Thai hospitals: More tests, more money? What is it all about?

[OneMoreFarang]

A few days ago, a friend woke up in the morning and he didn't feel well. He lives near Sukhumvit Soi 1, so he visited the big hospital in that Soi.

They diagnosed a possible stroke. Now he is there for 3 nights, and the bill is already over 1 million THB.

Luckily, he has a decent health insurance, and he feels alright.

But he gets the impression that they make every possible test to check this and that. And when they test a lot it's not surprising that they find things which are "not normal". So now they told him another diagnosis and to be sure they want to make some more test...

The bill is rising rapidly.

In a way it is obviously good when professional doctors check what is going on. And professional equipment and tests will help to find out what is going on.

But it is difficult not to get the impression that the hospital does lots of things which brings them a lot of money. Maybe necessary, and maybe not so necessary.

 

What is your impression with situations like that? When you or a friend was in a Thai hospital, did you get the impression they do a lot to make a lot of money? Or did you get the impression that they do their best to work in detail to find out exactly what is going on and treat it as perfect as possible.

Are some hospitals known to charge as much as they can? And others known to do only what is really necessary?

 

To avoid trouble, I won't name the hospital and not too many details about this case. You get the general idea. 

[Denim]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What is your impression with situations like that?

 

Seek and ye shall find. and this seems to be the case here. If they  are still only testing and not yet operating that bill sounds over the top to me. I would not use that hospital . I prefer somewhere less in the news.

[scubascuba3]

Definitely to make money rather than healthcare. They just see it as an opportunity not to be missed. Whereas a govt hospital would probably try and get you out ASAP

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What is your impression with situations like that?

I ask what tests they think I need and the costs.

Then I say no to anything expensive.

 

Can't think of any situation that needs MRIs ........ what did they do before they had MRI?

Blood tests, Ultrasound, X_ray all cheap around 250bht a go.

[Lacessit]

There is no way any hospital in Thailand can rack up 1 million baht in 3 days without considerable padding of the bills.

I only use the Thai medical profession for minor complaints, or for the initial stages of anything more serious. I go back to Australia, where I can get free treatment with top level private health cover.

For example, I have a urologist in Chiang Mai for routine checks. If I needed surgery, my urologist in Australia is far more qualified and experienced.

 

[scubascuba3]

As i said in another thread earlier today, a thai women's Thai Dad is in a Siracha hospital racking up 100k a day in ICU, it's in their interest to keep him alive as long as possible, in the meantime his lifesavings will be gone soon and the daughter left with no inheritance 

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I ask what tests they think I need and the costs.

Then I say no to anything expensive.

Would you do the same if you knew your insurance will pay it?

Because maybe they do some expensive test and find something which was not apparent with not such expensive tests.

In a way it's easy for us to say: They only want to charge more.

But then, some of us think: Do everything possible to find out what is the problem and "fix it".

Most of us just don't know what makes medially sense and what not. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Most of us just don't know what makes medially sense and what not. 

Most Thai doctors seem to have that same problem!

[Fat is a type of crazy]

You can ask questions but at some point you would have to cop it. Unless you can clearly see they are mucking you about let them do their thing. 

[Freed1948]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Most Thai doctors seem to have that same problem!

I would say a lot of rather than most.

[dingdongrb]

I was in a government hospital for 4 days. I went to the emergency room with nasty chest pains and was admitted into cardiac intensive care ward after being treated by a doctor and probably 4 or 5 assistants for 3 or 4 hours in the emergency room. 

 

On day 3 I went through the procedure of having a stent placed in my right pulmonary artery.

 

I received 8 different prescriptions on the day I was released.

 

Total bill = 163k THB

 

I was treated well and the doctor in charge spoke excellent English. The only complaint was the food.

[Furioso]

From what I've seen if a farang goes to a hospital for an emergency like this they will take the opportunity to gouge the sh!te out of them.  A million baht in just a few days? That's like the most expensive hospital in the entire world! 

 

 

[Bosse137]

I have told about this before,but I can add some details.My wife went to a wellknown hospital in khon kaen,hon hade insjuknat med COVID.After 3 days,she told me,that she couldn`t stay there any longerI will not go into those details,but I got them to let her out.But first we should wait for the doctor to see her,before we left.As she, up to that moment,still never had met the doctor,we didn`t wanted to see her,and we left.From the start,I had to pay 30ooo B as a garanti.If the bill would be lower,I would of course get the overshooting sum back.The bill came to 66000 B  !!!!Now to the question of tests.They charged us for 15 different tests !! Among others HIV...I also have to pay for 20 medicines !!! And a short stunt in IC room,where she did not get any special treatment.The reason given for the need of that room,was that they could connect her to some automatic maschin for taking bloodpreassure,which made the nurses job easier....All in all, the bill,on three A4 papers,has 466 different items !!!!I Guess if I will ever use that hospital again,or recommend it to my friends and family..

[MrMuddle]

They ask would you like this, that or the other test. If you say yes, it all goes on your bill. They see foreigners as a walking ATM!

[Kinnock]

I had a similar experience in another international hospital further up Sukhumvit.  Visited as a day patient for some minor surgery, had a good work insurance policy at the time. 

 

Doc kept asking me how I felt, asking about any other issues, I foolishly mentioned some lung surgery from years ago, and how Bangkok pollution can give me a cough.

 

I was whizzed in for an MRI, lung function tests, chest X Ray and they were booking a bed before I literally walked out in disgust.

 

They were clearly looking for ways to spend my insurance allowance.

 

In contrast, the same hospital the year before, treated my girlfriend (now wife) for a serious of case Dengue, all covered by my credit card. She watched them closely, and the bill was very reasonable.  Having insurance seems to be the trigger for a feeding frenzy.

[Gaccha]

Your friend chose Thailand's most expensive hospital. Soi 1 is Bumrumgrad; its name generates shivers in insurance conpany boardrooms. 

 

Clearly he did not simply sleep for three nights. He must have been in intensive care and a very difficult and challenging case. I would like to hear the breakdown of that price tag.

 

But still... why that much? Is your friend Arab-looking? 

[bob smith]

govt hospitals all the way. I personally wouldn't touch a private hospital out here with a 50ft pole.

 

They are would suck the water out of a stone them lot.

[Celsius]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Luckily, he has a decent health insurance,

 

I am willing to bet he doesn't anymore. 

[asf6]

Both government and private hospitals have their pros and cons. I've used both and will continue to do so depending on my need at any one time.

The biggest drawback of private hospitals is that they are, not surprisingly, more expensive than government hospitals. You will pay for everything they do and everything they use on you. They are a profit making business after all. The benefit of private hospitals is that you can often get to see a doctor more quickly that at a government hospital.

A lot depends on where you live and the choices of hospitals around you, and of course, what particular medical issues you have. Sometimes one is better or more convenient than the other.

[Presnock]

We regularly go to Bangkok Hospital Chiang Ma for whatever ails us.  I too have a great insurance

company but seldom use them as the cost locally is so insignificant.  Due to the pollution, my

daughter began getting an eye infection.  Last time she had one just about every burning season

that she was in school even though the school had air purifiers in every room.  However, she had to

walk outside between classes, and cafeteria but then they went to online due to the COVID situation

so for several years she had no problem.  Now she has graduated and at home but went to the mall

for a movie on Friday...duh!  Anyway, doctor check up and prescriptions was nothing but pocket change.

A couple of years ago, I had a belly button infection - most horrible odor I have ever experienced.  The

local pharmacists gave me an antibiotic plus hydrogen peroxide to wash my belly button every morning and night but that if it still had that odor after a couple of days then I should visit the doctor.  Went to the

same hospital.  Checked in visited with a doctor and after thoroughly checking my belly button, said the

odor wasn't so bad and I explained that I had been using x antibiotic and cleaning twice a day with hydrogen peroxide.  He said well there doesn't seem to be any problem now.  He said "no charge" but

if it returns, then we can explore further.  Compared to what they charge in the US for just the doctor

to say hi, we can be sure it is cheaper here.   It might depend on the hospital too.  But I am a satisfied

customer.  I have a lot of experience with US hospitals, my first wife died of breast cancer or I should

say was killed by one of the poisons they were giving her.  I know how much that 12 years of treatment

cost so don't complain about cost of treatment here.  Best of health to all so that you don't even have

to think about it.

 

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

22 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

Your friend chose Thailand's most expensive hospital. Soi 1 is Bumrumgrad; its name generates shivers in insurance conpany boardrooms. 

 

Clearly he did not simply sleep for three nights. He must have been in intensive care and a very difficult and challenging case. I would like to hear the breakdown of that price tag.

 

But still... why that much? Is your friend Arab-looking? 

It's the nearest hospital from where he lives.

He was at least on the first day and night in the ICU. Until now I don't know too many details because he is stressed enough with that situation, so I don't want to ask him questions which are currently not important.

I asked him about the hospital/insurance communication, and he told me the hospital asks the insurance before they do anything very expensive - so there is some verification going on in the background.

 

This case is just an example. I ask now because that came up now. But the idea about this thread is more about the general situation. It seems most of you think hospitals like to charge as much as they can.

It would be interesting to read @Sheryl ideas about the situation (in general). 

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, Celsius said:

I am willing to bet he doesn't anymore. 

Really? Health insurance can't just throw out a customer when the bill is high.

Of course they have conditions about how much they pay and under which conditions.

And about the 1 million THB. That's about 30,000 USD. Yes, it's money, but far away from real expensive for international health insurance. 

[300sd]

I had an MRI done at bkk hospital. Wanted a second opinion so went to the head specialist at this hospital on Soi 1 with the mri disc. He put it in his computer and told me it was not clear enough and I'd need another mri there. I took it up Sukumvit to Samitivej. A bright young specialist there read the disc and had no problem giving me that second opinion at a cost of 700 baht. I'll never be back to soi 1.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

When you or a friend was in a Thai hospital, did you get the impression they do a lot to make a lot of money? Or did you get the impression that they do their best to work in detail to find out exactly what is going on and treat it as perfect as possible.

I went to a Dr who thought I had the flu, gave me antibiotics, went back a week later as I was worse, gave me different antibiotics, went back a week later was worse, sent me to the government hospital for an x-ray and for them to put me on some oxygen as I was having trouble breathing. Was told to come back the next day to see specialist as they couldn't see anything wrong on the x-ray.

 

Went to the specialist the next day, did a breath test to see how much air I could blow out, for whatever reason, specialist said, all good, you are at the end of your flu, I said even though I am coughing up brown phlegm, yes yes, you should be fine.

 

Said to the wife, is there a private hospital around here, yes and hours drive, good, let's go, long of the short, saw the Dr there, he ordered a chest x-ray as I didn't have a copy of the one I did at the government hospital, he told me when I finished the chest x-ray to wait outside the specialists door, saw the specialist who said chest was clear, and wanted to order a sinus x-ray, which I agreed to, also showed nothing, the specialist could hear my wheezing and said that she is of the opinion that I had a severe chest infection and also noticed that my wind pipe had a narrowing and was inflamed, specialist went on to ask if I had been exposed to any mould lately and that is when the penny dropped.

 

I work from home, had a roof leak above my desk which I fixed 6 months ago, but this black mould appeared above my chair area, unbeknown to me that it was bad and of course I was exposed to the mould spores which I would have inhaled.

 

Was given antibiotics, a steroid puffer and was feeling great after an hour of taking both, my condition improved every single day from there on, had a weekly follow up, then a fortnight and then a month. 

 

1st bill was 4,000 baht including 2 x-rays, Dr and specialist and antibiotics and inhaler. 2nd week was less about 2,500 with specialist fee and drugs, 4th week just the specialists fee as we found the drugs cheaper outside the hospital and told her that my wife's cousin had a pharmacy and would sell them to us at cost, which she was fine about, and that was it, so to answer your question, specialist could have admitted me for observation as I was that crook, but didn't, so my experience in that private hospital was very good, and I have been to another for other things and found them to be very good, not looking to eye gouge me. 

 

I suppose it could go either way, especially if one has private cover, but I still have faith in the privates I have visited.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

There is no way any hospital in Thailand can rack up 1 million baht in 3 days without considerable padding of the bills.

 

 

Actually it is quite possible and not unusual.

 

Generally occurs when ICU care -- especially specialty ICU care --  and/or specialized  surgery is involved. 

 

As to OP's friend it is impossible to say anything without knowing the details. But the fact that additional tests led to a revision of diagnosis suggests they were necessary.

 

The hospital his friend is in, is quite expensive and care there does cost more than same care elsewhere. But I have not known them to do completely unnecessary tests and procedures just tomake more money. They do not need to. 

 

 

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

As i said in another thread earlier today, a thai women's Thai Dad is in a Siracha hospital racking up 100k a day in ICU, it's in their interest to keep him alive as long as possible, in the meantime his lifesavings will be gone soon and the daughter left with no inheritance 

Which hospital in Sriracha ?

 

I assume Samitvej and not Phayathai as I just spent 6 weeks in ICU (Phayathai) and saw the final bill sent to social security.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Definitely to make money rather than healthcare. They just see it as an opportunity not to be missed. Whereas a govt hospital would probably try and get you out ASAP

I recall a time here - perhaps 20 + years ago - when medical/healthcare/hospitalization cost were quite nominal across the board [private or govt] and generally extended to Thai citizens and foreign residents, where reasonable top quality of practice and care were the norm. 

 

A different world today. Over the last couple of decades, it's all dramatically changed for the worst. Especially, as applying to unnecessary costs towards everything/anything associated. Today's Thai medical and healthcare is beginning to resemble an American mirror of profit over well being........where everything is outta sight and not affordable for everyday folks - native or foreign. 

 

Fortunately still, there is the standing [Thaksin's] plan for locals, as well as extended care for those who are long time government employees with the automatic health packages/insurance. 

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Which hospital in Sriracha ?

 

I assume Samitvej and not Phayathai as I just spent 6 weeks in ICU (Phayathai) and saw the final bill sent to social security.

ICU care costs vary greatly depending on the care required.  Someone on a ventilator will cost vastly more than someone not. 

[spidermike007]

Both Bumrungrad and Bangkok Hospital are famous for being very overpriced and running alot of tests and procedures. I only use them on rare occasion. 

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

ICU care costs vary greatly depending on the care required.  Someone on a ventilator will cost vastly more than someone not. 

Yes he's on a ventilator