Florida House passes 6-week abortion ban, expected to be signed by governor

[heybruce]

40 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Women say abortion none of men's business.

 

Here are the definitions of the word, "you"

 

1.

used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing.

"are you listening?"

2.

used to refer to any person in general.

"after a while, you get used to it"

 

Which way do you think it was it used in my sentence? (Hint: I wasn't talking about you specifically, obviously)

"Women say abortion none of men's business."

 

I agree with them.  I would be happy to let women decide for themselves the abortion issue without "help" from men.  They have much more at stake and know the issue in a way no man ever can.

 

However this topic is about a law denying women that right.  That is everybody's business.

 

Regarding your second comment--when your post is vague, expect people to ask for clarification.

[heybruce]

44 minutes ago, 2009 said:

 

Unless she's at high risk of health complications, where's the burden of pregnancy?

 

Having a big belly? Having a large belly for a few months? Is that it?

 

By deadlock, you mean there's one parent who wants the child?

 

That's easy: the child is born and the parent who wants the child, raises the child.

 

The other parent pays child support, obviously, in an ideal world.

"Unless she's at high risk of health complications, where's the burden of pregnancy?"

 

Seriously?  If you were passing a kidney stone the size of a melon, wouldn't you consider that a burden?

 

"The other parent pays child support, obviously, in an ideal world."

 

But we don't live in an ideal world, do we?  Treating it as if it were is idiotic.

[heybruce]

36 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I have, in fact.

 

I get that there's morning sickness, weird cravings, waddling around with a big belly.

 

Really not much different from being a fat guy with a bit of a hangover.

 

But look, if you have sex and get pregnant it's a natural consequence. And there's nothing wrong with it.

 

Also, I am sure you know many women get abortions because they don't wants to be mothers at that time, not because they don't want to be pregnant for a few months.

 

And there's nothing wrong with an abortion if there's no father willing to raise the child present to object, or if she's a high risk for complications, obviously.

"Really not much different from being a fat guy with a bit of a hangover."

 

How about a fat guy with a hangover waking up next to a barfly with mental issues who is now pregnant with his baby?  That sort of thing does happen. 

 

If the fat guy did a runner, would you deny the woman the choice of an abortion?  Both are equally responsible, but only one is forced to deal with the consequences.

Edited April 15, 2023 by heybruce

[2009]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

"Unless she's at high risk of health complications, where's the burden of pregnancy?"

 

Seriously?  If you were passing a kidney stone the size of a melon, wouldn't you consider that a burden?

 

"The other parent pays child support, obviously, in an ideal world."

 

But we don't live in an ideal world, do we?  Treating it as if it were is idiotic.

In case you hadn't noticed women's bodies are supposed to be able to give birth. The birthing canal opens up wide to accommodate.

 

Their ain't trying to squeeze a kidney stone through their urethra, lol

 

Right now, in most western countries, it is an ideal world for women:

 

- Get pregnant and have an abortion, no questions asked, easy peasy, like going to get a tooth out.

 

- Or have the baby and get child support. Even when a woman commits statutory rape the minor has to pay child support when he comes of age, lol.

 

It's a perfect world for them. They just don't want to lose an ounce of privilege. That's what this is all about.

[2009]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

If the fat guy did a runner, would you deny the woman the choice of an abortion?  Both are equally responsible, but only one is forced to deal with the consequences.

I've already said if a father is present he should have a say numerous times.

 

Try reading.

 

I am not against abortion altogether 

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, 2009 said:

In case you hadn't noticed women's bodies are supposed to be able to give birth. The birthing canal opens up wide to accommodate.

 

Their ain't trying to squeeze a kidney stone through their urethra, lol

 

Right now, in most western countries, it is an ideal world for women:

 

- Get pregnant and have an abortion, no questions asked, easy peasy, like going to get a tooth out.

 

- Or have the baby and get child support. Even when a woman commits statutory rape the minor has to pay child support when he comes of age, lol.

 

It's a perfect world for them. They just don't want to lose an ounce of privilege. That's what this is all about.

If pregnancy is no big deal, why is the woman more than ten times as likely to die during pregnancy than by having an abortion?  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/

 

It doesn't seem child support is as easy to achieve as you think.  https://www.aecf.org/blog/only-1-in-4-single-mother-families-receive-child-support

 

"It's a perfect world for them."

 

Are you really that clueless?

 

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I've already said if a father is present he should have a say numerous times.

 

Try reading.

 

I am not against abortion altogether 

If the father is present he should have an input.  If he's really keen on the women having the baby he should pull out all stops in terms of financial and other commitments to persuade her to do so.  However the women, who bears the burden and risk of pregnancy, should have the final say.

 

What if the father isn't present?  This topic is about denying women abortions after six weeks of pregnancy.  Many women don't know they are pregnant after six weeks.

[TKDfella]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

I suspect you're preparing some sort of rhetorical nonsense since the meaning is obvious. But to gratify you, here it is: a pregnancy unwanted by a pregnant woman.

Nothing rhetorical about it. But you have done precisely as I thought you would simply one sided. What about the father? It takes the two people to produce and the father can be just as irresponsible about his actions as can the mother. My earlier comments are not aimed at just women but men too...

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Nothing rhetorical about it. But you have done precisely as I thought you would simply one sided. What about the father? It takes the two people to produce and the father can be just as irresponsible about his actions as can the mother. My earlier comments are not aimed at just women but men too...

Well, I see that your goal is laying blame. And that some sort of moral offense has been committed if an abortion is the upshot.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, 2009 said:

In case you hadn't noticed women's bodies are supposed to be able to give birth. The birthing canal opens up wide to accommodate.

 

Their ain't trying to squeeze a kidney stone through their urethra, lol

 

Right now, in most western countries, it is an ideal world for women:

 

- Get pregnant and have an abortion, no questions asked, easy peasy, like going to get a tooth out.

 

- Or have the baby and get child support. Even when a woman commits statutory rape the minor has to pay child support when he comes of age, lol.

 

It's a perfect world for them. They just don't want to lose an ounce of privilege. That's what this is all about.

In fact, childbirth is completely painless!

[2009]

30 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In fact, childbirth is completely painless!

Yup, that's actually what the ex said.

 

In hospital 20 mins then our kid popped out. No joke. I couldn't believe how quickly it was over.

 

No epidural or any other painkillers. 

 

She took it in her stride. Which was surprising cos she's one of these skinny Thai women with a 26 inch waist and weighs just a little over 40 kilo.

 

I know in the movies they make it look like a terrible ordeal, but I've only witnessed it once and it was nothing like in the movies 

 

Perhaps, it's worse for other women. Maybe my ex got it easy.

 

Aside from that, I am not sure your argument makes sense.

 

Childbirth not being the most enjoyable thing on Earth isn't a great argument for abortion being so easy and accessable. 

 

I think abortion is okay, but it should be more regulated and I don't think everyone is entitled to an abortion.

 

You made a baby, you gotta be responsible.

[placeholder]

Just now, 2009 said:

Yup, that's actually what the ex said.

 

In hospital 20 mins then our kid popped out. No joke. I couldn't believe how quickly it was over.

 

No epidural or any other painkillers. 

 

She took it in her stride. Which was surprising cos she's one of these skinny Thai women with a 26 inch waist and weighs just a little over 40 kilo.

 

I know in the movies they make it look like a terrible ordeal, but I've only witnessed it once and it was nothing like in the movies 

 

Perhaps, it's worse for other women. Maybe my ex got it easy.

 

Aside from that, I am not sure your argument makes sense.

 

Childbirth not being the most enjoyable thing on Earth isn't a great argument for abortion being so easy and accessable. 

 

I think abortion is okay, but it should be more regulated and I don't think everyone is entitled to an abortion.

 

You made a baby, you gotta be responsible.

"Perhaps, it's worse for other women. Maybe my ex got it easy."

This is laughable.

 

How about you made a fetus. It's up to you.

 

 

[2009]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

"Perhaps, it's worse for other women. Maybe my ex got it easy."

This is laughable.

 

How about you made a fetus. It's up to you.

 

 

I don't really get what your trying to say here.

 

It's not very coherent.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I don't really get what your trying to say here.

 

It's not very coherent.

In the first case i quoted you and you don't get how laughable your claim is that because your wife gave birth in 20 minutes, and that childbirth is not a prolonged and painful experience. You know, you could actually look this stuff up before you make such outlandish claims.

It too me literally less than minute to find this:

 

"The average labor lasts 12 to 24 hours for a first birth and is typically shorter (eight to 10 hours) for other births. Throughout this time, you'll experience three stages of labor. The first stage of labor is usually the longest and it ranges from when you first go into labor until your cervix is open."

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/9676-labor-delivery

 

Women’s experience of pain during childbirth

Labor pain is one of the most severe pains which has ever evaluated and its fear is one of the reasons women wouldn’t go for natural delivery. Considering different factors which affect experiencing pain, this study aimed to explain women’s experiences of pain during childbirth.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093177/

 

And my second comment was obviously directed at this comment of yours:

"You made a baby, you gotta be responsible."

 

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Yup, that's actually what the ex said.

 

In hospital 20 mins then our kid popped out. No joke. I couldn't believe how quickly it was over.

 

No epidural or any other painkillers. 

 

She took it in her stride. Which was surprising cos she's one of these skinny Thai women with a 26 inch waist and weighs just a little over 40 kilo.

 

I know in the movies they make it look like a terrible ordeal, but I've only witnessed it once and it was nothing like in the movies 

 

Perhaps, it's worse for other women. Maybe my ex got it easy.

 

Aside from that, I am not sure your argument makes sense.

 

Childbirth not being the most enjoyable thing on Earth isn't a great argument for abortion being so easy and accessable. 

 

I think abortion is okay, but it should be more regulated and I don't think everyone is entitled to an abortion.

 

You made a baby, you gotta be responsible.

Isn't she the lucky one, not being one of the unfortunate 85% who during having a natural childbirth suffer from either a tear or need a episiotomy cut to make the opening wider. Then in the US there's the other 50,000 a year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — endure dangerous and even life-threatening complications that often leave them wounded, weakened, traumatized.

[TKDfella]

On 4/15/2023 at 4:50 PM, placeholder said:

Well, I see that your goal is laying blame. And that some sort of moral offense has been committed if an abortion is the upshot.

Ha ha, blame??? Moral??? It's about men and women taking responsibility for their actions. Abortionists want to shirk their responsibilities and get the state to endorse it. It was you who laying the blame on women and I called you out on that. Take responsibility for your mistake and move on. 

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Ha ha, blame??? Moral??? It's about men and women taking responsibility for their actions. Abortionists want to shirk their responsibilities and get the state to endorse it. It was you who laying the blame on women and I called you out on that. Take responsibility for your mistake and move on. 

And why isn't getting an abortion taking responsibility for your actions? Not punitive enough?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, placeholder said:

Well, women most likely to be prevented from getting an abortion by abortion laws in places like florida will be single and poor.

Does them being single and poor mean they don't understand the link between sex and pregnancy?

If not, then they chose to do something that made them pregnant, or they were raped. If they were raped I agree they should be able to have an abortion.

If they chose to have sex without contraception, then that's on them.

How about taking responsibility for their actions and not creating something that requires killing an unborn human.

Lets stop talking about a foetus as if it's a malignant tumour, and call it what it is, an unborn human person.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Does them being single and poor mean they don't understand the link between sex and pregnancy?

If not, then they chose to do something that made them pregnant, or they were raped. If they were raped I agree they should be able to have an abortion.

If they chose to have sex without contraception, then that's on them.

How about taking responsibility for their actions and not creating something that requires killing an unborn human.

Lets stop talking about a foetus as if it's a malignant tumour, and call it what it is, an unborn human person.

The fetus does not achieve "human person" until it has a brain capable of consciousness.  That doesn't happen until the third trimester.  Until then it has the potential to become a person, which is significant.  I'm sure all women contemplating an abortion consider this potential and weigh it against the impact to the rest of that woman's life.  Few women make that choice lightly, but it should be their choice.

[TKDfella]

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

And why isn't getting an abortion taking responsibility for your actions? Not punitive enough?

My comments already answer that...but here you go again back on the 'one side' the person who is pregnant. I haven't mentioned any form of punishment but you obviously equate taking responsibility for one's action with punishment. Sad.

[TKDfella]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

The fetus does not achieve "human person" until it has a brain capable of consciousness.  That doesn't happen until the third trimester.  Until then it has the potential to become a person, which is significant.  I'm sure all women contemplating an abortion consider this potential and weigh it against the impact to the rest of that woman's life.  Few women make that choice lightly, but it should be their choice.

You give a balanced answer. I would agree that whatever is the scientific determination of 'human being' then an abortion prior to that could not classified as 'murder'. However, I would take the stance that a fetus prior to the 'human stage' still possesses life, that is, the fetus is alive and should be allowed to develop. 

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, TKDfella said:

You give a balanced answer. I would agree that whatever is the scientific determination of 'human being' then an abortion prior to that could not classified as 'murder'. However, I would take the stance that a fetus prior to the 'human stage' still possesses life, that is, the fetus is alive and should be allowed to develop. 

You think the life of a non-sentient assemblage of cells takes priority over the life of the woman carrying them.  I disagree.

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, TKDfella said:

My comments already answer that...but here you go again back on the 'one side' the person who is pregnant. I haven't mentioned any form of punishment but you obviously equate taking responsibility for one's action with punishment. Sad.

No, your comments don't answer why getting an abortion isn't taking responsibility. It just answers why you think abortion is wrong. There's a difference.

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Does them being single and poor mean they don't understand the link between sex and pregnancy?

If not, then they chose to do something that made them pregnant, or they were raped. If they were raped I agree they should be able to have an abortion.

If they chose to have sex without contraception, then that's on them.

How about taking responsibility for their actions and not creating something that requires killing an unborn human.

Lets stop talking about a foetus as if it's a malignant tumour, and call it what it is, an unborn human person.

No, let's stop calling it an unborn human person and start calling it what it is: a fetus. My comment is no more less dispositive than yours.But, like so many others, you equate taking responsibility with giving birth rather than having an abortion.

What's more, your doublethink is readily apparent. Because a woman has been raped, that gives her the right to kill an "unborn human person"? So, sometimes, murdering babies to your way of thinking is permissible?

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, heybruce said:

The fetus does not achieve "human person" until it has a brain capable of consciousness.  That doesn't happen until the third trimester.  Until then it has the potential to become a person, which is significant.  I'm sure all women contemplating an abortion consider this potential and weigh it against the impact to the rest of that woman's life.  Few women make that choice lightly, but it should be their choice.

Using words doesn't change the fact that a foetus is a potential human being.

 

If women considered that and weighed it against the impact of creating a potential human being they don't want, they would do something to prevent it happening. Because they apparently don't do that, I think they don't consider it much at all.

We don't live in a world without contraceptive options.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Using words doesn't change the fact that a foetus is a potential human being.

 

If women considered that and weighed it against the impact of creating a potential human being they don't want, they would do something to prevent it happening. Because they apparently don't do that, I think they don't consider it much at all.

We don't live in a world without contraceptive options.

Big difference between an unborn human as you claimed earlier a fetus is and a potential human being as you're stating now a fetus is.

[bamnutsak]

It is interesting that Gov. DeSantis signed this bill privately and quietly; and announced that late on a Friday evening. Seems weird not to sign this at a big event with a lot of coverage. Seems like he might realize he's out of touch? He'll get shellacked in NH.

 

Top Republican donor sours on Florida governor’s stance on social issues
Thomas Peterffy highlights actions of Ron DeSantis on abortion and book banning and warns against courting far-right

https://www.ft.com/content/9fa26170-5533-4e0b-a852-238b0ef15118

 

Ron DeSantis quietly signs Florida's 6-week abortion ban into law
The governor had no fanfare around the bill-signing, sending out a news release late in the night.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-signs-6-week-abortion-ban-law-florida-rcna78989

 

I do understand that he was away from the state, not campaigning for president, during which time parts of South Florida experienced severe flooding.

 

DeSantis slammed for out-of-state politicking amid Fort Lauderdale flooding

TALLAHASSEE — While the heavily Democratic city of Fort Lauderdale was dealing with historic flooding Thursday morning, Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis was having breakfast with members of the Summit County, Ohio, Republican Party.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-ohio-fort-lauderdale-timeline-20230414-4xf4jh5u7vb5lmrwwkr5igpqzq-story.html

 

Now he's back to waging war on Walt Disney Corp. because, well, because he's petty, insecure and has little in the way of solutions to real problems facing Americans.

 

DeSantis floats idea of state prison near Disney park

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has floated the idea of building a prison near Disney's Florida theme park.

The threat, made smiling, came as he vowed to take new steps to assert state control over the special district that oversees the media giant's property.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65305166

 

 

 

Maybe get back to the real work of banning books, attacking the vulnerable and relocating immigrants from Texas to Massachussetts?

 

And I do love the Vogue cover of Rhonda Santis, or as the Trump PAC ad calls him, "ole pudding fingers".

 

 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Using words doesn't change the fact that a foetus is a potential human being.

 

If women considered that and weighed it against the impact of creating a potential human being they don't want, they would do something to prevent it happening. Because they apparently don't do that, I think they don't consider it much at all.

We don't live in a world without contraceptive options.

"We don't live in a world without contraceptive options."

 

Apparently you live in a world in which sex only happens between responsible, informed, consenting adults.  One in which birth control is always available and never fails.  A world in which circumstances (job loss, relationship break-up, death...) never happens after conception.

 

For those who live in the real world it's important to have abortion as a last ditch option.

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"We don't live in a world without contraceptive options."

 

Apparently you live in a world in which sex only happens between responsible, informed, consenting adults.  One in which birth control is always available and never fails.  A world in which circumstances (job loss, relationship break-up, death...) never happens after conception.

 

For those who live in the real world it's important to have abortion as a last ditch option.

Why stop there though , should make it legal to kill your children, if you don't want them anymore .

   What difference does a few months make ?

[bamnutsak]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Why stop there though , should make it legal to kill your children,

Maybe not "legal" but certainly possible...

 

 

Stoneman Douglas High School shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shooting

 

And more recently...

 

White homeowner accused of shooting Black teen who went to the wrong house in Kansas City will face 2 felony charges, officials announce

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/17/us/kansas-city-teen-shot-wrong-house/index.html

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by bamnutsak