Incoming tourism growth slows amid visas, airfares and attacks on Chinese nationals which have caused jitters

[GinBoy2]

Maybe I might tick a few folks off, but isn't it time to just admit the truth.

 

Thailand isn't, and  never will be St Tropez, Hawaii and just come to terms with the fact it's a mid level, at times scummy vacation destination and go for that.

 

So who do you attract if that's the reality?

 

Well it's going to be the Chinese, may not be what the Western members of this forum want to hear, but thats reality in a nutshell.

 

The 'quality tourist' is some pie in the sky concept that looks great on a PowerPoint presentation, but so far from life on the street.

 

So as far as I can seen, roll on the Chinese hoards 

[renaissanc]

Maybe the hot weather is a reason too. Who wants to travel around in 40+ degrees Celcius? 

[CM Dad]

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Yeah. We have so many things to blame the decimation of the tourism industry on. And the lack of a recovery. 

 

Now, with some of the worst air on the planet, maybe word is getting around? Maybe selling out to Big Agra was not such a great idea? Maybe not holding the pathological (the very definition of behaving in such a way that destroys lives, to make a bit of cash) rice and sugar farmers to account is not good for tourism and the nation? 

Not just rice and sugar cane but the contract farming of corn that has taken over the Northern part of the country by the large Thai corporation whose name never seems to be mentioned...

[itsari]

9 hours ago, atpeace said:

In this yesteryear you mentioned there wasn't "Toxic air, hazardous death trap drivers and driving conditions, scams, regular coups, endless junta government, tourist area raids, overpricing, dual pricing and gouging, ludicrous alcohol hours".  

 

IMO most the above conditions have improved and some drastically but I do miss the pre 2000's.  The country was an adventure and now it is starting to resemble the west more and more.  Tourism now, even its reduced level, is bringing multiples of what it did 20 years ago.  No going back but sure wish it was an option.

A many years to go before even getting near the west .

Just come back from taking a motorcycle test .  That experience gives me the confidence to say that.

 

[3NUMBAS]

higher air fares are crimping tourism so its claimed

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

You’d do well to check out the huge losses made by airlines /oil companies and many others during the pandemic. "They always pass on all the financial losses to the public" . Would you like to qualify that with proper examples,because that’s just ill informed economic illiteracy. Shareholders may take a hit but you’ll find most companies pricing is governed by supply and demand. 
Perhaps you think communism is a more successful model ..? 

To hell with the greedy shareholders, and I am no communist.

[Chongalulu]

16 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

To hell with the greedy shareholders, and I am no communist.

You do understand that shareholders are primarily pension schemes,one of which is likely yours ? … of course you don’t ,you have no economic literacy at all… ????‍♂️ 

[John Drake]

54 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thailand isn't, and  never will be St Tropez, Hawaii and just come to terms with the fact

A one room shack costs half a million dollars in Hawaii. And the traffic is horrible. But at least the air and beaches are clean. And no bums. I think they export them all to San Francisco. So Thailand would be okay, if I just didn't need a gas mask to breathe the air.

[nigelforbes]

So much over reaction in this thread.

 

Chiang Mai and the North are going through an extended burning season and it's lousy, no question. In time however, this too shall pass, this year is so much worse because last year was so wet and so little burning was done. By next month, all things being equal, the rains will have arrived and we can expect excellent weather until next February. In time, prices will become more normal but they will never be as low as they were, live with it and move on. Meanwhile, more and more tourists will arrive and yes, they wont be Brits and Americans, they will be mostly Asian and Chinese, this is their back yard, what did you expect! Burnley and Akron await those that don't like that scenario.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

You do understand that shareholders are primarily pension schemes,one of which is likely yours ? … of course you don’t ,you have no economic literacy at all… ????‍♂️ 

And you have???? This debate is over. Now run along.

[racket]

Just wait until the recession hits! 

[Gknrd]

2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

So much over reaction in this thread.

 

Chiang Mai and the North are going through an extended burning season and it's lousy, no question. In time however, this too shall pass, this year is so much worse because last year was so wet and so little burning was done. By next month, all things being equal, the rains will have arrived and we can expect excellent weather until next February. In time, prices will become more normal but they will never be as low as they were, live with it and move on. Meanwhile, more and more tourists will arrive and yes, they wont be Brits and Americans, they will be mostly Asian and Chinese, this is their back yard, what did you expect! Burnley and Akron await those that don't like that scenario.

That is very true, I hate to admit it but it is the future for Thailand. As an expat from the US I would never call Thailand home. For me it is a shi$ hole but for China and others it is paridise.

[Selatan]

11 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Tourism here in Thailand is 75% dependent on regional tourists, not the people back home. Prices here are lower than in China or Malaysia which is why it's an attractive destination for them.

Prices in Thailand used to be cheap for us, Malaysians, but not for many years already. Prices alone do not deter us from visiting other countries. It's all about how attractive in terms of scenery, culture and food to many of us.

 

Although some of us are attracted to the nightlife, generally speaking, most of the ethnic Chinese like me that I know, are not interested in that. The ethnic Malays, who have all sorts of religious restrictions imposed on them, may go there for the nightlife, but again, generally speaking, most ethnic Malays are also not interested in that too.

[Fairynuff]

14 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Not really surprised that April is a lower month for international arrivals from all countries.  Guess what, May just might be a low month for international arrivals as well.  However, it's not all doom and gloom.  I predict that in November and December there will be an uptick in international arrivals.  

Have you sent your CV to TAT yet? You’ve got the job, start Monday.

[Fairynuff]

11 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

That is very true, I hate to admit it but it is the future for Thailand. As an expat from the US I would never call Thailand home. For me it is a shi$ hole but for China and others it is paridise.

I have called Thailand home for a long time. As for your country, well I think your description of Thailand fits it quite well.

[nigelforbes]

10 minutes ago, Selatan said:

Prices in Thailand used to be cheap for us, Malaysians, but not for many years already. Prices alone do not deter us from visiting other countries. It's all about how attractive in terms of scenery, culture and food to many of us.

 

Although some of us are attracted to the nightlife, generally speaking, most of the ethnic Chinese like me that I know, are not interested in that. The ethnic Malays, who have all sorts of religious restrictions imposed on them, may go there for the nightlife, but again, generally speaking, most ethnic Malays are also not interested in that too.

Hmm, interesting.

 

I'm sure you probably know and understand this better than me but some of what you have written is very confusing. For example, in 2022, Malaysians were the most prolific visitors to Thailand. I also know from first hand experience that Hat Yai airport sees more Malaysian travellers than any other nationality, including Thai's. I would expect that Malays visiting Thailand do not represent a majority of the population so it may be that we are both correct....dunno.

 

"Malaysian visitors ranked first among international arrivals at 1.95 million last year, followed by tourists from India at 997,913 and 614,627 from Singapore, according to official data".

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-24/thailand-welcomes-most-foreign-visitors-since-start-of-covid#:~:text=Malaysians%2C Indians lead tourist rush to Thailand in 2022&text=Malaysian visitors ranked first among,Singapore%2C according to official data.

[Selatan]

6 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Hmm, interesting.

 

I'm sure you probably know and understand this better than me but some of what you have written is very confusing. For example, in 2022, Malaysians were the most prolific visitors to Thailand. I also know from first hand experience that Hat Yai airport sees more Malaysian travellers than any other nationality, including Thai's. I would expect that Malays visiting Thailand do not represent a majority of the population so it may be that we are both correct....dunno.

 

"Malaysian visitors ranked first among international arrivals at 1.95 million last year, followed by tourists from India at 997,913 and 614,627 from Singapore, according to official data".

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-24/thailand-welcomes-most-foreign-visitors-since-start-of-covid#:~:text=Malaysians%2C Indians lead tourist rush to Thailand in 2022&text=Malaysian visitors ranked first among,Singapore%2C according to official data.

Hat Yai is a popular destination for those Malaysians who live in the northern states of Penang, Perak, Kedah and Perlis. Most of them arrive by road though. Most of the ethnic Chinese that I know, go there for the food and shopping. 

For Kuala Lumpur residents, Bangkok, Phuket and Chiang Mai are their favourite Thai destinations, not Hat Yai.

[Pdavies99]

As ever the figures are a myth, I flew last week with Emirates, the flight was code-sharing with Thai and another.

 

Guess what....the rear half of the seating was closed off, ie no passengers.

 

Overpriced flights and they are unable to fill them,  so the Airlines share a flight, suggesting they are busy.

 

They should get real and start some competitive prices, they forget life etc is harder for all nowadays.

 

[NanLaew]

China, China, China, China.... can't they get their heads around the fact that these masses of Chinese tourists are just a myth created by TAT? The myth is only being recycled in unproven claims made by similarly witless local tourism mouthpeices and regurgitated on local media.

[bignok]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Any downturn is great news IMO. Might save a few places from the fate of Maya Bay.

Last time I visited the White Temple the horde of tourists was horrible. I didn't bother staying it was so bad.

 

Can we at least hope for tourists that don't destroy the environment by sheer weight of numbers?

Low numbers in Mukdahan, Nakhon Si Thammarat.

[bignok]

6 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

IMHO the main reason why Bangkok has never rebounded in terms of tourism is the wet blanket 2am closing times. That changed the whole nightlife experience that used to be here in the past, and hurts tourism significantly. Bangkok is not getting repeat tourism as a result. I know many guys who used to come several times a year but now they won't return because it's boring for them.

Phuket fares a little better because they close later - but Phuket is it's own **** show and having to deal with hordes of annoying drunk tourists and shisha smoke everywhere is a terrible experience.

Pattaya is trying to commit tourism-harakiri lately by raiding establishments and conducting drug tests on innocent people - ruining their night in the process. The end result is simple - less tourists. I was supposed to go to Pattaya today - cancelled my trip.

Chiang Mai is air pollution central - 'nuff said.

Add to that price increases across the board, increase in taxi and other scams, viral bad news like kidnappings and raids, and the list goes on.

The last year+ was fueled by young people who were desperate to travel, but now that they've scratched that itch already, world economy and inflation woes, and higher airfare prices - many will not return as often. This was completely predictable.

At least the good news is that once tourist numbers are down, prices and attitudes will get back down to earth too.

Such a positive review.

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, CM Dad said:

Not just rice and sugar cane but the contract farming of corn that has taken over the Northern part of the country by the large Thai corporation whose name never seems to be mentioned...

You mean Corruption Personified? 

[nigelforbes]

12 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

 

At least the good news is that once tourist numbers are down, prices and attitudes will get back down to earth too.

Don't count on prices falling, that tends not to happen here.

[nigelforbes]

8 hours ago, Selatan said:

Hat Yai is a popular destination for those Malaysians who live in the northern states of Penang, Perak, Kedah and Perlis. Most of them arrive by road though. Most of the ethnic Chinese that I know, go there for the food and shopping. 

For Kuala Lumpur residents, Bangkok, Phuket and Chiang Mai are their favourite Thai destinations, not Hat Yai.

I don't have figures for land crossings at the Malay/Thai border but inbound international air passenger traffic into Hat Yai airport historically is dominated by Malay and Singaporeans, top outbound destinations are, as you say, Bangkok.

 

https://www.airportthai.co.th/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Annual-Airport-2018.pdf

 

 

 

 

[arick]

When are the Chinese airlines going to start flying again? 

[spidermike007]

On 4/24/2023 at 3:23 PM, Captor said:

Who want to visit a country with children with that heavy air pollution? Western news have start to write about it now. It has also been in TV.

The leadership does not know how to deal with media, nor the proliferation of social media. It has them lost in space. They are out of their element. They are dinosaurs. They are no longer able to hide their dirty secrets, nor their putrid laundry. 

 

You cannot spin bad air. You can blame it on the neighbors. You can blame it on things outside of your control. But, that does not improve the air. The excuses are no match for solutions, and action performed by real men. 

[nigelforbes]

12 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The leadership does not know how to deal with media, nor the proliferation of social media. It has them lost in space. They are out of their element. They are dinosaurs. They are no longer able to hide their dirty secrets, nor their putrid laundry. 

 

You cannot spin bad air. You can blame it on the neighbors. You can blame it on things outside of your control. But, that does not improve the air. The excuses are no match for solutions, and action performed by real men. 

Give the Thai bashing a rest, it gets old, day after day after day, every aspect of Thailand. Try posting something positive for once, just once.

[Dan O]

There are a lot more issues involved in the lower tourist numbers. People not having the extra cash from the covid period, Higher than normal airfaire cost. Inflation across the globe, the corruption at every corner of the government with no end in site and no real action taken. The continued shakedown of tourist by officials in all corners, continued abductions and extortion of tourists by Chinese. Grey business' Sanction by officials for fees to approve tgem. The excess influx of Russians avoiding war and agovernment I'll prepared for annual seasonal problems spanning decades, ie: air pollution and annual flooding. The list goes on and it's ALL extremely visible with the expansion of social media so when people can see these conditions in the news daily why bring your family here fora vacation whe. There are so. Any other stable available places to visit? 

[jacko45k]

Good, perhaps we cam have a reactively quiet low season like years gone by.......mind you 6000 rampant sailors just got in!

[atpeace]

14 hours ago, itsari said:

A many years to go before even getting near the west .

Just come back from taking a motorcycle test .  That experience gives me the confidence to say that.

 

I assume you are stating that it is easy here?  I motorcycle license in the USA is much more time consuming, expensive, and difficult.  probably why it is much saver to be on the roads in the USA.  I came here for the adventure and with that comes with health risks as far as Thailand is concerned.  The pollution has improved IMO and the driving has gotten worse because of the exponential growth in car ownership and lack of infrastructure.  It seems that thousands are sharing a road that can handle a fraction of the drivers.  It is anarchy!