How US debt ceiling became game of political chicken

[Social Media]

This is a critical week for negotiations on raising the debt ceiling, as the US may default as soon as 1 June if the limit is not raised by Congress before then.

On Tuesday, Joe Biden and the House and Senate leaders of both parties will meet in the White House to discuss this impending economic crisis of their own making.

As early as next month, the US government could reach the legal cap on the national debt. This means that the federal treasury will be unable to borrow additional funds. It will exhaust the money it has to spend on everything from existing debt payments to government salaries and retirement payments to the elderly.

Congress could vote to raise the debt limit at any point, but Republicans in the legislature only want to do so if they can extract policy concessions from Mr Biden and the Democrats. The president and his allies, however, have so far refused to engage in what they consider to be a negotiation conducted under the threat of economic ruin.

[Tug]

Come on republicans stand up for your leaders debt you guys stuck us with,now it seems they are ready to wreck the economy in an attempt to give the democrats a black eye that’s utterly depraved to wreck the economy on purpose 

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There is a strong argument, based on a clause in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, that imposing a ceiling on the debt may be unconstitutional:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/amendment-14/section-4/#:~:text=Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection and Other Rights&text=The validity of the public,rebellion%2C shall not be questioned.

[Berkshire]

I don't think most people--especially Republicans--understand the full impact.  Not just those getting gov benefits, e.g., social security, fed/mil retirement, medicaid, etc., but the stock market will crash.  As will the dollar.  Your 401Ks will be decimated.  And this is just for starters.   

 

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

Seems to me we have heard this all before- the panic, the vituperation, the sputtering...

 

And on the last day miraculously a deal is reached.  Speaker McCarthy to his credit was able to pass a debt bill with a full month to go before the limit. This somewhat deflated the Democrats who were ready to blame the GOP for waiting until the last minute.  

[JimmerJJ]

Anyone want to venture a guess on what this will do to the exchange rate if it's not raised?  I've been loading up on THB for the past few months just in case.

 

Like others on here I think there is a strong argument made for invoking the 14th amendment as discussed by Lawrence Tribe, Harvard Professor on Constitutional Law. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/opinion/debt-limit.html

 

The thing is if you cave to the GOP and it gets kicked down the road a year what will they ask for next time like 'we want all the the seditionists freed' or some other nonsense.

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, JimmerJJ said:

Anyone want to venture a guess on what this will do to the exchange rate if it's not raised?  I've been loading up on THB for the past few months just in case.

 

Like others on here I think there is a strong argument made for invoking the 14th amendment as discussed by Lawrence Tribe, Harvard Professor on Constitutional Law. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/opinion/debt-limit.html

 

The thing is if you cave to the GOP and it gets kicked down the road a year what will they ask for next time like 'we want all the the seditionists freed' or some other nonsense.

if you cave "to the GOP" what gets kicked down the road a year?

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52 minutes ago, nauseus said:

if you cave "to the GOP" what gets kicked down the road a year?

For one thing, increased IRS funding. For years the Republicans have been starving the IRS of funding in order to protect the wealthy. Part of the bill Biden got passed last year funed increased enforcement of the tax laws since there is rampant tax evasion going on on the part of the wealthy. It's explicitly part of the GOP's plan to stop funding this. Which only goes to show the utter falseness of their alleged concern about the deficit.

[onthedarkside]

Trolling post removed

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

For one thing, increased IRS funding. For years the Republicans have been starving the IRS of funding in order to protect the wealthy. Part of the bill Biden got passed last year funed increased enforcement of the tax laws since there is rampant tax evasion going on on the part of the wealthy. It's explicitly part of the GOP's plan to stop funding this. Which only goes to show the utter falseness of their alleged concern about the deficit.

C'mon man. You're not explicitly demonstrating anything here. 

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39 minutes ago, nauseus said:

C'mon man. You're not explicitly demonstrating anything here. 

Really?  I've demonstrated that the Republicans aren't sincere about deficits. And also explicitly answered your question about what gets kicked down a year. And you've demonstrated that you've got nothing.

Edited May 10, 2023 by placeholder

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

Really?  I've demonstrated that the Republicans aren't sincere about deficits. And also explicitly answered your question about what gets kicked down a year. And you've demonstrated that you've got nothing.

Your claims haven't shown a thing. No evidence. Nothing.

[JimmerJJ]

Last Thursday, prior to Biden's and McCarthy's meeting, Durbin provided Newsweek the following answer when asked whether Biden should consider using his constitutional authority to raise the debt ceiling:

"I'm open to suggestions about how to end the suicide pact on the debt limit."

 

Perfect answer to our self-inflicted hostage crisis. If need be invoke the 14th.

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30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Your claims haven't shown a thing. No evidence. Nothing.

You want evidence to justify my claim about the hypocrisy of the GOP? Here ya go!

 

Here’s what’s in the GOP bill to lift the U.S. debt limit

House Republicans began their tenure in the majority by passing a bill that would rescind nearly $71 billion that Congress is providing the IRS to upgrade its technology and boost hiring. They have included the same proposal in their debt limit bill...

The CBO has said that rescinding the IRS money actually would increase deficits by more about $120 billion over the coming decade due to the impact on the agency’s work

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/heres-whats-in-the-gop-bill-to-lift-the-u-s-debt-limit

Edited May 11, 2023 by placeholder

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

You want evidence to justify my claim about the hypocrisy of the GOP? Here ya go!

 

Here’s what’s in the GOP bill to lift the U.S. debt limit

House Republicans began their tenure in the majority by passing a bill that would rescind nearly $71 billion that Congress is providing the IRS to upgrade its technology and boost hiring. They have included the same proposal in their debt limit bill...

The CBO has said that rescinding the IRS money actually would increase deficits by more about $120 billion over the coming decade due to the impact on the agency’s work

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/heres-whats-in-the-gop-bill-to-lift-the-u-s-debt-limit

The CBO says? Just another federal department likely to be as hopeless as the rest seem to be now. These extra 87,000 agents are likely to cost at least as much as the 120 billion over 10 years anyway.  

Edited May 11, 2023 by nauseus

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50 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The CBO says? Just another federal department likely to be as hopeless as the rest seem to be now. These extra 87,000 agents are likely to cost at least as much as the 120 billion over 10 years anyway.  

In fact, the CBO's estimate of how much income for how much income the IRS funding can raise is less than the Biden administration's.

CBO Estimates $120 Billion from IRS Funding Boost

Today, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) published an estimate of the revenue effects of President Biden’s proposal to increase Internal Revenue Service (IRS) funding by $80 billion over ten years in an attempt to reduce the tax gap and improve tax compliance.

According to CBO, the President’s proposed $80 billion increase in IRS funding (with roughly $60 billion for tax enforcement) would yield approximately $200 billion of additional revenue over a decade, or $120 billion of net savings. This is about half the $240 billion of savings estimated by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in the President’s budget, which projected $320 billion in additional revenue.

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/cbo-estimates-120-billion-irs-funding-boost

 

And there's this from the Marxists at Fox News:

Biden touted CBO as 'gold standard' – now his White House is trying to undermine it
Nonpartisan CBO impartially studies economic impact of legislation

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-touted-cbo-as-gold-standard-now-his-white-house-is-trying-to-undermine-it

 

This is your idea of bias? Until you can provide evidence that the CBO is biased, you've got nothing. 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

In fact, the CBO's estimate of how much income for how much income the IRS funding can raise is less than the Biden administration's.

CBO Estimates $120 Billion from IRS Funding Boost

Today, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) published an estimate of the revenue effects of President Biden’s proposal to increase Internal Revenue Service (IRS) funding by $80 billion over ten years in an attempt to reduce the tax gap and improve tax compliance.

According to CBO, the President’s proposed $80 billion increase in IRS funding (with roughly $60 billion for tax enforcement) would yield approximately $200 billion of additional revenue over a decade, or $120 billion of net savings. This is about half the $240 billion of savings estimated by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in the President’s budget, which projected $320 billion in additional revenue.

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/cbo-estimates-120-billion-irs-funding-boost

 

And there's this from the Marxists at Fox News:

Biden touted CBO as 'gold standard' – now his White House is trying to undermine it
Nonpartisan CBO impartially studies economic impact of legislation

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-touted-cbo-as-gold-standard-now-his-white-house-is-trying-to-undermine-it

 

This is your idea of bias? Until you can provide evidence that the CBO is biased, you've got nothing. 

Marxists at Fox News? Hilarious.

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4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Marxists at Fox News? Hilarious.

Thanks for not appreciating the point of the joke which of course undermines your baseless point about the CBO being biased. Even Fox News recognizes that isn't the case.

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for not appreciating the point of the joke which of course undermines your baseless point about the CBO being biased. Even Fox News recognizes that isn't the case.

Picking out your 'jokes' is impossible. They only become so when it suits you.

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7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Picking out your 'jokes' is impossible. They only become so when it suits you.

Even if it was not possible for you to see that my comments about the "Marxists at Fox News" concede that the CBO is nonpartisan, it's utterly irrelevant to the fact that Fox News reports that the CBO is nonpartisan. Which is clearly the case since it strongly challenged Biden's numbers about what net revenue could be expected from the increased funding of the IRS. You're the one who accused the CBO of biased based on nothing at all. And you've still got nothing.

[Jingthing]

The republican party the party led by fascist trump is not fit to govern.

[Pink Mist]

A troll post attacking another poster has been reported and removed.

 

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[nauseus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Even if it was not possible for you to see that my comments about the "Marxists at Fox News" concede that the CBO is nonpartisan, it's utterly irrelevant to the fact that Fox News reports that the CBO is nonpartisan. Which is clearly the case since it strongly challenged Biden's numbers about what net revenue could be expected from the increased funding of the IRS. You're the one who accused the CBO of biased based on nothing at all. And you've still got nothing.

What I have got is a record of you misquoting me. I said the CBO was hopeless, not biased.

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

What I have got is a record of you misquoting me. I said the CBO was hopeless, not biased.

NIce try. Maybe if you had started with correction it would be believable. And what makes your point even more ridiculous is that not even Republicans claim that it wouldn't pay for itself. Their claim is that the increased funding would be used to go after middle class people. Because, ya know, the Democrats want to commit electoral suicide.