I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped Rowan Atkinson

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1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

So, you agree there are comments specific to UK?

 

Something you denied earlier.

Yes those 2 comments are specific to the uk.

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1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

So, you agree there are comments specific to UK?

 

Something you denied earlier.

And I guess I really can't hold you to account since you ascribed your evidence in this threat to an alleged scrap dealer, who apparently gave you information sometime before 2014 when rules were established for battery disposal in the UK. What made you think such "evidence", if the unconfirmable information you provided can be dignified with that word, would be relevant?

[Yellowtail]

33 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Let me help you with the math. It looks like china's electricity growth has been about 5% per year for at least 10 years. From 2017 to 2020 China's total rate of increase was about 5%.

Yet as the chart below shows, the growth in wind power alone for those years was 16%. Actually that growth rate continued through 2022).

 

 

https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/power-and-utilities/power-generation-and-cumulative-capacity-of-wind-power-plants-in-china-2017-2021/

So how long would it take for wind power alone to account for 50% of power generates.. It looks like in 2020 a total of 400 TW hours were generated by wind. At the rate of 16%, in  23 years the total electricity generated by wind would come to about 12500 TW hours.  In the meantime, at the 5% rate of increase, total power production starting at 7500 TW hours would rise to just slightly more than 23,000 TW hours

Now maybe to your way of thinking 23 years is approximately 10,000 years. Not to mine.

And I'm not even including solar in my calculations.

 

Wow, that higher math is impressive. Now do the MW to TW unit conversion.... 

[mikebike]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:54 AM, Denim said:

When these lithium batteries are done , how will they be disposed of...

When they are done their intense lifecyle in cars the batteries are still usable as mass storage on grids. They ARE NOT trash after a decade or so.

 

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2023/02/07/2602939/0/en/B2U-Storage-Solutions-Announces-25MWh-of-Second-Life-EV-Battery-Capacity-is-Operational-at-its-Hybrid-Solar-Storage-Facility-in-Lancaster-CA.html

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39 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Wow, that higher math is impressive. Now do the MW to TW unit conversion.... 

Given your claim of 10,000 years, I'm not surprised that you consider this "higher math".

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24 minutes ago, mikebike said:

When they are done their intense lifecyle in cars the batteries are still usable as mass storage on grids. They ARE NOT trash after a decade or so.

 

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2023/02/07/2602939/0/en/B2U-Storage-Solutions-Announces-25MWh-of-Second-Life-EV-Battery-Capacity-is-Operational-at-its-Hybrid-Solar-Storage-Facility-in-Lancaster-CA.html

And ultimately they can and are being recycled. In fact, the lithium carbonate recycled from batteries actually can perform better than the newly mined and refined mineral.

Recycled Lithium-Ion Batteries Can Perform Better Than New Ones

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/recycled-lithium-ion-batteries-can-perform-better-than-new-ones/#:~:text=The researchers found that batteries,last longer and charge faster.

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Given your claim of 10,000 years, I'm not surprised that you consider this "higher math".

Figure out that unit conversion yet? Thought not, carry on. 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And ultimately they can and are being recycled. In fact, the lithium carbonate recycled from batteries actually can perform better than the newly mined and refined mineral.

Recycled Lithium-Ion Batteries Can Perform Better Than New Ones

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/recycled-lithium-ion-batteries-can-perform-better-than-new-ones/#:~:text=The researchers found that batteries,last longer and charge faster.

But were not all the lithium-ion batteries going to be replaced the new sulfur technology that was in SA last month? 

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16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But were not all the lithium-ion batteries going to be replaced the new sulfur technology that was in SA last month? 

No

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

But were not all the lithium-ion batteries going to be replaced the new sulfur technology that was in SA last month? 

I think it's going to be quite some time, 5 yrs or more, before something is mass produced, to compete, priced competitively, to push LFP batteries off the market.  Especially in the warmer countries.

 

For AN forum members, hope you're not waiting for all that new tech to be available before buying, if considering, as with some of our ages, we may not be here, or half way to the other side, and not get much of a ROI, for any new toys.  Along with those incentive disappearing.

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

And I guess I really can't hold you to account since you ascribed your evidence in this threat to an alleged scrap dealer, who apparently gave you information sometime before 2014 when rules were established for battery disposal in the UK. What made you think such "evidence", if the unconfirmable information you provided can be dignified with that word, would be relevant?

No. You are making things up again. 

 

That is not what I said. 

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1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. You are making things up again. 

 

That is not what I said. 

You keep on saying that it's not what you said even after I offer quotes. But you never reply with evidence of what you said. All you offer is empty denialism.

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You keep on saying that it's not what you said even after I offer quotes. But you never reply with evidence of what you said. All you offer is empty denialism.

I posted what I was told.

 

I even suggested that if processes are changing to make things easier in UK, that is a good thing.

 

I've mentioned nothing about batteries or 2014. You made that up.

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20 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I posted what I was told.

 

I even suggested that if processes are changing to make things easier in UK, that is a good thing.

 

I've mentioned nothing about batteries or 2014. You made that up.

You posted what you allege you were told.

And it's not a matter of "if processes are changing" they already have changed. They changed in 2014 when the govt issued a set of rules about how to treat batteries.

And as the papers I've cited show, contrary to your claims that EV's are left to rot, that is not the case. No reason to ship them to Poland or anywhere else. 

And I mentioned 2014 because either your alleged conversation with this scrap dealer occurred 10 years ago, or he was full of B.S., or the conversation never occurred.

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You posted what you allege you were told.

And it's not a matter of "if processes are changing" they already have changed. They changed in 2014 when the govt issued a set of rules about how to treat batteries.

And as the papers I've cited show, contrary to your claims that EV's are left to rot, that is not the case. No reason to ship them to Poland or anywhere else. 

And I mentioned 2014 because either your alleged conversation with this scrap dealer occurred 10 years ago, or he was full of B.S., or the conversation never occurred.

 

A contradiction on your views as to how people should conduct themselves with regards to other posters. Quite intriguing.

[SunnyinBangrak]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:20 AM, placeholder said:

Your comment about EV's being essentially coal powered would make some sense if, in fact, coal provided the majority of power. Is that the case in the UK? Is it the case in the EU? Is it the case in the developed world? Even in China the percentage of power provided by coal is falling. In fact, China is leading the world by far in the installation of new renewable sources.

And as for what's coming down the pipeline, overwhelmingly it's renewables In fact over the next five years, renewables will account for over 90% of all new power generation

https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-power-s-growth-is-being-turbocharged-as-countries-seek-to-strengthen-energy-security

 

 

to achieve such dominance they will have to work on the safety aspect. I wonder, do they factor in all these fires in the emissions caused by EV's? Bet they don't and to my eyes it looks like a whole lotta smoke, and at least one body. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12338705/One-sailor-dead-23-evacuated-burning-18-500-tonne-cargo-ship-carrying-3-000-cars-North-Sea-Holland-electric-vehicle-caught-fire.html