In reality, Thailand is not the LGBTQ+ paradise like it pretends to be

[webfact]

June is when we celebrate Pride Month worldwide, and of course, many businesses change their profile photos to be rainbows for a month. Some brands would launch a new product serving in all rainbow colours. We’d talk about LGBTQ+ for a bit and once June has passed, everything goes back to normal like Pride Month was just one of those marketing campaigns Lazada does once a month for their 3.3, 4.4, 5.5, 6.6, and so on.

 

Just like democracy in this country, the LGBTQ+ rights are also just illusional (well, at least there’s hope for our democratic system right now). You may think that Thailand seems like the sweetest paradise when it comes to being an LGBTQ+ person, but under this rainbow surface, the country has yet to officially pass any regulations for all gender inclusive.

 

Thailand’s reputation as an LGBT-friendly haven stems from its historical tolerance and acceptance of gender diversity. We have embraced our transgender community who are visible in various social and cultural spheres.

 

By Choltanutkun Tun-atiruj

 

Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/49933/in-reality-thailand-is-not-the-lgbtq-paradise-like-it-pretends-to-be/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2023-06-12

 

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[kingstonkid]

I think Thailand is ahead of most Western countries in many ways.  The main thing is acceptance and the realization on both sides that it exists and is part of society.  

 

There are still hurdles but over all the stigmas and crap that happens or happened in the Western world have passed Thailand by.

 

Kaitoey's are accepted and working in many areas of main stream Thailand. 

 

The Kaitoey life still and clubs/bars are more prevalent.

 

However, as we all know there are many things about the way Thailand as a country has operated that need to be addressed properly in a democratic means.  

 

Equality for 3rd gender people for a legal form of marriage or legal status as a couple is just one of the things along with 

Better education

end of corruption

legalization of prostitution

The Mary Jane question

minimum wage

and a host of other things that have to be looked at in order of priority.

 

But the worst thing that could happen is for Thai 3rd gender to start acting like those in the west.

[Goat]

The government might not have passed any laws but most people dont bat an eyelid when seeing a Ladyboy, Tomboy, dee, gay king, gay queen. 

A lot of countries they would be harrassed in the streets, some people would want to bash them and in some others it is illegal.

 

In the western world there seems to be an obsession with trans despite hardly ever seeing any in day to day life.

Thais are more sensible and live and let live and dont get triggered by some people who are a bit different to the norm.

 

Good people the Thais.

[OneMoreFarang]

21 minutes ago, webfact said:

June is when we celebrate Pride Month worldwide,

Maybe you celebrate it. Many of us don't do that.

 

LBGTQ+/- whatever can live just like everybody else. Walk on the streets, go shopping, go to restaurants and bars, enjoy life. What is it that these LBGTQ+/- whatever cannot do?

 

It seems the main problem is in their perception. If you think all the time that you are suppressed than don't be surprised that you feel suppressed. Just live your life, don't take everything around you too serious, and all will be fine. 

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The Mary Jane question

What is the Mary Jane question?

Is it like the Nit or Noi question? Which one should I take out tonight?

[Jingthing]

Definitely not a LGBTQ paradise. 

But well short of throwing people off buildings.

The Thai LGBTQ civil rights movement is now working hard to bring about equality.

[ikke1959]

Thailand and the LGBTQ community is strange... One one hand it seems accepted, but it is not at all.. Gay men marry because they now they are not accepted as Gay in their live/work/family. Ladyboys pretend to be girls for the same reasons often. Yes there is no violence against these people, but they are not accepted too. If Thailand was a leader there should be a legal relationship possible for many years already, but there is still although many years promised still nothing for these people. Question is why?? Why tolerant but why no acceptance/education and or support?? 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand and the LGBTQ community is strange... One one hand it seems accepted, but it is not at all.. Gay men marry because they now they are not accepted as Gay in their live/work/family. Ladyboys pretend to be girls for the same reasons often. Yes there is no violence against these people, but they are not accepted too. If Thailand was a leader there should be a legal relationship possible for many years already, but there is still although many years promised still nothing for these people. Question is why?? Why tolerant but why no acceptance/education and or support?? 

F-rangs tend to be fooled by superficial stuff.

[bignok]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Definitely not a LGBTQ paradise. 

But well short of throwing people off buildings.

The Thai LGBTQ civil rights movement is now working hard to bring about equality.

It is miles ahead of the west. Gays and ladyboys everywhere. Big parades outside shopping centres. A whole month of this. 

[bignok]

9 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand and the LGBTQ community is strange... One one hand it seems accepted, but it is not at all.. Gay men marry because they now they are not accepted as Gay in their live/work/family. Ladyboys pretend to be girls for the same reasons often. Yes there is no violence against these people, but they are not accepted too. If Thailand was a leader there should be a legal relationship possible for many years already, but there is still although many years promised still nothing for these people. Question is why?? Why tolerant but why no acceptance/education and or support?? 

Gay marriage is not allowed in Thailand. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, bignok said:

It is miles ahead of the west. Gays and ladyboys everywhere. Big parades outside shopping centres. A whole month of this. 

On some things. 

Not on others.

[FruitPudding]

39 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you celebrate it. Many of us don't do that.

 

LBGTQ+/- whatever can live just like everybody else. Walk on the streets, go shopping, go to restaurants and bars, enjoy life. What is it that these LBGTQ+/- whatever cannot do?

 

It seems the main problem is in their perception. If you think all the time that you are suppressed than don't be surprised that you feel suppressed. Just live your life, don't take everything around you too serious, and all will be fine. 

Having an entire month dedicated to you worldwide is often a sign of oppression. ????

[JonnyF]

37 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you celebrate it. Many of us don't do that.

Exactly. I am a fairly liberal person (in the classic sense of the word, not the politcially hijacked sense) but I feel no need to celebrate it.

 

I have no issue with LBGT or whatever. Each to their own. But I have no desire to celebrate people being gay any more than celebrating they are straight, Catholic, short, thin, black, blonde, freckled or whatever.

 

Perhaps if they stopped drawing attention to their differences they would just fit in more easily and be more readily accepted. Of course, it appears that being treated as normal is the last thing many of these people want. They want to be the centre of attention, special, to be celebrated, admired. Hence the parades where they dance around half naked flaunting their sexuality, often in front of children.

[bignok]

3 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Having an entire month dedicated to you worldwide is often a sign of oppression. ????

Homeless people are oppressed. No month for them.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Having an entire month dedicated to you worldwide is often a sign of oppression. ????

Pride is about LGBT freedom and civil rights.

Even in the most advanced nations LGBT people still face homophobia even from their own families and certainly from religions.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Exactly. I am a fairly liberal person (in the classic sense of the word, not the politcially hijacked sense) but I feel no need to celebrate it.

 

I have no issue with LBGT or whatever. Each to their own. But I have no desire to celebrate people being gay any more than celebrating they are straight, Catholic, short, thin, black, blonde, freckled or whatever.

 

Perhaps if they stopped drawing attention to their differences they would just fit in more easily and be more readily accepted. Of course, it appears that being treated as normal is the last thing many of these people want. They want to be the centre of attention, special, to be celebrated, admired. Hence the parades where they dance around half naked flaunting their sexuality, often in front of children.

These people.

Started off nice.

Ended with a rant 

[FruitPudding]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Pride is about LGBT freedom and civil rights.

Don't they have full civil rights in many countries already?

 

I don't think you can change the whole world, unfortunately. You think North Korea or Pakistan will ever come on board?

 

Even before gay marriage was legalized in many Western countries, two men could already be in a legal civil union and get the legal benefits of that, just like a man and a woman.

 

What more benefits do you get from marriage than a civil partnership doesn't offer?

 

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Even in the most advanced nations LGBT people still face homophobia even from their own families and certainly from religions.

Look, there are always gonna be people who don't like blacks, Christians, gays, straight white men, Asians, Muslims, Americans, etc. etc.

 

Realistically, it will never be gone 100% and we all have certain groups that dislike us for who we are.

[JonnyF]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

These people.

Started off nice.

Ended with a rant 

The whole post was spot on.

 

The fact it highlights some issues you would rather not accept doesn't make it a rant.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

The whole post was spot on.

 

The fact it highlights some issues you would rather not accept doesn't make it a rant.

I read a hostile rant.

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I read a hostile rant.

Sometimes we don't see things are they are, but as we are.

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Don't they have full civil rights in many countries already?

 

I don't think you can change the whole world, unfortunately. You think North Korea or Pakistan will ever come on board?

 

Even before gay marriage was legalized in many Western countries, two men could already be in a legal civil union and get the legal benefits of that, just like a man and a woman.

 

What more benefits do you get from marriage than a civil partnership doesn't offer?

 

Look, there are always gonna be people who don't like blacks, Christians, gays, straight white men, Asians, Muslims, Americans, etc. etc.

 

Realistically, it will never be gone 100% and we all have certain groups that dislike us for who we are.

There are not many countries with full legal equality.

It's not only about marriage. 

In the US the legal situation is going backwards rapidly thanks to the maga fascists.

Hate crimes on the increase as well.

The civil union vs  marriage debate is ancient history in most places so won't dignify it.

It's true other groups face hate crimes 

Other groups may have ways of expressing themselves such as Black History month.

Other groups don't face what is very often a trauma and crisis with family, friends, co-workers etc. called COMING OUT.

Pride is especially meaningful to people facing difficult coming out experiences. 

People are often forced out before its safe for them.

Pride developed directly from the Stonewall riots.

It is now a major International cultural political phenomenon.

 

 

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Sometimes we don't see things are they are, but as we are.

Best we just agree to disagree.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Goat said:

The government might not have passed any laws but most people dont bat an eyelid when seeing a Ladyboy, Tomboy, dee, gay king, gay queen. 

A lot of countries they would be harrassed in the streets, some people would want to bash them and in some others it is illegal.

 

In the western world there seems to be an obsession with trans despite hardly ever seeing any in day to day life.

Thais are more sensible and live and let live and dont get triggered by some people who are a bit different to the norm.

 

Good people the Thais.

Don't know if already mentioned, but I think it comes down to their religious/Buddhist teaching, of live & let live.

 

Considering the draconic Christian & Islam faiths, not surprising things are a bit better here for all things, including alternative lifestyles from those other 2 religions consider normal.

 

A very good thing, freedom to exercise your lifestyle, whatever you chose that to be ????

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Don't know if already mentioned, but I think it comes down to their religious/Buddhist teaching, of live & let live.

 

Considering the draconic Christian & Islam faiths, not surprising things are a bit better here for all things, including alternative lifestyles from those other 2 religions consider normal.

 

A very good thing, freedom to exercise your lifestyle, whatever you chose that to be ????

 

I'm not very interested in religions including Buddhism but maybe someone knowledgeable can answer. Is it true that many Thai Buddhists believe being gay or transgender is punishment for misdeeds in past lives?

[timendres]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not very interested in religions including Buddhism but maybe someone knowledgeable can answer. Is it true that many Thai Buddhists believe being gay or transgender is punishment for misdeeds in past lives?

I have never heard that expressed by any of my Thai friends or employees. But that is a very small and skewed sample.

 

Followup: I just asked this specific question of a close friend. His simple answer: "Nope"

Edited June 12, 2023 by timendres

[FruitPudding]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

In the US the legal situation is going backwards rapidly

Such as?

 

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

Other groups don't face what is very often a trauma and crisis with family, friends, co-workers etc. called COMING OUT.

Well, at least it's easier to tell your family you are gay, compared with telling them you support Trump, ????

 

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It is now a major International cultural political phenomenon.

Not sure if I have the freedom of speech to say this here, but some consider it to be a cult.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, ikke1959 said:

If Thailand was a leader there should be a legal relationship possible for many years already, but there is still although many years promised still nothing for these people. Question is why?? Why tolerant but why no acceptance/education and or support?? 

I don't know the official reasons from Thai politicians and Thai people. I am sure many people have many different opinions.

 

It seems some (most) activist want that LBGTQ+/- are treated exactly like male/female couples. And that is something many of us don't support.

Personally I think they should have something like a legal partnership with rights to make decisions if one of them is in hospital. Or inheritance laws.

What I don't want is that same sex couple can adopt children because I think that is, in general, not good for the children.

Some rights are fine. Treating them as if they are 100% the same doesn't make sense, because they are not 100% the same. 

 

 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand and the LGBTQ community is strange... One one hand it seems accepted, but it is not at all.. Gay men marry because they now they are not accepted as Gay in their live/work/family. Ladyboys pretend to be girls for the same reasons often. Yes there is no violence against these people, but they are not accepted too. If Thailand was a leader there should be a legal relationship possible for many years already, but there is still although many years promised still nothing for these people. Question is why?? Why tolerant but why no acceptance/education and or support?? 

Not accepted? Do you know how many gay people have their own shows and appear in so many soapies on TV?

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

On some things. 

Not on others.

What others?

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Exactly. I am a fairly liberal person (in the classic sense of the word, not the politcially hijacked sense) but I feel no need to celebrate it.

 

I have no issue with LBGT or whatever. Each to their own. But I have no desire to celebrate people being gay any more than celebrating they are straight, Catholic, short, thin, black, blonde, freckled or whatever.

 

Perhaps if they stopped drawing attention to their differences they would just fit in more easily and be more readily accepted. Of course, it appears that being treated as normal is the last thing many of these people want. They want to be the centre of attention, special, to be celebrated, admired. Hence the parades where they dance around half naked flaunting their sexuality, often in front of children.

Would you agree that older gays can remember when things weren't free at all. That in many countries it remains that way. That in western countries there are a fair few that are against gay relationships but much less than before. So though gay rights may seem ho hum it's not exactly the same as thin or blonde people rights. It has not been plain sailing so let them have their day in the sun. 

Gays as a whole may celebrate a bit differently but most gays are boring and normal as seen by some on this site. If the parents are not happy with kids seeing the parade it is there responsibility to take them away. Do you really want a generic world where everyone is the same and celebrates the same.