Antony Blinken arrives in Beijing - becoming first top US diplomat to visit China in five years

[Social Media]

Antony Blinken arrives in Beijing - becoming first top US diplomat to visit China in five years

 

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has arrived in Beijing.

His arrival marks the first visit of a top American diplomat to China in five years, as relations between the two countries have become increasingly frosty.

 

Having postponed a February trip after a suspected Chinese spy balloon flew over US airspace, Mr Blinken is set to become the highest-ranking US government official to visit China since President Joe Biden took office in January 2021.

During his trip, he is expected to meet with Chinese Foreign Minister Qin Gang, China's top diplomat Wang Yi and possibly President Xi Jinping.

The aim of the visit is to establish open and robust communication channels between Washington and Beijing, and to ensure the American/Chinese strategic rivalry does not spiral into conflict.

 

 

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[RichardColeman]

LOL - guy must be a true fool - 1. China is spying openly on the USA, 2. about to destroy its currency forever with Brics and 3. threatening a over Taiwan.

 

1. His visit will not stop it.

2. His visit will not prevent it 

3. USA would not risk a world war to prevent it.

 

If ever there was a fools errand this is it.

[Tug]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

LOL - guy must be a true fool - 1. China is spying openly on the USA, 2. about to destroy its currency forever with Brics and 3. threatening a over Taiwan.

 

1. His visit will not stop it.

2. His visit will not prevent it 

3. USA would not risk a world war to prevent it.

 

If ever there was a fools errand this is it.

Yea we might as well nuke ourselves (sarcasm alert) nice to see how  optimistic you are I hope it bears fruit although expectations aren’t high

[Cory1848]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

LOL - guy must be a true fool - 1. China is spying openly on the USA, 2. about to destroy its currency forever with Brics and 3. threatening a over Taiwan.

 

1. His visit will not stop it.

2. His visit will not prevent it 

3. USA would not risk a world war to prevent it.

 

If ever there was a fools errand this is it.

Whatever comes of the visit, it seems to me that having a channel of communication is better than not having a channel of communication.

 

As for BRICS, I’m no economist, but I’m also not much for conspiracy theories. A common BRICS currency seems far off. And if it occurred, what current currencies would be backing it? The rupee (meh); the Brazilian real and South African rand (really?); the ruble (I don’t think you want rubles); and the renminbi. And while the latter may be interesting as an alternative reserve currency, it is entirely controlled by the Chinese Communist Party and thus is vulnerable to political calculations. The Federal Reserve in the US is at least theoretically an independent agency (although subject to oversight).

 

And even then, so what? The dollar became the world’s primary reserve currency after Bretton Woods in 1944, supplanting the pound sterling, which had held that status for 150 years prior. And what’s happened to the pound since then? It’s still good, isn’t it? Frankly, I’d rather have pounds in the bank than renminbi.

[Hanaguma]

I guess he is going to try and clean up the mess left by his boss this week.  Blinken for his faults is no fool. By contrast, here is what Joe said regarding the spy balloon that was seen earlier this year;

 

“I don’t think the leadership knew where it was and knew what was in it and knew what was going on,” the president told reporters before heading to Philadelphia. “It was, I think it was more embarrassing than it was intentional.”

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4055470-biden-on-chinese-spy-balloon-embarrassing/

 

What a maroon.  Of course it was intentional. It was an overt act of espionage and would not have happened without clearance from the highest levels.   Biden gains nothing by being soft like this. 

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

LOL - guy must be a true fool - 1. China is spying openly on the USA, 2. about to destroy its currency forever with Brics and 3. threatening a over Taiwan.

 

1.  Everyone spies on everyone, and you certainly wouldn't use balloons to do that...IMHO

2. Not in CH's interest, since they hold part of the public debt***

3. mute subject, 'One China', neither the USA nor UN recognizes Taiwan as an independent country.  Just something to rattle the sabers at for increased defense contractor budgets... IMHO

 

***  https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/05/the-federal-government-has-borrowed-trillions-but-who-owns-all-that-debt#:~:text=Investors in Japan and China,purchases of U.S. Treasury securities.

Edited June 19, 2023 by KhunLA

[John Drake]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I guess he is going to try and clean up the mess left by his boss this week.  Blinken for his faults is no fool. By contrast, here is what Joe said regarding the spy balloon that was seen earlier this year;

 

“I don’t think the leadership knew where it was and knew what was in it and knew what was going on,” the president told reporters before heading to Philadelphia. “It was, I think it was more embarrassing than it was intentional.”

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4055470-biden-on-chinese-spy-balloon-embarrassing/

 

What a maroon.  Of course it was intentional. It was an overt act of espionage and would not have happened without clearance from the highest levels.   Biden gains nothing by being soft like this. 

God Save Mao Zedong, man!

[Social Media]

 

[Tug]

15 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I guess he is going to try and clean up the mess left by his boss this week.  Blinken for his faults is no fool. By contrast, here is what Joe said regarding the spy balloon that was seen earlier this year;

 

“I don’t think the leadership knew where it was and knew what was in it and knew what was going on,” the president told reporters before heading to Philadelphia. “It was, I think it was more embarrassing than it was intentional.”

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4055470-biden-on-chinese-spy-balloon-embarrassing/

 

What a maroon.  Of course it was intentional. It was an overt act of espionage and would not have happened without clearance from the highest levels.   Biden gains nothing by being soft like this. 

I don’t think (Biden) is trying to (gain) anything now if you are trying to say the USA will gain nothing I hope you are mistaken hopefully more open communication and could you be more specific as to what (mess) President Biden left in China ?otherwise I’ll just chalk it up to another spurious attack against Biden and the USA 

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, Tug said:

I don’t think (Biden) is trying to (gain) anything now if you are trying to say the USA will gain nothing I hope you are mistaken hopefully more open communication and could you be more specific as to what (mess) President Biden left in China ?otherwise I’ll just chalk it up to another spurious attack against Biden and the USA 

Thought it was obvious, the mess of the whole spy balloon saga. Letting China violate American sovereignty with no reprecussions. Then prevaricating on the severity of it, and absolving the leadership of the CPC of blame.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Thought it was obvious, the mess of the whole spy balloon saga. Letting China violate American sovereignty with no reprecussions. Then prevaricating on the severity of it, and absolving the leadership of the CPC of blame.

Should have sent in the B1's?

[Tug]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Thought it was obvious, the mess of the whole spy balloon saga. Letting China violate American sovereignty with no reprecussions. Then prevaricating on the severity of it, and absolving the leadership of the CPC of blame.

And what pray tell do you think the proper response should have been?

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Should have sent in the B1's?

Shoot it down over Alaska (if not sooner), not let it transverse all of North America.

Upon learning the origin, immediate economic sanctions. 

Immediate recognition of Taiwan as an independent country, followed by a treaty of mutual defence (along with Japan and other Asian nations).

[Cory1848]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Shoot it down over Alaska (if not sooner), not let it transverse all of North America.

Upon learning the origin, immediate economic sanctions. 

Immediate recognition of Taiwan as an independent country, followed by a treaty of mutual defence (along with Japan and other Asian nations).

On shooting down the balloon, I’ve read good arguments that the US actually learned a fair amount about the balloon itself by letting it sail overhead for awhile, and at the same time prevented it from gathering much useful information.

 

As for recognizing Taiwanese independence, while I agree with you that Taiwan ought to be a fully recognized, independent nation, with membership in the UN and other international bodies, simply because that’s what most people who actually live on that island want, a unilateral declaration on the part of the US at this moment would lead directly to a shooting war (over a balloon?), which would be disastrous for all. Plus, neither Japan nor anyone else in the region would be on board with this.

 

I agree, one loses patience with decades of “diplomacy” that seems to lead nowhere. But there have been no calamitous wars, the people in Taiwan have been living freely and prosperously, and this balance has somehow been maintained for almost 70 years. As long as this remains the case, I think we have to continue to wait it out.

[John Drake]

3 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

I agree, one loses patience with decades of “diplomacy” that seems to lead nowhere. But there have been no calamitous wars, the people in Taiwan have been living freely and prosperously, and this balance has somehow been maintained for almost 70 years. As long as this remains the case, I think we have to continue to wait it out.

Balance has not been maintained. Seventy years ago, China was a peasant society suffering from famine whose navy couldn't challenge a row boat. Today, thanks to diplomacy and US offshoring, China threatens and takes what it wants. That's what diplomacy got.

[Hanaguma]

13 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Balance has not been maintained. Seventy years ago, China was a peasant society suffering from famine whose navy couldn't challenge a row boat. Today, thanks to diplomacy and US offshoring, China threatens and takes what it wants. That's what diplomacy got.

True,all based on the mistaken and arrogant belief that a rich China would become a more democratic China. So the US and others believed.  Now we are stuck up sh!t creek with very few viable options.  At least China doesn't have the ability to project power outside of Asia...yet. But they are getting there.  

[scottiejohn]

11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

At least China doesn't have the ability to project power outside of Asia...yet. But they are getting there.  

If you mean they do not have WMD then you are wrong!

They already have them;

The People's Republic of China has developed and possesses weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and nuclear weapons. The first of China's nuclear weapons tests took place in 1964,[1] and its first hydrogen bomb test occurred in 1967 at Lop Nur. Tests continued until 1996.

China and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia

 

If you are talking Political and financial power projection outside of Asia they have plenty;

The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI, or B&R[1]), known within China as the One Belt One Road is a global infrastructure development strategy adopted by the Chinese government in 2013 to invest in more than 150 countries and international organizations. It is considered a centerpiece of the Chinese leader Xi Jinping's foreign policy

 

Belt and Road Initiative - Wikipedia

[Hanaguma]

27 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

If you mean they do not have WMD then you are wrong!

They already have them;

The People's Republic of China has developed and possesses weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and nuclear weapons. The first of China's nuclear weapons tests took place in 1964,[1] and its first hydrogen bomb test occurred in 1967 at Lop Nur. Tests continued until 1996.

China and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia

 

If you are talking Political and financial power projection outside of Asia they have plenty;

The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI, or B&R[1]), known within China as the One Belt One Road is a global infrastructure development strategy adopted by the Chinese government in 2013 to invest in more than 150 countries and international organizations. It is considered a centerpiece of the Chinese leader Xi Jinping's foreign policy

 

Belt and Road Initiative - Wikipedia

WMD of course. I was thinking in terms of projecting military power. The US is almost unique in being able to send troops anywhere on the planet within 24 hours. They have airlift and sealift capacity that other countries (even China) do not. Ditto force multipliers like air to air refueling capabilities, long range bombers, carrier strike forces, Marine amphibious units, and so on.

Even an invasion of a close island like Taiwan is arguably still not possible for the PLAN.  

This is why, for example when natural disasters happen the US Military is often one of the first and most important organizations to arrive and start helping people. 

[scottiejohn]

17 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The US is almost unique in being able to send troops anywhere on the planet within 24 hours.

You cannot be almost unique! You are either unique or not!

All the major powers can send troops anywhere on the planet within 24hrs!

US, Russia, China, France UK etc.  The numbers of course will vary by country and distances/requirements involved!

[scottiejohn]

20 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

They have airlift and sealift capacity that other countries (even China) do not. Ditto force multipliers like air to air refueling capabilities, long range bombers, carrier strike forces, Marine amphibious units, and so on.

China has all these capabilities but admittedly on a smaller scale.

[scottiejohn]

21 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This is why, for example when natural disasters happen the US Military is often one of the first and most important organizations to arrive and start helping people. 

Please take off your rose tinted glasses. The US is not the saviour of the world!

I am sure organisations like "Médecins Sans Frontières", "The Red Cross" and many others would disagree as to who "is often one of the first and most important organizations to arrive and start helping people,"  as would other military forces around the world!

[Hanaguma]

18 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

You cannot be almost unique! You are either unique or not!

All the major powers can send troops anywhere on the planet within 24hrs!

US, Russia, China, France UK etc.  The numbers of course will vary by country and distances/requirements involved!

Of course. All a matter of scale.  Apologies for the inaccurat grammer. 

 

For example, the USAF has 222 c-17 aircraft. The next country has 11. The UK has 8.

[scottiejohn]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

For example, the USAF has 222 c-17 aircraft. The next country has 11. The UK has 8.

So you quote an aircraft that went out of production 8 years ago and which obviously the Russians and Chinese do not use.  The UK are even ditching the C130!

The US do not use the Airbus or Y-20 or Il-76MD either!

 

[Hanaguma]

23 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Please take off your rose tinted glasses. The US is not the saviour of the world!

I am sure organisations like "Médecins Sans Frontières", "The Red Cross" and many others would disagree as to who "is often one of the first and most important organizations to arrive and start helping people,"  as would other military forces around the world!

...and those are all worthy and good organizations. Yet, how do they go to disaster zones? 

I think after the 2004 tsunami, the US Navy was the first on the scene with substantial aid in Indonesia.

In Haiti in 2010 the US Navy was on scene within 48 hours with 600,000 food rations, 35,000 gallons of water etc. 10,000 troops on the ground days later. 

All a matter of scale. 

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I think after the 2004 tsunami, the US Navy was the first on the scene with substantial aid in Indonesia.

A bad example!

Asian expatriates, governments, humanitarian organisations and individuals around the world arrived, eager to offer aid and technical support. Such was the global scope of the disaster that the International Charter on Space and Major Disasters was activated in quick succession by the French Civil Protection Agency, the Indian space agency ISRO, and by UNOOSA on behalf of UNOPS, thus providing a wide variety of humanitarian satellite imagery to aid and rescue organisations. The World Bank initially estimated the amount of aid needed at US$5 billion. Although numerous countries provided help for relief and assistance, the UN criticised both the US and Europe for providing inadequate resources.

 

Humanitarian response to the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake - Wikipedia

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

So you quote an aircraft that went out of production 8 years ago and which obviously the Russians and Chinese do not use.  The UK are even ditching the C130!

The US do not use the Airbus or Y-20 or Il-76MD either!

 

The CHinese have about 50 equivalent aircraft. The C-130 is ancient. Hell, I rode it when I was in the military more than 30 years ago. It is also not really a strategic lift plane, it has limited range. 

The French have about 20 Airbus, Germany the same, UK the same. It is limited in range also when carrying max payload. 

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

A bad example!

Asian expatriates, governments, humanitarian organisations and individuals around the world arrived, eager to offer aid and technical support. Such was the global scope of the disaster that the International Charter on Space and Major Disasters was activated in quick succession by the French Civil Protection Agency, the Indian space agency ISRO, and by UNOOSA on behalf of UNOPS, thus providing a wide variety of humanitarian satellite imagery to aid and rescue organisations. The World Bank initially estimated the amount of aid needed at US$5 billion. Although numerous countries provided help for relief and assistance, the UN criticised both the US and Europe for providing inadequate resources.

 

Humanitarian response to the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake - Wikipedia

Really? The US military sent more than 12000 personnel, 21 ships including a 1000 bed hospital ship, 90 helicopters, 14 cargo planes....

With respect, the UN can <deleted>. How many ships did THEY send?

[Cory1848]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

Balance has not been maintained. Seventy years ago, China was a peasant society suffering from famine whose navy couldn't challenge a row boat. Today, thanks to diplomacy and US offshoring, China threatens and takes what it wants. That's what diplomacy got.

Fair enough, but I was talking about “balance” specifically on Taiwan: Taiwan doesn’t declare independence, and they can maintain de facto independence, even be armed by and have their security guaranteed by the United States. And I’m not sure what you would propose instead at this point: what’s the solution, if not the status quo?

 

China doesn’t exactly take what it wants: they’ve built up some islands in the South China Sea, but US warships still regularly sail through, not to mention sailing through the Taiwan Strait. As mentioned elsewhere here, the US ability to project power far exceeds that of any other nation on earth. Are the Chinese sailing carrier groups between Grand Bahama Island and Miami? No, the best they can do are the balloons.

 

That said, a war over Taiwan would be unimaginably catastrophic, and Taiwan itself would likely be obliterated. (So, we had to destroy the village in order to save it?) I don’t see any alternative to continuing to try to talk and find common ground, and “off-ramps” as needed.