In the photo attached... does it mean we have no safety cut functioning in our building.

[ubonr1971]

Ive come back home after being away and family is asleep. We just had a power cut and I thought I would go and look in the electric box (mains area). I am shocked to see that the RCBO module component is missing to the right of the switches. I dont have electrical knowledge but its always been there before. Either my wife or staff have removed it....

 

A month ago the power kept tripping. I remember the electrician saying that the component might be compromised. Maybe we should replace it. 

 

If that is not inserted in there, does it mean that we dont have proper protection ie safety cut?

 

If I want to go and buy another one can you tell me exactly want to buy? I assume I can show photo to them? After buying it can I just insert it myself or should a sparkie do it?

 

thanks

Edited June 21, 2023 by ubonr1971

[eisfeld]

Yup seems like the RCBO was just removed. I guess that's one way to "fix" the problem. I've seen a few electrical installations in Thai houses which are leaking and causing RBCOs to trip. Of course fixing the leaks is much harder than just removing the RCBO from the equation...

[ubonr1971]

1 minute ago, eisfeld said:

Yup seems like the RCBO was just removed. I guess that's one way to "fix" the problem. I've seen a few electrical installations in Thai houses which are leaking and causing RBCOs to trip. Of course fixing the leaks is much harder than just removing the RCBO from the equation...

does it mean all safety is gone?

[FriendlyFarang]

25 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

does it mean all safety is gone?

Yes

[eisfeld]

38 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

does it mean all safety is gone?

For people? Yes it seems so. You only got the overcurrent protection of the normal fuses which mainly protects cables/switches etc.

[smoo1954]

Because the photo you took is not very sharp it’s hard to be sure but it looks like the single module item attached to the end of your 3 phase breaker could possibly be the RCD. Take another photo.

[Muhendis]

You should get an electrician to do the replacement since you already said you have no knowledge of electrical things.

The electrician may also need to be good enough to go hunting for the orginal fault which caused the RCBO to keep tripping.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Muhendis

[sometimewoodworker]

20 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

You should get an electrician to do the replacement since you already said you have no knowledge of electrical things.

Agreed

20 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

The electrician may also need to be good enough to go hunting for the orginal fault which caused the RCBO to keep tripping.

But good luck with finding an actual electrician

[eisfeld]

36 minutes ago, smoo1954 said:

Because the photo you took is not very sharp it’s hard to be sure but it looks like the single module item attached to the end of your 3 phase breaker could possibly be the RCD. Take another photo.

Looks like a shunt release for remote control to me. And it seems all three breaker toggles are physically hacked together and then to the shunt release? Not 100% sure as picture not super clear.

[Muhendis]

20 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

But good luck with finding an actual electrician

Yeah.

Perhaps I should qualify a bit by adding Competent electrician.

[Crossy]

As above, with the RCBO module removed you have no earth-leakage protection.

 

Any indication where the unit went? It may well be faulty but having the old one would make life far easier when sourcing a replacement.

 

Of course, when you fit the new one you will still have the tripping issue. Then it's time to start looking for the real problem.

 

[h90]

I guess in your condo you have an additional safety box that makes the safety for your area.

Would be interesting what is in there....And might be easy to add some more safety there.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

Yeah.

Perhaps I should qualify a bit by adding Competent electrician.

Or at least a different one...

[h90]

57 minutes ago, Crossy said:

As above, with the RCBO module removed you have no earth-leakage protection.

 

Any indication where the unit went? It may well be faulty but having the old one would make life far easier when sourcing a replacement.

 

Of course, when you fit the new one you will still have the tripping issue. Then it's time to start looking for the real problem.

 

If it is a big building and no one knows where there are wires and where not it is difficult.....Difficult if it is no always only sometimes...And the customer will complain when you disconnect all the time.

I would split the cable tree and look in which half the problem is...than split that to half.....but that will need long time...and if all is like it is in many times both halfs will have a problem.....

[Yellowtail]

STC Gold | ผู้ผลิตและจำหน่ายเครื่องตัดไฟ‎ (stcgoldthailand.com)

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

Yeah.

Perhaps I should qualify a bit by adding Competent electrician.

My experience is that if you find an actual electrician (qualified and with his own tools) they are competent. The problem is that very few people doing electrical work in domestic installations are electricians.

[wpcoe]

2 hours ago, smoo1954 said:

Because the photo you took is not very sharp it’s hard to be sure but it looks like the single module item attached to the end of your 3 phase breaker could possibly be the RCD. Take another photo.

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Looks like a shunt release for remote control to me. And it seems all three breaker toggles are physically hacked together and then to the shunt release? Not 100% sure as picture not super clear.

Agree that is looks like a shunt release, like this one:  https://chint-circuit-breaker.com/product-sht-x3-shunt-release.html

 

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Agree that is looks like a shunt release, like this one:  https://chint-circuit-breaker.com/product-sht-x3-shunt-release.html

 

 

Yup, it's a shunt release which is supposed to be operated by the absent RCBO sensing module.

[The Theory]

12 hours ago, ubonr1971 said:

If that is not inserted in there, does it mean that we dont have proper protection ie safety cut?

I'm wondering how you expect to have power back without RCBO breaker !!! 
When you can find the unit or you buy a replacement it shall still trip. 
you can try this with old/new unit if trips again: there is a selector right below the RCBO (sensitivity). Buy an electronic spray. Whit main power off spray and wash the selector truly. Turn the selector back one fort while you are spraying to it. 
There should be no more problem, 

[brianthainess]

3 hours ago, Muhendis said:

You should get an electrician to do the replacement since you already said you have no knowledge of electrical things.

The electrician may also need to be good enough to go hunting for the orginal fault which caused the RCBO to keep tripping.

 

We had a problem at my wife's shop even with the trip re-set, no power, a young electrician we know, eventually found an ants nest in the power box, those tiny tiny ones you can barely see. 

[brianthainess]

12 hours ago, ubonr1971 said:

A month ago the power kept tripping. I remember the electrician saying that the component might be compromised. Maybe we should replace it. 

Was this happening when a storm/lightning happening ?

[DUNROAMIN]

Many Thais will remove this feature, as it is too expensive to o find the fault. There are many causes, faulty appliences, water, gekos, faulty wall socket. I would install new RCBO and try to pin point the fault, without it you are playing russian roulette. Does it happen when raining, when you plug in a applience, use a particular wall socket, etc. Most times here in Thailand is because of crappy workmanship when wiring your home, all wire connections here are just  twisted together and covered with insulation tape. Good luck.

[Crossy]

53 minutes ago, The Theory said:

I'm wondering how you expect to have power back without RCBO breaker !!! 

 

The missing unit is actually just the trigger electronics for the shunt-release (the small blue device on the right) that opens the main MCB. Without it you lose the RCD functionality but retain the MCB over-current protection.

[ubonr1971]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yup, it's a shunt release which is supposed to be operated by the absent RCBO sensing module.

What does that mean. Please explain in basic terms. Is our building still protected if the RCBO is absent?

[ubonr1971]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Without it you lose the RCD functionality but retain the MCB over-current protection.

Does the MCB over current protection mean that my customers cant die if something happens? Is it same as safety cut?

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

What does that mean. Please explain in basic terms. Is our building still protected if the RCBO is absent?

 

With the RCBO module missing you have NO earth leakage protection. A faulty water heater or other appliance could kill.

 

The shunt-release is simply the actuator for the MCBs, it is controlled by the RCBO module when it is fitted.

 

You need to obtain a replacement RCBO module of the correct type and install it. If you still have tripping you need to do some further fault-finding.

 

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

Does the MCB over current protection mean that my customers cant die if something happens? Is it same as safety cut?

 

The over-current protection is there to protect your wiring against overload (and potential fire).

 

The RCBO is there to protect humans against death from an accidental shock, from either faulty appliances or touching a live wire.

 

You need both for maximum safety.

 

Note that we don't know what other protection is in place, do your rooms have individual breakers or breaker boxes? Show us some photos there may be sufficient protection there.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, ubonr1971 said:

Does the MCB over current protection mean that my customers cant die if something happens? Is it same as safety cut?

As @Crossy said the MCB protects the wiring from overloading and starting a fire. It does not stop your customers from electrical shock and possibly death.
 

The safety-cut is an RCCB and will reduce time of a possible electrical shock to 30 milliseconds (some less than that), for 99.9% of electrical shock situations this means that death is unlikely.

 

However it is still possible for either shock to be a part of the cause of death. If the person getting shocked is caused to fall and hit their head on a sharp object like a kitchen counter, to give one possible scenario. 
 

However many people have had electric shocks with no serious effects 

[Crossy]

Just to add to what @sometimewoodworkerhas noted.

 

The "30-30-30 rule" (30 Volts, 30 milliamps, 30 milliseconds) is a necessary compromise between having "nuisance trips" and not killing the vast majority of healthy adults.

 

The old, young or infirm may well have a lower tolerance to electric shock. Hence the use of 10mA or even lower RCBO tripping currents in medical or similar situations.

 

@ubonr1971 don't worry about the technicalities, you need to replace that RCBO module, then if you continue to get tripping you need to investigate the root cause.

 

Note that most sparkies would test the RCBO unit by substitution, put a new one in and see if the problem goes away.

[ubonr1971]

8 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Many Thais will remove this feature, as it is too expensive to o find the fault. There are many causes, faulty appliences, water, gekos, faulty wall socket. I would install new RCBO and try to pin point the fault, without it you are playing russian roulette. Does it happen when raining, when you plug in a applience, use a particular wall socket, etc. Most times here in Thailand is because of crappy workmanship when wiring your home, all wire connections here are just  twisted together and covered with insulation tape. Good luck.

Basically, its a complete nightmare to isolate the problem...

 

Months ago we installed a new bathroom. Actually the builder ripped off the old tiles on walls and floor. But he didnt 'waterproof' the room. I didnt know about this. So the new RCBO device will go in the box tonight. And from tonight for 1 week I will not allow anyone to use that shower. Will wait for rain and see if it trips. If no tripping then I will allow use of the shower and see if it trips. Im a bit suspcious. Its above the electric box room to the right 1 to 2m. Wondering if water is leaking on wires there