Barriers to transgender people accessing Thailand’s healthcare system

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This link covers a lot about the word cisgender. But i want to mention something that I don't see discussed elsewhere. A reason why the word NORMAL is not nearly as good or as precise as cisgender.

 

Ignoring the "othering" aspects mentioned in the link, consider this.

 

Someone says -- I'm normal. I'm a normal man. 

What is he saying?

 

That he likes sports?

 

That he doesn't call again after the first date?

 

That he's heterosexual?

 

That he is a born male that identifies as male?

 

You don't know!

 

You need to add more information to know what he means.

 

When you say heterosexual you know he's talking about his sexual orientation. In one word!

 

When you say cisgender, you know he's talking about his gender identity. In one word!

 

Yes, again, cisgender is not a slur in the slightest, but is in fact a very useful word.

 

 

‘We’re just normal, why do you call us cis?’ | by Allison Washington | CROSSIN(G)ENRES (crossingenres.com)

Well I'm definitely not normal, as I'm thinking here, when do y'all have all these conversation about sexuality, preference, new word discussions.  I'm racking my brain here, trying to think if & when I had a conversation on that topic.  

 

I certainly have never been asked or asked anyone of their preferences.  I must only hang around open minded people that simply don't care.

[djayz]

On 6/26/2023 at 4:39 PM, PremiumLane said:

Really telling how a post about trans healthcare brings the low-brow knuckle draggers in to give us their expert opinions on such topics as "muh feelings are hurt cos trans people exist" and "muh feeling are hurt if I get called a science term" - bunch of snowflakes on here

What pronoun do you "identify" as?

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, djayz said:

What pronoun do you "identify" as?

Don't know about PL, but these are the only ones that exist to me.

 

I go by the ones in the 'I' line;  I - me - my - mine - myself.

 

Only taught 2 for male/female, being he/she.  Only 2 that I need or use.

Them/they are simply a plural use of he/she, and no other meaning to me.

 

And nobody gets referred to as an alphabet letter.  I have no problem being understood, or understanding anyone using these pronouns.

Edited June 28, 2023 by KhunLA

[PremiumLane]

14 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Good god, the irony!  ????

Yeah, god forbid we use pronouns for people, and we have a scientific term for people who aren't trans... the horror of it all!!! 

[PremiumLane]

20 minutes ago, djayz said:

What pronoun do you "identify" as?

Well, everyone identifies as a pronoun, so that isn't the gotcha you think it is. 

[jacko45k]

20 minutes ago, djayz said:

What pronoun do you "identify" as?

He!

[PremiumLane]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:45 PM, scottiejohn said:

To quote you from above; "muh feelings are hurt cos trans people exist" and "muh feeling are hurt if I get called a science term"

For your information some of the terms you use have nothing to do with science terms! Just one example (the one I referred to earlier!)

e.g. "Cisgender";

From;"Cis" Coined by "Pedosexual" Physician (4w.pub)

The term "cis gender" has gained widespread popularity in recent years, largely due to a push from trans activists who define the word as the opposite of “transgender." However, few users of the term are aware it originated with a German sexologist who also believes pedophilia is a sexuality.

 

Other sources here; What does it mean to be cisgender? Here's what to know (yahoo.com)

 

 

hahah is that your source. Source = trust me, bro and pass the crack pipe

[PremiumLane]

On 6/26/2023 at 4:43 PM, scottiejohn said:

Did you actually read the post I was quoting and referring to!

I have nothing against the LBGT community.  I objected to being accused of "So you prefer transgender??"

Yes, and again, we have an article on trans health and in you pop with "I prefer women" - good job again 

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Yeah, god forbid we use pronouns for people, and we have a scientific term for people who aren't trans... the horror of it all!!! 

I find nothing scientific about all these new, and quite confusing new words, classifications, pronouns.

 

Call yourself what you want, but don't expect me to keep up, understand, or use anything different that I wasn't taught in school over 50 years ago.  Don't get offended if I don't comply to your silliness.

Edited June 28, 2023 by KhunLA

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

Yeah, god forbid we use pronouns for people, and we have a scientific term for people who aren't trans... the horror of it all!!! 

The point is that your argument is "Say what we want to avoid offending people, while we will call you what we want and if you're offended then we will mock you".

 

It's completely hypocritical because your arguments are based on your feelings and do not use facts or logic.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I find nothing scientific about all these new, and quite confusing new words, classifications, pronouns.

 

Call yourself what you want, but don't expect me to keep up, understand, or use anything different that I wasn't taught in school over 50 years ago.  Don't get offended if I don't comply to your silliness.

I grew up with rotary phones, tape recorders that held tape, and answering machines were revolutionary technology. Societies progress. New words come into wide usage. Not all individuals can be expected to progress with societies.

[BangkokReady]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Someone says -- I'm normal. I'm a normal man. 

What is he saying?

 

That he likes sports?

 

That he doesn't call again after the first date?

 

That he's heterosexual?

 

That he is a born male that identifies as male?

 

You don't know!

Why do you need to massage what is being said so much? If you believe in your message, then just present it honestly.

 

Obviously it would be a case of saying "normal gender", or if someone asks how to describe a person's gender, they can simply reply "normal".

 

You're pretending that there are issues that simply don't exist because you want to force people to use the word that you want them to use.

 

Just be honest and stop trying to manipulate people.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I grew up with rotary phones, tape recorders that held tape, and answering machines were revolutionary technology. Societies progress. New words come into wide usage. Not all individuals can be expected to progress with societies.

Apples & oranges.   

 

New words for something that just doesn't change; male, female.  I don't need or want any new words or changed definitions of what I was already taught.

[BangkokReady]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I grew up with rotary phones, tape recorders that held tape, and answering machines were revolutionary technology. Societies progress. New words come into wide usage. Not all individuals can be expected to progress with societies.

People try to introduce new words and fail all the time.

 

There is nothing inevitable about a word simply because you happen to like it.

 

"New things succeed all the time, therefore because this thing is new it must succeed" is illogical.

Edited June 28, 2023 by BangkokReady

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Apples & oranges.   

 

New words for something that just doesn't change; male, female.  I don't need or want any new words or changed definitions of what I was already taught.

No. Cisgender doesn't mean male and it doesn't mean female. You are free to express reactionary sentiments but you do NOT get to completely distort the well defined actual meaning of a totally legitimate word.

Don't use it if you don't want to.

No problem with that.

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed

[Jingthing]

Cisgender is an established word.

Name even one credible English dictionary where it isn't listed.

Yes, language is fluid.

Words come into usage and words come out of usage.

Definitions can change.

But for the time being CISGENDER's meaning it completely unambiguous.

Learn it or not.

Use it or not.

Check in again in 50 years.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[proton]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I grew up with rotary phones, tape recorders that held tape, and answering machines were revolutionary technology. Societies progress. New words come into wide usage. Not all individuals can be expected to progress with societies.

Inventing new words to demonise and divide is not progress, nor is the spread of this pro noun nonsense, feelings over reality or identifying as made up genders or even animals. 

[BangkokReady]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Cisgender is an established word.

Name even one credible English dictionary where it isn't listed.

Yes, language is fluid.

Words come into usage and words come out of usage.

Definitions can change.

But for the time being CISGENDER's meaning it completely unambiguous.

Learn it or not.

Use it or not.

Check in again in 50 years.

Imagine non-trans people started using an uneccessary word that trans people didn't like and found offensive. Do you think for a second that this word would be allowed to be used?

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, proton said:

Inventing new words to demonise and divide is not progress, nor is the spread of this pro noun nonsense, feelings over reality or identifying as made up genders or even animals. 

Cisgender is not about pronouns.

It is a well established scientific word.

It's as far away from a slur word as you can get.

So you're spouting irrelevant hot button red meat right wing talking points.

Nothing to do with reality.

 

I will add that normal is not a slur word either.  Though it can be a loaded word if you're in a group being othered by its usage.

 

People are free to not learn the meaning of cisgender or to not use it. They are also free to cover their ears in denial when others use it.

 

But they are not free to dictate to others not to use it. 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[proton]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Cisgender is not about pronouns.

It is a well established scientific word.

It's as far away from a slur word as you can get.

So you're spouting irrelevant hot button red meat right wing talking points.

Nothing to do with reality.

 

I will add that normal is not a slur word either.  Though it can be a loaded word if you're in a group being othered by its usage.

 

People are free to not learn the meaning of cisgender or to not use it. They are also free to cover their ears in denial when others use it.

 

But they are not free to dictate to others not to use it. 

 

Only in general use since 2011, Cisgender just means - NORMAL and the same sex you were born with, male or female. We don't need another word to describe somebody not changing sex or identifying as a cat or a badger! It's offensive to normal people, we are allowed to be.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, proton said:

Only in general use since 2011, Cisgender just means - NORMAL and the same sex you were born with, male or female. We don't need another word to describe somebody not changing sex or identifying as a cat or a badger! It's offensive to normal people, we are allowed to be.

No.

As I explained before normal is not a precise word.

Normal related to what?

Normal body weight?

Normal frequency of masturbation?

Normal sleeping routine?

Normal bowel movements?

You would need to clarify that you mean normal related to gender identity.

The word cisgender is PRECISE.

No clarification needed.

 

Sure you are allowed to feel offended by the use of a precise neutral scientific word. I am allowed to think that is hysterical and dumb.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[Stocky]

On 6/26/2023 at 4:21 PM, scottiejohn said:

But today do you know how to identify who is what of this lot?

‘LGBTQIA2S+’

I just refer to them as Alphabet People

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Stocky said:

I just refer to them as Alphabet People

So many letters has invited mockery. 

There are no vote on this.

I think just saying LGBT ... may be a useful compromise.

These groups are not a monolith. 

Many people in these groups are not happy about the glut of letters either.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[h90]

18 minutes ago, proton said:

Only in general use since 2011, Cisgender just means - NORMAL and the same sex you were born with, male or female. We don't need another word to describe somebody not changing sex or identifying as a cat or a badger! It's offensive to normal people, we are allowed to be.

So basically it is a switch....if everyone uses the word cisman and ciswoman for normal ones. Automatically the trans people will feel discriminated if they are called only man and woman....as than everyone will know that they are different than what they were born with.

Than in a 20 years they'll demand that they'll be called cis as well and that the cis will be called something else....and the same dance begins....

[proton]

14 minutes ago, h90 said:

So basically it is a switch....if everyone uses the word cisman and ciswoman for normal ones. Automatically the trans people will feel discriminated if they are called only man and woman....as than everyone will know that they are different than what they were born with.

Than in a 20 years they'll demand that they'll be called cis as well and that the cis will be called something else....and the same dance begins....

Cisgender is as offensive as calling a gay person a faggot or a dyke

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, proton said:

Cisgender is as offensive as calling a gay person a faggot or a dyke

Perhaps in some people's alternative universe, but in fact cisgender is not a slur at all. But asserting that absurd falsehood did give you the opportunity to post actual slurs. If there was any doubt where you were coming from before in regard to LGBT ... people, now any sliver of doubt has been erased.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[h90]

8 minutes ago, proton said:

Cisgender is as offensive as calling a gay person a faggot or a dyke

I don't care....call me cisgender, Mr. or Miss.....I am not part of the team offended....

That being offended is a sign of being insecure....I don't care what other people think about me.

And in the office environment...all are middle age man (beside the accounting woman) who all look and act as if the last 20 year didn't happen....

I think these gender issues exist only in the twitter bubble.

[James105]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Cisgender is not about pronouns.

It is a well established scientific word.

It's as far away from a slur word as you can get.

So you're spouting irrelevant hot button red meat right wing talking points.

Nothing to do with reality.

 

I will add that normal is not a slur word either.  Though it can be a loaded word if you're in a group being othered by its usage.

 

People are free to not learn the meaning of cisgender or to not use it. They are also free to cover their ears in denial when others use it.

 

But they are not free to dictate to others not to use it. 

 

I thought the way the system worked now is that you are obliged to call people what they prefer to be called out of "politeness" if nothing else.   If someone identifies as "not" cis, but happens to be a heterosexual male or female you seem to want to continue to call them cis even if that is not how they "identify"?    This is what Elon musk was referring to as the word is used as a slur by trans activists continuing to harass people on Twitter calling them "cis" or "cissy" even after they had been asked to not use that word as that is not how they want to be referred to.

 

Anyway, following your language rules I presume you are okay with this going the other way too?  So people referring to trans women as "men", "he" or "mr" is also fine as these are also not slurs, are in the dictionary and trans folk are "free to cover their ears in denial when others use it", nor are they free to dictate to others not to use these terms.   

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, James105 said:

I thought the way the system worked now is that you are obliged to call people what they prefer to be called out of "politeness" if nothing else.   If someone identifies as "not" cis, but happens to be a heterosexual male or female you seem to want to continue to call them cis even if that is not how they "identify"?    This is what Elon musk was referring to as the word is used as a slur by trans activists continuing to harass people on Twitter calling them "cis" or "cissy" even after they had been asked to not use that word as that is not how they want to be referred to.

 

Anyway, following your language rules I presume you are okay with this going the other way too?  So people referring to trans women as "men", "he" or "mr" is also fine as these are also not slurs, are in the dictionary and trans folk are "free to cover their ears in denial when others use it", nor are they free to dictate to others not to use these terms.   

I don't accept the premise of your equivalence argument and attempted bait. 

 

"My" language rules? What are you on about?!?

 

Cisgender is a scientific word. Nothing to do with pronouns. Nothing to do with sexual orientation. Use it or not. Up to you. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Jingthing