Divorce and runaway kids

[n00dle]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

1. Divorced women never enforce agreements which aren't to their benefit.

2. But they will happily undermine the father at every opportunity.

3. Courts rarely punish mothers for breaking divorce agreements.

 

This is the way the non-Muslim world works.

My mileage varied. My ex and I get along great and have been working together for years to raise my daughter. 

[balo]

I am not surprised, the kids want to be with their Thai family.

[kwonitoy]

12 hours ago, 2008bangkok said:

Excessive, taking your washing out the basket walking 10.meters, pressing 2 buttons then an hour later hanging them out, at 1 month short of 15 years old!!

Sorry, I appreciate and listening to your advice but I don't agree with that.

When I say tidy your room, I mean i let it slide until it literally becomes and with no exagerationa tip, I have attached example where my tolerance levels snaps.

His room didn't get into this kind of state in one day.

So, as a single father, as am I, also with full parental powers, with an 11 year old Thai/Canadian son where are your housekeeping standards?

My son and I mop the floors together and vacuum the rugs, he does the laundry because I taught him how to do so, have you?

I show him how to cook and buy food, change a light switch, build Ikea furniture, etc, you know dad things

speak to him respectfully and it will be returned

My son and I say please and thank you and your welcome to each other because I taught being polite is free and beneficial,  and I try lead by example 

You've obviously ignored this for weeks if not longer and then expect him to tidy it when you decide

Get your son, and together tidy the place up together, set a standard, follow it yourself and he might also.

It won't sink in a day but keep that standard up.

If I was your kid I'd go to moms place also

Learn some dad skills and lose the "It's my way because I say so"

[2008bangkok]

51 minutes ago, balo said:

I am not surprised, the kids want to be with their Thai family.

Yes , I agree, so stick it in 

[2008bangkok]

2 minutes ago, kwonitoy said:

His room didn't get into this kind of state in one day.

So, as a single father, as am I, also with full parental powers, with an 11 year old Thai/Canadian son where are your housekeeping standards?

My son and I mop the floors together and vacuum the rugs, he does the laundry because I taught him how to do so, have you?

I show him how to cook and buy food, change a light switch, build Ikea furniture, etc, you know dad things

speak to him respectfully and it will be returned

My son and I say please and thank you and your welcome to each other because I taught being polite is free and beneficial,  and I try lead by example 

You've obviously ignored this for weeks if not longer and then expect him to tidy it when you decide

Get your son, and together tidy the place up together, set a standard, follow it yourself and he might also.

It won't sink in a day but keep that standard up.

If I was your kid I'd go to moms place also

Learn some dad skills and lose the "It's my way because I say so"

Living standards.ok..id say 

[Dante99]

21 hours ago, 2008bangkok said:

Dude are you serious?

So don't push my kid to be better just let him be and end up earning 15k a month as a Thai doing crappy jobs all his life.

If you think that is what I wrote I think getting you to understand is not something I choose to engage.  Good luck with jumping to  extremes.

[Yellowtail]

22 hours ago, kingkenny said:

ah so you have basically woke up this morning and decided to post a load of nonsense.

 

Its not about trying to force the boy, its about accepting a legally binding a agreement that the son lives with his father and all the crying or Thainess in the world does not change this fact, Sure the boy might run away again blah blah blah blah.

 

On another note, when I moved here 19 years ago I did not see a counter at the airport where we are supposed to surrender our testicles and just bow down to our Thai overlords, is this a relatively new counter?

How it is the mother or the son acting outside the law? 

[kingstonkid]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:24 AM, 2008bangkok said:

 

If I thought in the long term this would be better for him then I would just leave it, but my ex wife while looking like a loving mum is only intelligent enough to make sure he has basic care, forget things like education etc.

So although it seems as I am being cruel I firmly believe it's in his best interests in the long term at 14 to be with his Dad.

 

She is so immature that she won't talk to me or do what is right to stop all this and immediately send him back to me. So shows what she is like.

 

The challenge you have is that while courrts can say who should do what there is nothing stopping the kids from making their choice.

 

You my friend have told yourself exactly why he wants  to live there.  

 

No rules, no expectations, no one telling him what to do.   Everything he values are at your ex's house.  I am sure life is a whole lot easier there and I am sure daughter is also making it difficult.

 

You can say what you want and you can flash that paper but unless you want to jail him in your house ther is nothing you can do.  

 

If he wants to live with them then say ok and move him to the wife's house and let him see what he is going to get. 

 

You can always be there if he realizes what he is losing.

[Ben Zioner]

Obviously social services weren't involved in the divorce, separating the children is preposterous.

 

As expats we should ensure that our children have up to date passports and speak english, otherwise we are failures as fathers.

[CecilM]

Divorce is hard on kids. Even harder if siblings are split up. Even harder in multi-culture/race relationships.

Maybe rotating custody? (Both kids stay with one parent for certain period, then move to the other parent.)

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, CecilM said:

Divorce is hard on kids. Even harder if siblings are split up. Even harder in multi-culture/race relationships.

Maybe rotating custody? (Both kids stay with one parent for certain period, then move to the other parent.)

The OP does not even know where the wife lives, and his boy drives past her soi on his way to school. 

[kingkenny]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:04 AM, Yellowtail said:

How it is the mother or the son acting outside the law? 

Legally, the father has custody of the son, it is not rocket science, even a fool can determine the answer to your question from my comments in this thread.

[Yellowtail]

27 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

Legally, the father has custody of the son, it is not rocket science, even a fool can determine the answer to your question from my comments in this thread.

Apparently, the son it is taking it upon himself to go see the mother. Does the father having custody mean that the mother is breaking the law by allowing her son to visit her in her home? 

 

The son has not been taken by the mother, nor is the son being held against his will, nor is there anything stopping the father from going and getting the boy. 

 

While I agree it's not "rocket science", I fail to see how the mother is breaking the law, and if that makes me a fool, so be it. 

 

Maybe a smart guy like you can explain it to me. 

 

 

[kingkenny]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Apparently, the son it is taking it upon himself to go see the mother. Does the father having custody mean that the mother is breaking the law by allowing her son to visit her in her home? 

 

The son has not been taken by the mother, nor is the son being held against his will, nor is there anything stopping the father from going and getting the boy. 

 

While I agree it's not "rocket science", I fail to see how the mother is breaking the law, and if that makes me a fool, so be it. 

 

Maybe a smart guy like you can explain it to me. 

 

 

Without having the time to read the whole thread back I am not sure I have accused the mother, or the son of breaking the law, correct me if I am wrong. If she refuses to return the son then that is another matter, irrespective of the sons wishes.

[Yellowtail]

47 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

Without having the time to read the whole thread back I am not sure I have accused the mother, or the son of breaking the law, correct me if I am wrong. If she refuses to return the son then that is another matter, irrespective of the sons wishes.

Yet when I asked: "How it is the mother or the son acting outside the law?" you responded with: "Legally, the father has custody of the son, it is not rocket science, even a fool can determine the answer to your question from my comments in this thread.". 

 

Now, apparently you cannot answer my question.

 

The father has custody and is responsible for the boy, and there has been not talk of the mother taking from the boy from the father or holding the boy against his will or against the will of the father. Neither has there been talk of a restraining order against anyone.

 

Why should the mother disallow the boy from visiting her, and why is it the mother's responsibility to physically return the boy to the father? 

 

 

 

 

[kingkenny]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yet when I asked: "How it is the mother or the son acting outside the law?" you responded with: "Legally, the father has custody of the son, it is not rocket science, even a fool can determine the answer to your question from my comments in this thread.". 

 

Now, apparently you cannot answer my question.

 

The father has custody and is responsible for the boy, and there has been not talk of the mother taking from the boy from the father or holding the boy against his will or against the will of the father. Neither has there been talk of a restraining order against anyone.

 

Why should the mother disallow the boy from visiting her, and why is it the mother's responsibility to physically return the boy to the father? 

 

 

 

 

Yes, even a fool can determine the answer to your question, clearly you can not so let me help you. At no point did I say the were acting outside the law, well without knowledge of their intentions we assume this. The fact remains the father has full legal custody, if at any point he tells the mother the son is to be returned then she must return him, its not rocket science where the law comes into this. If you keep up with the thread you will see the father does not know where she lives so he can't pick him up, so yes, the mother should arrange return.

 

I have not said at any point the boy is being held against his will, but I will say it is not relevant whether he is held against his will or not, the fact is the father has full legal custody, now pay attention to this bit as this negates any other argument you might want to put forward or any defence you want to give to the mother, I will repeat it, the father has full legal custody, this remains in force until the boy is either 21 or married. Maybe you do not understand what full legal custody means, it means irrespective of the boys or the mothers wishes when the father says the boy needs to be returned then the boy needs to be returned.

[khunPer]

On 6/30/2023 at 3:24 AM, 2008bangkok said:

I guess my question is does anybody know that the guardianship amphur papers are actually binding and she has no right at all to have him at her house, just like I don't with our daughter and it would be like a random person harbouring my son.

I do feel for the kids in all this, I would be more than happy to just act like a normal divorced couple who get along, perhaps go out as a full family now and again, she seems hell bent on this not happening and messing the kids heads up.

In my modest opinion – and I also have a child in Thailand – you should first of all make it attractive for your son to stay with you; force won't solve the problem.

[glegolo18]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:24 AM, 2008bangkok said:

I understand he would prefer to live with them as they all speak Thai, still part of the family albeit without me and still has my daughter as company.

I think you hit it on the nail there.. If you REALLY are looking for the best for your son. maybe you should start to look beyond yourself a bit.. If you didn´t have created any better bond with him in your daily life while you were married, why do you think that he is more happy with you now``...

 

Maybe you are paying for that lack of connection now... So start to look into yourself first thing you do... Where are your son as happiest?????  You have already answered that question in my opinion..

[LikeItHot]

He will be back when the money dries up

[john donson]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:24 AM, 2008bangkok said:

Me and my wife recently divorced after 16 years at the amphur, the agreement which is written on the divorce papers documents was she has full guardianship of our daughter and I do of our son.

 

Unfortunately my son takes it hard and is also very jealous of my daughter living with the mum so at every opportunity after an argument ie, clean your bedroom, or I'm having a couple of beers on the patio he runs off to his mother's and doesn't come back and blocks me on chat.

 

I understand he would prefer to live with them as they all speak Thai, still part of the family albeit without me and still has my daughter as company.

If I thought in the long term this would be better for him then I would just leave it, but my ex wife while looking like a loving mum is only intelligent enough to make sure he has basic care, forget things like education etc.

So although it seems as I am being cruel I firmly believe it's in his best interests in the long term at 14 to be with his Dad.

 

She is so immature that she won't talk to me or do what is right to stop all this and immediately send him back to me. So shows what she is like.

 

I guess my question is does anybody know that the guardianship amphur papers are actually binding and she has no right at all to have him at her house, just like I don't with our daughter and it would be like a random person harbouring my son.

I do feel for the kids in all this, I would be more than happy to just act like a normal divorced couple who get along, perhaps go out as a full family now and again, she seems hell bent on this not happening and messing the kids heads up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read your story and sympathize with you

 

as usual, most posters here are full of sxxx

 

I understand the sxxx situation as I was in the same as you

 

maybe worse, who knows...

 

my ex left a month before my visa extension

 

did not want to communicate if she / her lawyer started divorce procedure

 

my dumb ass lawyer thought he would start divorce, went to court and found out ex started procedure... so that trip costed me 35.000 baht for nothing, out of stupidity of my lawyer not asking 2 papers, one to start divorce and one as defendant and I had 3 trips included to court...

 

my ex left with no address, my visa ran out...

 

samut prakarn did not want to convert my extension as I was officially still married

 

ex planned this, so she thought I would leave, to not be on overstay, blabla

 

I was not about to leave my child behind with this psycho, well, in fact she counted that our half time maid would take care of an 13 year old as ex wanted freedom and moved to unknown location...

 

I thought in that time and applied for Elite as I was not near 50...

 

then I saw so many stipulations in the elite, that even you paid, for whatever reason, for example bankrupts after divorce, losing the house for example and still have to pay for mortgage, would be a reason to cancel your paid elite...

 

why pay 500k - 1 million for something that is supposed to cost 1900 B

 

crazy 3rd world banana republic where you have no rights to stay with your kids after divorce...

 

full custody is as good as impossible if you don't BUY your kids from your ex..

 

most judges will go for shared custody...  so I red...

 

I thought of full custody as my ex was nowhere interested or to be found in the child, but did not want to give up parental rights...  nor did she want to help with my visa extension for taking care of the child, even this was agreed in COURT... no penalties for the thai party not respecting the agreement, and lawyers are happy to rip you a new one for writing a WRIT that cost 100k, asking court to force the unwilling party...  crazy...

 

so, I understand your situation more than most here posting bull without reading the original post...

 

about custody and your visa... I got roasted by the IO why this time, my child was not here and I was asking for a retirement visa for the first time.

 

Out of the blue that evil witch stated: I believe your child does not live with you, so no visa extension for you...  while I was there for a retirement visa, with my 800k bank letter, passbook, court agreement to live in the house till child turns 20...

 

Your child has to be there when you extend...

 

if it is the time to go for the extension, better the child is with you and in your care...

 

better not inform the child about this stipulation as it might report to the mom and make sure he does not show up...

 

 

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, kingkenny said:

Yes, even a fool can determine the answer to your question, clearly you can not so let me help you. At no point did I say the were acting outside the law, well without knowledge of their intentions we assume this. The fact remains the father has full legal custody, if at any point he tells the mother the son is to be returned then she must return him, its not rocket science where the law comes into this. If you keep up with the thread you will see the father does not know where she lives so he can't pick him up, so yes, the mother should arrange return.

 

I have not said at any point the boy is being held against his will, but I will say it is not relevant whether he is held against his will or not, the fact is the father has full legal custody, now pay attention to this bit as this negates any other argument you might want to put forward or any defence you want to give to the mother, I will repeat it, the father has full legal custody, this remains in force until the boy is either 21 or married. Maybe you do not understand what full legal custody means, it means irrespective of the boys or the mothers wishes when the father says the boy needs to be returned then the boy needs to be returned.

Again, I do not see how the mother can be legally compelled to physically return the boy. 

 

That the OP does not know where the wife lives seems a bit suspect to me. She (apparently) lives on the way to the boy's school. 

 

Does the father not know where the boy goes to school? Why can't he pick him up there? 

 

If the OP truly cares about the kids (and I do not doubt he does) needs to bite the bullet, an get on reasonable terms with the Ex, whatever it takes. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, john donson said:

I thought in that time and applied for Elite as I was not near 50...

 

then I saw so many stipulations in the elite, that even you paid, for whatever reason, for example bankrupts after divorce, losing the house for example and still have to pay for mortgage, would be a reason to cancel your paid elite...

 

1 hour ago, john donson said:

I believe your child does not live with you, so no visa extension for you...  while I was there for a retirement visa, with my 800k bank letter, passbook, court agreement to live in the house till child turns 20...

 

So you were not of retirement age and couldn't apply for a retirement visa. 

 

Didn't want to apply for Elite Visa because someone scared you that you could lose it if you didn't pay for your Wife's mortgage ?

 

Couldn't get a visa based on Parent of a Thai child because the immigration officer didn't beleive the child was living with you, but you found that out while applying for a retirement visa you were apparently too young for just a paragraph earlier.

 

Confusing stuff.... 

 

Some guys get themselves in such a muddle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

Nasty situation, what can you do, what should you do?

Dont think it is wrong to ask some things, discipline from your kid.

Saw pic of his bedroom. So you are really tolerant.

You had open conversations with him about his thoughts and never the less he is running when he doesn t like it.

Maybe try to have another open conversation about his feelings, what is bothering him. Be aware if his answers could be true. It is not always the truth coming out. Try to have it in a fluffy way, but it's a challenge.

Could be the pressure of the divorce. Maybe he is blaming you.

 

At the same time he is in puberty, again a change in his life.

How to handle, i couldnt say, depends on many factors and then what is the right one and what period has to expire? From one day to the other, or maybe a year. People are in phases of their life and prospections change. 

 

In "my" country, a kid can decide on age 12 where they want to live. Of course takes time in court and whatever needed, if it would happen.

Once asked my kids but not real answer, so i skipped and didnt push.

Eventually my youngest son was kicked by his mom out of her house, when way older. But still mom is so good. She couldnt coop with him for many years and ended when he was about 20-ish, kicking him out of the house. I know he was still visiting his mother afterwards. 

 

I thought I did right as father, even while divorced, but nope. Had some arguing about when they have holidays and always no from bi***h. Havent seen the boys now many years.

They, when mature, 20-ish, thought they could do contact by just a f**** FB or an email with stupid questions and surprise me with that.

Not come to me and have talk, nope.

And ok they are now way more older and still not any of the 2, would have thought they were wrong. So be it, i just had to let go.

Would have seen it otherwise but nope. ????Let it be , let it be????

 

Technically you have legal custody and mom should send her son home. 

I dont see you are unreasonable in your ways.

However you just broke up and the kids probably have all kinds of thoughts(?) and the mother bounding is probably way more stronger then just to a dad and then boring dad is demanding room cleaning.

DOnt get me wrong, i think you did ok in that, but son has other thoughts. Maybe rebellion due to age and /or divorce.

Dont have hope on a jolly going out with the whole family. That ship has sailed. And why would you? You divorced for a reason.

 

You have a tough cookie to crack, wish you succes.

 

[kingkenny]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, I do not see how the mother can be legally compelled to physically return the boy. 

 

That the OP does not know where the wife lives seems a bit suspect to me. She (apparently) lives on the way to the boy's school. 

 

Does the father not know where the boy goes to school? Why can't he pick him up there? 

 

If the OP truly cares about the kids (and I do not doubt he does) needs to bite the bullet, an get on reasonable terms with the Ex, whatever it takes. 

You could bore a glass eye to sleep.

 

Where do I say the mother can be legally forced to return the child? I say legally the child is the custody of the father and therefore should he demand the return of the son then this is what needs to happen. How that happens is another matter.

 

Why is it suspect about not knowing where the ex wife lives? I know the condo where my ex wife lives but I have no idea which floor or room number, should I gain entry and go floor to floor knocking on each door, it happens, people don't always know where others live irrespective of whether it is not the way to the child school or not.

 

As for your last comment, we can't face a relationship if the other person does not want that.

 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

You could bore a glass eye to sleep.

 

Where do I say the mother can be legally forced to return the child?

Right here: 

6 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

I say legally the child is the custody of the father and therefore should he demand the return of the son then this is what needs to happen. How that happens is another matter.

Magic perhaps

6 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

Why is it suspect about not knowing where the ex wife lives? I know the condo where my ex wife lives but I have no idea which floor or room number, should I gain entry and go floor to floor knocking on each door, it happens, people don't always know where others live irrespective of whether it is not the way to the child school or not.

If how many children do you have with your ex? If my wife was keeping my children from me, I think I might put a little effort into finding her, even if I had to walk door to door. Is the father abandoning the daughter because he does not know where the mother lives? 

 

But again, the father does know where the boy goes to school, why not pick him up there? 

6 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

 

As for your last comment, we can't face a relationship if the other person does not want that.

 

But we can make an attempt. The boy is not going to abandon his mother, so she holds the cards.

 

Maybe they will, but I just can't see the police dragging a crying boy out of his mother's home.  

 

[kingkenny]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Right here: 

Magic perhaps

If how many children do you have with your ex? If my wife was keeping my children from me, I think I might put a little effort into finding her, even if I had to walk door to door. Is the father abandoning the daughter because he does not know where the mother lives? 

 

But again, the father does know where the boy goes to school, why not pick him up there? 

But we can make an attempt. The boy is not going to abandon his mother, so she holds the cards.

 

Maybe they will, but I just can't see the police dragging a crying boy out of his mother's home.  

 

Right

 

let's take these one by one:

 

The father has legal custody of the son, I assume we agree on this? If at any point he says the son is to be returned then this needs to happen, I assume we agree on this? If the son is with the mother when the father instructs he is to be returned it is up to the mother to ensure he is returned or picked up, I assume we agree on this? If we don't agree on this I can only assume you have no real understanding of the laws related to this.

 

As for my situation, I have full custody of both my sons, I allow them to see their mother as when they want, if I call and say they are to be returned she knows to return them as she understands I can just block her access in the future.

 

It is easy to say you would walk door to door in a condo building, in the real world however in a situation where the father understands this is a temporary situation that if it goes any longer HE HOLDS ALL THE CARDS LEGALLY. Yes he can go to the school and collect his son, even take the divorce documents with him to show the school who has full legal custody, but would it solve the issue?

 

As for the police, I am sure in such a situation they will do what is legally correct or very simply you move it higher ups the chain of command, are you one of these cowards that just accept their lot here, scared to engage official due to horror stories about the friend of a friend on this forum?

 

There are 2 things at play here, one is doing what he is fully entitled to do under the terms off the divorce, the second is allowing a cooling period, which he appears top be doing but that can't be allowed to go on indefinitely.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, kingkenny said:

The father has legal custody of the son, I assume we agree on this? If at any point he says the son is to be returned then this needs to happen, I assume we agree on this? If the son is with the mother when the father instructs he is to be returned it is up to the mother to ensure he is returned or picked up, I assume we agree on this? If we don't agree on this I can only assume you have no real understanding of the laws related to this.

Thailand has never been very big on enforcing its laws.

Back in the UK, the police rarely enforced any laws involving mothers either.

So all agreeing on the law doesn't make that much difference to any outcome in the real world.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, kingkenny said:

As for the police, I am sure in such a situation they will do what is legally correct or very simply you move it higher ups the chain of command, are you one of these cowards that just accept their lot here, scared to engage official due to horror stories about the friend of a friend on this forum?

I've always avoided rocking the boat in foreign countries.

You may think that's cowardly, but I always thought it was being sensible.

 

I was always happy to look after and pay all expenses for kids living with me.

But once out of my house they got nothing.

 

Splitting up siblings just seems wrong to me.

I'd find another way of getting a VISA or simply move to another country.

[Yellowtail]

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

Right

 

let's take these one by one:

 

The father has legal custody of the son, I assume we agree on this?

Yes

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

 

If at any point he says the son is to be returned then this needs to happen, I assume we agree on this?

No. I think it should happen, but I don't think it needs to happen. 

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

If the son is with the mother when the father instructs he is to be returned it is up to the mother to ensure he is returned or picked up, I assume we agree on this?

If the father instructs who? While the mother is obligated to follow that law, she is not compelled to follow the father's instructions. Do we agree on this? 

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

If we don't agree on this I can only assume you have no real understanding of the laws related to this. 

If law requires the mother drag the child out to the car and deliver them to the husband against the child's will any time the husband instructs her to do so, then yes, that is not how I understand the law. 

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

As for my situation, I have full custody of both my sons, I allow them to see their mother as when they want, if I call and say they are to be returned she knows to return them as she understands I can just block her access in the future.

How would you block her access in the future, if your boys were fifteen, and kept going to visit her on the way to school? 

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

 

It is easy to say you would walk door to door in a condo building, in the real world however in a situation where the father understands this is a temporary situation that if it goes any longer HE HOLDS ALL THE CARDS LEGALLY. Yes he can go to the school and collect his son, even take the divorce documents with him to show the school who has full legal custody, but would it solve the issue?

So how is the issue solved without any cooperation from the mother? 

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

 

As for the police, I am sure in such a situation they will do what is legally correct or very simply you move it higher ups the chain of command, are you one of these cowards that just accept their lot here, scared to engage official due to horror stories about the friend of a friend on this forum?

I do not doubt if the law requires the boy be dragged from the mother's home and returned to the father, the police will drag the boy from the mother's home and return him to the father. 

 

But how would that solve the issue? 

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

There are 2 things at play here, one is doing what he is fully entitled to do under the terms off the divorce, the second is allowing a cooling period, which he appears top be doing but that can't be allowed to go on indefinitely.

So, the plan is that after the cooling off period, the boy comes back and that's the end of it. 

[kingkenny]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've always avoided rocking the boat in foreign countries.

You may think that's cowardly, but I always thought it was being sensible.

 

I was always happy to look after and pay all expenses for kids living with me.

But once out of my house they got nothing.

 

Splitting up siblings just seems wrong to me.

I'd find another way of getting a VISA or simply move to another country.

I have read both your posts. I am not sure how doing the correct thing is rocking the boat. In 19 years I have had 2 dealings with the courts, both successful, both related to employees. It's the fear of doing the correct thing that allows the bad apples to function.