Husband signed contract for estranged wife’s condo finance. Responsible?

[JeffersLos]

Could he be legally responsible for it? It would be a bit late now. ????

 

My foreign neighbor arrived back 2 weeks, and it turns out he came back to Bangkok from Pattaya to sign some documents for his estranged wife that was buying a condo with a finance or bank for a 30 year loan based on her legal employment. 

 

I’ve spent a lot more time in Thailand than he has, and I severely doubt his estranged wife will be able to pay back the monthly payments for the next 5 years, never mind the next 30 years.

 

I asked what he signed, and he said just some finance contracts where they needed his passport and visa copies, and his signature on all the contracts because she is his wife. He went to the bank with the agent and estranged wife and signed documents with them.

 

I mentioned that if she defaults, which I imagine that she will because the payments must be a massive amount of her salary, that he could be legally responsible for it. He didn’t really believe me.

 

I think the first payment is due next month. ???? 

 

He said no, because they deduct the payments straight from her salary, she works for CP, and apparently they have special arrangements for their employees to get such things as mortgages quite easily, no doubt through companies they also own. ????

 

I’m right, right?

 

[MrJ2U]

He needs collateral to sign for the loan.

 

He's responsible if she doesn't keep up with the payments. 

[Celsius]

She works for CP doing what?

[Myran]

Sounds like he's the guarantor, so he's absolutely liable for it if she doesn't pay.

[NoDisplayName]

10 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

he said just some finance contracts where they needed his passport and visa copies, and his signature on all the contracts because she is his wife. He went to the bank with the agent and estranged wife and signed documents with them.

Were any documents in English?

Can he read Thai?

Did the agent promise "nothing to worry about, just a formality"?

[Liverpool Lou]

21 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

He's responsible if she doesn't keep up with the payments. 

Only if he did jointly sign a loan agreement or acted as guarantor.  Spouses do not automatically become responsible for the others debts if they were taken out solely by her and he in no way benefited from it.

[Liverpool Lou]

24 minutes ago, Celsius said:

She works for CP doing what?

What's that got to do with it?

[JeffersLos]

43 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Were any documents in English?

Can he read Thai?

Nope. He said he a signed a few pages of the contract as her husband. As she is legally married, the husband needed to sign the documents too.

 

He didn't need to show any financial documents or anything else.

 

He arrived in the morning, showed up at the finance bank with his passport, he signed a few pages of the contract and that was it.

 

56 minutes ago, Myran said:

Sounds like he's the guarantor, so he's absolutely liable for it if she doesn't pay.

Well I doubt that. Wouldn't he have had to show some financial stuff first? ????

 

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

She works for CP doing what?

Working.

[Myran]

13 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

Nope. He said he a signed a few pages of the contract as her husband. As she is legally married, the husband needed to sign the documents too.

 

He didn't need to show any financial documents or anything else.

 

He arrived in the morning, showed up at the finance bank with his passport, he signed a few pages of the contract and that was it.

 

Well I doubt that. Wouldn't he have had to show some financial stuff first? ????

 

Not sure what the procedure is for something as big of a purchase as a condo, but my wife signed as guarantor when a relative bought a car on finance, without showing anything related to her finances (she basically didn't own anything at that point and didn't have an income anyway).

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

He needs collateral to sign for the loan.

 

He's responsible if she doesn't keep up with the payments. 

Seems to me, to put it in plain English he has signed to be her guarantor. And if she defaults on payments 

he's responsible to pay up. 

 

OK she works for CP and they help staff to get loans (maybe) and help to make payments easy by deducting money from salary and sending it to the person/institution who granted the loan.

 

That absolutely clearly DOESN'T mean CP is the guarantor for the loan.

 

Why would CP ever put their company into such a situation? They wouldn't

 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by scorecard

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

Seems to me, to put it in plain English he has signed to be her guarantor. And if she defaults on payments 

he's responsible to pay up. 

 

OK she works for CP and they help staff to get loans (maybe) and help to make payments easy by deducting money from salary and sending it to the person/institution who granted the loan.

 

That absolutely clearly DOESN'T mean CP is the guarantor for the loan.

 

Why would CP ever put their company into such a situation? They wouldn't

 

 

He signed some pages as her husband. What does that mean? Why? 

[scorecard]

8 minutes ago, Myran said:

Not sure what the procedure is for something as big of a purchase as a condo, but my wife signed as guarantor when a relative bought a car on finance, without showing anything related to her finances (she basically didn't own anything at that point and didn't have an income anyway).

Maybe true, but it's very unusual for a bank to accept someone as a guarantor without checking whether that person could pay up if needed.

 

This is all about risk management, and banks / finance institutions always make sure they have a situation where the risk to the bank is well covered.  

[blackcab]

Civil and Commercial Code Section 1476: You need the permission of your spouse to obtain a mortgage on immovable property.

 

Without a spousal signature the bank will not lend because the debt would be unenforceable.

 

However, now the gentleman in question has signed he is both jointly and severally liable for the debt as a result of Civil and Commercial Code Section 1490 (4).

 

This isn't because he is a guarantor, it is because he is a co-signer with his wife.

 

That being said he will only be in real trouble if he owns a condo unit in his own name, as that is an asset the bank can easily find if they need to.

 

He might also want to keep significant sums of money in a different bank to that which holds his wife's mortgage, as he may have signed a Right to Set Off. This means if his wife doesn't pay the mortgage the bank can deduct the money owed from any of his accounts with the same bank.

 

Not what you would want if you keep 800k set aside at the same bank for your retirement extension...

[JeffersLos]

5 hours ago, blackcab said:

Civil and Commercial Code Section 1476: You need the permission of your spouse to obtain a mortgage on immovable property.

 

Without a spousal signature the bank will not lend

That's interesting. That no married Thai will be granted a mortgage without their spouse also signing on the dotted line. 

 

5 hours ago, blackcab said:

now the gentleman in question has signed he is both jointly and severally liable for the debt as a result of Civil and Commercial Code Section 1490 (4).

 

This isn't because he is a guarantor, it is because he is a co-signer with his wife.

Interesting. 

 

Couldn't he just say no, that he's got zero interest in the property or paying for it, and tell them to take the property and sell it?

[blackcab]

On 7/19/2023 at 6:34 AM, JeffersLos said:

Couldn't he just say no, that he's got zero interest in the property or paying for it, and tell them to take the property and sell it?

 

He can say what he wants, but the bank will follow its procedures.

 

If the bank can not obtain payment for the mortgage eventually the property will be repossessed and sold.

 

The balance owed after any such action will still be owed jointly and severally.

 

At this point the bank can ask the Court for an attachment of earnings order against his wife, and seek out assets of the husband also.

 

The most obvious assets are condominium units, vehicles and cash held in bank accounts.

[Celsius]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What's that got to do with it?

 

Because depending on her position she may indeed got great terms on her loan.

 

My wife still knows a lot of people in that company and most of them are good with money and don't face any financial problems. Some of the best people work there.

[BritManToo]

13 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

I asked what he signed, and he said just some finance contracts where they needed his passport and visa copies, and his signature on all the contracts because she is his wife. He went to the bank with the agent and estranged wife and signed documents with them.

Odd that, when my wife bought a house on mortgage the only documents I signed were at the land office stating the purchase was nothing to do with me.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

 

He can say what he wants, but the bank will follow its procedures.

 

If the bank can not obtain payment for the mortgage eventually the property will be repossessed and sold.

 

The balance owed after any such action will still be owed jointly and severally.

 

At this point the bank can ask the Court for an attachment of earnings order against hus wife, and seek out assets of the husband also.

 

The most obvious assets are condominium units, vehicles and cash held in bank accounts.

I wonder if that clause is still in common use?

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

I wonder if that clause is still in common use?

 

Banks are obliged to their shareholders to promote the success of the company.

 

Banks do not randomly decide to not recover money owed by debtors. As you know, they have whole departments dedicated to recovering their money or selling on the debt if they have no success.

 

If a bank can recover money easily and cheaply then that will be their first choice.

[JeffersLos]

He laughed and said he'd put his condo in his son's name and transfer his money to his bank account if there was ever a knock on the door. ????

 

Sounds fair enough. 

[worgeordie]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:04 PM, JeffersLos said:

I severely doubt his estranged wife will be able to pay back the monthly payments for the next 5 years, never mind the next 30 years.

Estranged wife !!!, well she's definitely not going to be paying it back ,

 

regards worgeordie

[JeffersLos]

29 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

she's definitely not going to be paying it back ,

That's correct. Apparently it's deducted automatically from her CP salary. So CP will be paying it back to a mortgage company they probably own, via a bank that they also probably own. ????

[Colabamumbai]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:08 PM, Celsius said:

She works for CP doing what?

Killing chickens. 

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

Killing chickens. 

Not true. As with many other posters with Thai wives on ASEAN, she is the CFO, with an MBA from Harvard.

[hotchilli]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:04 PM, JeffersLos said:

Could he be legally responsible for it? It would be a bit late now.

If he signed as a guarantor yes.

[thailand49]

All the speculation?

 

First it sounds he has no clue what was signed,  conveyed to a friend who now is trying to figure it out. 

 

We will know in a few months won't we. 

[rwill]

Better option would have been to get a divorce first.

 

But perhaps they still have plans of reconciliation.

[Srikcir]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:04 PM, JeffersLos said:

his estranged wife

"estanged" - a loss of affection, a turning away from someone. Still married and husband does what he feels will improve their relationship. In the long run might be financially cheaper than a divorce.

[ignore it]

A man who signs a contract benefitting his estranged wife deserves the consequences.