Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[Tug]

34 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

If anyone thinks this will see the inside of a courtroom in may forget it. This like Russia Russia Russia will end up a nothingburger. His lawyers will delay it until after the 2024 election.

 

The whole thing is to deflect the public attention away from the real criminals. 

 

Once again the media are controlling the sheep of America. The same media that conned the American people while Joe sat in a bunker eating Choc chip ice cram and was hardly seen in the public eye yet somehow became president.

 

The  Election was stolen ok but not in the way Trump said but by the worlds most dishonest biased media.

 

This Hunter/Joe Biden saga would be front page news of every rag and newstation in the uk no matter which party their leaders were with but in American the Clintons and The Bidens are protected and if you can't see that you really do need a reality check.

 

An Example: A huge story: The President of the USA is being accused of taking bribes and selling out his country BUT go find the story on MSNBC one of the nations biggest news companies. Or how about CNN......Trump news before these indictments was found on the front page but the Biden story hidden away in the politics section.

 

Be in denial if you like but the Election that put that dummy Biden in charge was rigged by people like Soros and the fake news media.

 

Trump wass doing great things for America and the first thing Joe Biden was instructed to do was tear down everything Trump had done.

 

America immeditaly lost people their lives in Afghanastan Putin with Trump gone attacks Ukraine Little rocket man starts playing with his toys again the world is in chaos thousands dying and even in sunny Thailand the cost of living has gone up more athan at any time oin the last 20 years thanks to Biden messing everything up.

 

However not even the sheep can be conned agin and Trump will become President again IMO.......if not i seriously question the sanity of the American people.

 

 

Ahhh ok if you say so ????

[Danderman123]

What are the possibilities that Trump appeals a conviction all the way up to the Supreme Court, which then overturns the verdict because reasons?

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Enabled this. Enabled that.

You voted for the guy, my post  provoked an epiphany and now that's your confession?

Edited August 3, 2023 by LosLobo

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

What are the possibilities that Trump appeals a conviction all the way up to the Supreme Court, which then overturns the verdict because reasons?

Strong.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

You voted for the guy, my post  provoked an epiphany and now that's your confession?

Well I did feel a brief need to barf, I do admit that.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

What are the possibilities that Trump appeals a conviction all the way up to the Supreme Court, which then overturns the verdict because reasons?

Lets hope he gets that conviction first. If so from then on its all uncharted territory. 

 

One scenario is that he can still be president from jail, but if he is president he can technically also pardon himself so no need for Supreme court. Although I guess at some point they would be involved in some way.

 

The other scenario is of course he does not get enough votes to win the election so I guess then yes it would eventually end up in Supreme Court?

[Danderman123]

47 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lets hope he gets that conviction first. If so from then on its all uncharted territory. 

 

One scenario is that he can still be president from jail, but if he is president he can technically also pardon himself so no need for Supreme court. Although I guess at some point they would be involved in some way.

 

The other scenario is of course he does not get enough votes to win the election so I guess then yes it would eventually end up in Supreme Court?

Trump cannot pardon his way out of a New York or Georgia conviction.

 

One scenario is that Trump announces he is going to pardon himself for his Federal crimes, if elected, and then New York and/or Georgia judges give him maximum sentences after hearing that.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump cannot pardon his way out of a New York or Georgia conviction.

 

One scenario is that Trump announces he is going to pardon himself for his Federal crimes, if elected, and then New York and/or Georgia judges give him maximum sentences after hearing that.

Well I was referring to these indictments but there's a little more on that in a new topic.

 

"Some analysts have suggested that Mr Trump could try to pardon himself if he was convicted and then won the election."

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1302434-could-trump-go-to-prison-and-other-key-questions/

 

[Danderman123]

The possibility that Trump could appeal any conviction to the Supreme Court is one of those lies by omission that I referred to earlier (concerning CNN and MSNBC).

 

If Trump's convictions are overturned by the Supremes, I would expect the usual legal analysts to say:

 

"We knew that Trump would appeal to a favorable Supreme Court, but his many convictions have shown the magnitude of his guilt. Maybe he never served time, but his reputation has been shattered."

 

I just wish that these same legal experts would mention appeals to the SC, when today they claim Trump is toast.

[pomchop]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Why should you be spared? 

Because i am tired of even attempting to have any kind of rational discussions with trumpers who will not accept reality regardless of pile after pile of evidence even when provided by republicans.  

[pomchop]

28 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well I was referring to these indictments but there's a little more on that in a new topic.

 

"Some analysts have suggested that Mr Trump could try to pardon himself if he was convicted and then won the election."

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1302434-could-trump-go-to-prison-and-other-key-questions/

 

It is my understanding that if trump is charged and convicted in Georgia and sentenced to prison that no president has the power to pardon him of a state conviction but the gov of the state or a board of pardons could pardon state convicted criminals.  I guess that would then depend on if Gov is a dem or a repub and how he felt about it all.....talk about pressure??  Does anyone know for sure?

 

  As for feds if he were to win he would not officially be president til jan 20 ( and presumably would be sitting in jail) at which time he would try  and  pardon himself it would no doubt go to supreme court...and if that drags out I assume he would have to sit in jail until when and if the supremes said yes he can pardon himself he would then be freed from jail........so theoretically the POTUS would sit in a jail cell till sorted out.....or if supremes said no he cannot pardon himself you would have a president serving from a jail cell......what a mess.

 

if anyone can verify above please do as I am not totally sure how all that would work?  Or maybe nobody knows for sure as we have never had anything close.

[ozimoron]

Maybe the Republicans will realize soon that Trump[ is not that good at politics. His single attraction to many is his racism. That isn't going to be enough to get him elected. It wasn't in 2020 and nuthing has changed that will improve his numbers in 2024, if he even gets the nomination. He isn't going to debate and that will kill his candidacy.

[watthong]

43 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Because i am tired of even attempting to have any kind of rational discussions with trumpers who will not accept reality regardless of pile after pile of evidence even when provided by republicans. 

This is precisely how a MAGA troll operates. Tire you out with their nonsense, irk you to feed them and if you do so wallow in their cesspool of endless non-intel detritus and the thread soon dies of lack of oxygen (intelligent/sensible) discussion, because reasonable folks just don't want to dip their toes into the muck.

 

In short they hijack the thread, turn it into a zombie spreading their worms. The mystery remain how many folks can't seem to refrain themselves from engaging in this kind of nonsensical "debate" and would write long posts responding to the trolls few choice button-pushing words, in the vain hope that these trolls would see the "light..." However by doing that they help the trolls kill the thread (whether that was intentional or not is another matter.)

 

This thread could have been a gloriously lively debate, the day this indictment came out should be enshrined as a national holiday, but so far, a lot of keystrokes have been performed in the service of a few trolls taking turn holding the fort.

[watthong]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

What are the possibilities that Trump appeals a conviction all the way up to the Supreme Court, which then overturns the verdict because reasons?

Call me politically miopic but my personally feeling SC is a bridge too far for now. We'll cross when we come to it. Let's get "some" conviction(s) first so we can "toast" Trump (in every sense of the word). The ride is gonna be fun. For every Cannon we get a Chutkan. My interest now turns on the unindicted ones. Why is it declared to be just six? 

[Berkshire]

58 minutes ago, watthong said:

This is precisely how a MAGA troll operates. Tire you out with their nonsense, irk you to feed them and if you do so wallow in their cesspool of endless non-intel detritus and the thread soon dies of lack of oxygen (intelligent/sensible) discussion, because reasonable folks just don't want to dip their toes into the muck.

 

In short they hijack the thread, turn it into a zombie spreading their worms. The mystery remain how many folks can't seem to refrain themselves from engaging in this kind of nonsensical "debate" and would write long posts responding to the trolls few choice button-pushing words, in the vain hope that these trolls would see the "light..." However by doing that they help the trolls kill the thread (whether that was intentional or not is another matter.)

 

This thread could have been a gloriously lively debate, the day this indictment came out should be enshrined as a national holiday, but so far, a lot of keystrokes have been performed in the service of a few trolls taking turn holding the fort.

Good one.  Yeah, one can't win an argument with a MAGA troll because these people are so far gone.  If you confront them with facts, they either change the subject or disappear like a fart in the wind.  I'm just glad the law finally caught up with their cult leader.  I hope Trump bleeds his supporters dry with his endless requests/demands for money.  They truly deserve each other. 

[jerrymahoney]

Trump Election Charges Set Up Clash of Lies Versus Free Speech
By Michael S. Schmidt and Maggie Haberman
NYTimes Aug. 2, 2023

 

The experts and defense lawyers who read the indictment against Mr. Trump said that claiming that he was relying on the advice of lawyers was likely to provide Mr. Trump with a stronger defense than if he invoked the First Amendment.

 

In the interview on CBS, Mr. Lauro leaned into that argument, saying that Mr. Trump had a “smoking gun of innocence” in a memo that the conservative legal scholar John Eastman wrote for him. The memo said Mr. Trump could ask Mr. Pence to pause the congressional certification of the election. Mr. Eastman was not a White House lawyer at the time.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/us/politics/trump-indictment-lies-vs-free-speech.html

https://archive.is/Qr4VC

[FritsSikkink]

On 8/2/2023 at 7:33 AM, bamnutsak said:

READ THE INDICTMENT

 

https://apnews.com/trump-election-2020-indictment

 

 

 

The traitor is toast.

[FritsSikkink]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:34 AM, bignok said:

I don't anything real here. All fake trumped up charges. He didn't cause the riots. All he did was question the election results.

 

 

You obviously haven't read the indictment otherwise you wouldn't say that.

[watthong]

20 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

In the interview on CBS, Mr. Lauro leaned into that argument, saying that Mr. Trump had a “smoking gun of innocence” in a memo that the conservative legal scholar John Eastman wrote for him. The memo said Mr. Trump could ask Mr. Pence to pause the congressional certification of the election. Mr. Eastman was not a White House lawyer at the time.

 

This plea of innocence is bewildering to me. Is it going to work as plea of insanity? Of course we all know that both instances it can be faked.  If this is the case I can always hire a lawyer who would tell me it's legal to rob a bank,  then go rob a bank. Can I plead innocence/blame  it on my lawyer then?

[Walker88]

5 hours ago, Tanlic said:

 

 

The whole thing is to deflect the public attention away from the real criminals.

Once again the media are controlling the sheep of America.

 

Be in denial if you like but the Election that put that dummy Biden in charge was rigged by people like Soros and the fake news media.

 

Trump wass doing great things for America and the first thing Joe Biden was instructed to do was tear down everything Trump had done.

 

However not even the sheep can be conned agin and Trump will become President again IMO.......if not i seriously question the sanity of the American people.

 

 

Baaaa!!!! I'm one of those sheeple who believes in the Constitution and rule of law. You prefer the twice impeached, thrice indicted, convicted sexual offender and charity fraudster trump. I guess you also like the high unemployment the incompetent 6-time bankrupted clown left, along with his Recession and the additional $7,800,000,000,000 in new National Debt he added in just 4 years of playing golf (at a cost to the Taxpayer of more than $172 million, according to trump's OMB), holding rallies and calling into Fox. AT least you didn't shoot up Lysol or stick a UV light up your fatuga.

 

I see you got the Soros anti-semitic thing working, too. Were you one of those bloated tikitorch marchers at Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us !"

 

trump pooped on the Constitution. The crybaby couldn't accept that he lost, so tried to overthrow 250 years of US democracy....and that according to HIS REPUBLICAN Staff. Frankly, that is Sedition, and hopefully Jack Smith will add to the indictment, as Sedition is a capital offense and could get trump the electric chair.

 

As for President Biden, I guess you and conner are still looking for the supposed witness, but that guy (an unregistered China agent) is hiding out because he was violating international sanctions by brokering Iranian oil, as well as trying to broker arms sales to Iran. Mossad is not going to like that, and may do the needful.

 

How about the stolen documents case? Are you one of those who believes trump 'declassified with his thoughts', or are you one who thinks the FBI planted them? trump claimed both, and oddly, his poorly educated and brain addled cult believed both.

 

Please tell me why a country club owner and wedding planner needs TS/SCI, Codeword, SAP, HCS and RD documents? I long held a TS/SC clearance, had classification authority, and damn if I know why he would need that stuff, unless he intended to monetize it.

 

In my opinion trump is a conman traitor deserving of jail time with these slam dunk cases, and if Jack Smith charges him with Sedition and gets a conviction, the electric chair will 'make America great again' by scorching trump.

[bignok]

3 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Baaaa!!!! I'm one of those sheeple who believes in the Constitution and rule of law. You prefer the twice impeached, thrice indicted, convicted sexual offender and charity fraudster trump. I guess you also like the high unemployment the incompetent 6-time bankrupted clown left, along with his Recession and the additional $7,800,000,000,000 in new National Debt he added in just 4 years of playing golf (at a cost to the Taxpayer of more than $172 million, according to trump's OMB), holding rallies and calling into Fox. AT least you didn't shoot up Lysol or stick a UV light up your fatuga.

 

I see you got the Soros anti-semitic thing working, too. Were you one of those bloated tikitorch marchers at Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us !"

 

trump pooped on the Constitution. The crybaby couldn't accept that he lost, so tried to overthrow 250 years of US democracy....and that according to HIS REPUBLICAN Staff. Frankly, that is Sedition, and hopefully Jack Smith will add to the indictment, as Sedition is a capital offense and could get trump the electric chair.

 

As for President Biden, I guess you and conner are still looking for the supposed witness, but that guy (an unregistered China agent) is hiding out because he was violating international sanctions by brokering Iranian oil, as well as trying to broker arms sales to Iran. Mossad is not going to like that, and may do the needful.

 

How about the stolen documents case? Are you one of those who believes trump 'declassified with his thoughts', or are you one who thinks the FBI planted them? trump claimed both, and oddly, his poorly educated and brain addled cult believed both.

 

Please tell me why a country club owner and wedding planner needs TS/SCI, Codeword, SAP, HCS and RD documents? I long held a TS/SC clearance, had classification authority, and damn if I know why he would need that stuff, unless he intended to monetize it.

 

In my opinion trump is a conman traitor deserving of jail time with these slam dunk cases, and if Jack Smith charges him with Sedition and gets a conviction, the electric chair will 'make America great again' by scorching trump.

Gee so bitter

[Walker88]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

Gee so bitter

No, troll. I'm what you call a patriot.

 

I think that term is unfamiliar to you, as it is to all trumpers. trumpers hate democracy, the Constitution and rule of law, where all are equal under it.

 

The concept probably is a stretch to his cult, who are---to put it nicely---people who make turnips seem like John von Neumann in comparison.

[xylophone]

18 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Perhaps a trumper can explain a few things connected to this latest indictment:

 

-Why did trump Tweet and encourage his cult to "come to Washington on 6 January; it'll be wild !". What purpose could be served by having people come when a simple pro forma certification of the election result was taking place? What could be "wild" about that?

 

-Why did trump, at his rally on the Mall, tell his cult to 'march with me to the Capitol' and 'fight like hell', and 'take our country back'? Take back from what? The election result was clear.

 

-Why did trump tell security to remove the metal detectors from his rally, despite being told some people are carrying arms. Why would trump think it might be okay for armed cultists to march to the Capitol?

 

-Why did trump try to pressure Georgia SecState to 'just find me 11,780 votes'? Find them? Where?

 

-Why did trump willfully participate in the effort to appoint fake electors?

 

If trump is so clean and this is all a witch hunt, why did trump do those things?

Nice post but you are wasting your time replying to the rubes as they are not "the sharpest knives in the drawer" as can be seen from the replies from the thread's foremost trump supporter:-

 

-What for? He didnt do anything (about trump).

 

-I don't anything real here. All fake trumped up charges. He didn't cause the riots. All he did was question the election results (yeah right).

 

-Just facts. Millions of people tell lies. Why arent they in jail? 99.9% of people lie. (this one is a doozy).

 

-The whole thing is political. They waited 3 years. ????

[jerrymahoney]

Well it seems to me that, to prove a conspiracy under  18USC371, the defendant and at least one other person would have to propven to have known that what they were doing was illegal.

 

That is contained in the 4-part Federal Court jury instructions under that statute as showing " intent to achieve a common goal(s) or objective(s), to commit an offense(s) against the United States;

Edited August 3, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[bignok]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well it seems to me that, to prove a conspiracy under  18USC371, the defendant and at least one other person would have to propven to have known that what they were doing was illegal.

 

That is contained in the 4-part Federal Court jury instructions under that statute as showing " intent to achieve a common goal(s) or objective(s), to commit an offense(s) against the United States;

Either way be appealed until end. Its a political hunt to save Biden from losing.

[watthong]

8 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well it seems to me that, to prove a conspiracy under  18USC371, the defendant and at least one other person would have to propven to have known that what they were doing was illegal.

 

Trump REFUSED to know. So how does that argument go? That's ultimately he DOESN'T know?

[bignok]

https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-host-mark-levin-says-indictments-donald-trump-are-passive-revolution

[watthong]

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Nice post but you are wasting your time replying to the rubes as they are not "the sharpest knives in the drawer" as can be seen from the replies from the thread's foremost trump supporter:-

 

-What for? He didnt do anything (about trump).

 

-I don't anything real here. All fake trumped up charges. He didn't cause the riots. All he did was question the election results (yeah right).

 

-Just facts. Millions of people tell lies. Why arent they in jail? 99.9% of people lie. (this one is a doozy).

 

-The whole thing is political. They waited 3 years. ????

Yeah, proof that their brains has turned to mush.  Hard to detox oneself, if ever,  from Trump kool-aid.

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, watthong said:

Trump REFUSED to know. So how does that argument go? That's ultimately he DOESN'T know?

I was just trying to the comments of Trump attorney Lauro in the NYTimes article which is mostly about debunking the free speech argument.

 

The is a 100 year case history to that 371 statute and anybody who comes on here or elsewhere and says this is a slam dunk jury trial should think again.

Edited August 3, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[watthong]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

I was just trying to the comments of Trump attorney Lauro in the NYTimes article which is mostly about debunking the free speech argument.

That was a genuine question of mine, not a criticism. Sorry if it sounded that way.