Retirement visa overhaul in the wind, gangs run out of town : Tim Newton Today - August 2

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Hey it’s all speculation & I hope we’re all wasting our time discussing something that amounts to nothing. 
 

But if the money in the bank requirement does go up, then I think it’s a Probability that the monthly income requirement will go up as the 2 things have always been more or less in step with each other. 

If you're here already it will be grandfathered. 

This happened with me in the last big change, from 200k-400k.

[fulhamster]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

nonsense

 

you might see a clampdown on agent use and maybe criminal check but that's about it, I don't see a change in thesholds and even if it does change there are still people here on money thresholds from 20 years ago as they were grandfathered

Or the use of agents could well increase significantly

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, proton said:

All speculation, but whatever they do re the requirements they need to close the loophole allowing officers to take bribes to ignore them, as well as extensions being issued to those from other provinces. If they don't, upping the requirements will just increase the corrupt agents business

Seeing as the requirements could be much higher, I would expect the cost to bypass/ignore, get around them, ie facilitation costs, to also increase! Certainly do not expect that money spinner to go anywhere! Surachate Hakparn, tried to quell this years go and got moved to an inactive post!

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

nonsense

 

you might see a clampdown on agent use and maybe criminal check but that's about it, I don't see a change in thesholds and even if it does change there are still people here on money thresholds from 20 years ago as they were grandfathered

It was 19 years ago that the thresholds were raised, about time since inflation is around 10% per year. 

[ukrules]

58 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Criminals are like: ehh ok, then we just setup a business or other structure, or pay more money.

The most successful of all the criminals don't have any kind of criminal record, they will be laughing at this.

 

[brianthainess]

And what about the banks, that are complicit, in giving IMO false bank statements to Agents/Immigration. How does that even work? 

[kingstonkid]

As the late great UBONJOE used to state let's wait and see there is so much going on in this country that no one really knows what they are doing.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, very few people on U.S. social security would qualify.

I can't see that happening with Thailand ads about getting people retire in Thailand, it seems to me they want more retirees here they not want to put people off.

[sqwakvfr]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Malaysia recently did a big overhaul of the MM2H program and it has seen numbers drop significantly.  Makes places like the Phils and Cambodia look more attractive by the day. Heck in Cambodia all it takes is $170 for a one year visa.  No signing in, no reporting, and it is multiple re-entry as well. I think in the Philippines you just need $10,000 for your visa. Or you can pretty much stay for 3 years by renewing and renewing your original visa free entry. 

 

A mistake IMHO if the financial requirements in Thailand are raised. Stricter enforcement, perhaps making the rules less subject to regional variations and the whims of individual immigrantion officers, those would make sense. 

The PI is called SRRV.  It has 4 different options.  The simplest is $20,000 deposit into a PI bank without a pension.  But the SRRV process can be a month or more.  It requires a home country criminal background check, financial documents and a medical exam done in the PI.  So for those who are seeking something similar like the Thai Non O Retirement Ext of Stay this might not be a good fit. 

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

And what about the banks, that are complicit, in giving IMO false bank statements to Agents/Immigration. How does that even work? 

It's a joke. One guy told me he paid an agent in Pattaya, who took him to the bank which had an immigration officer present. 

Think I'll write to my old pal who was Finance Minister and who helped me get interest from a bank that didn't give interest to foreigners. He caused quite a stir when he shared my photo of a tip box in Khon Kaen immigration on his public Facebook page. 

Immigration are part of the Royal Thai Police and when they are breaking the law, accepting bribes, intimidating honest foreigners to use agents, etc, the people want to know and stop them. 

Ever wonder why agents don't have a Web page? 

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Let's hope those biker gangs are kicked out for good, or at least not allowed to wear their colours. The last thing I want in Thailand is to see Banditos or Hell's Angel criminals. Foreigners should respect Thai culture and these outlaws certainly don't. 

Perhaps retirement visas should be made reciprocal with the rest of the world. Thailand has developed a lot in the past decade and visa fees remained the same, and currently it is far from fair when a Thai must pay invest 17 million baht in the US to get a retirement visa, and it's very hard in the UK. I'd say at least 10 million baht for those from the US in the bank at all times, until the US government reciprocates. As for Brits and Australian, they should  show at least 150k baht a month in pension, again unless their governments reciprocate. Retirees in Thailand have had it easy too long and the police are not happy with all the foreign crime, so anyone with a criminal record should not get a long-term stay.

 

Your thread has certainly baffled me.

 

You are comparing retirees to foreign crime? Nonsense! or is it just because they are ' foreign ' you draw this comparison?

 

Also, you are comparing vastly different economies and putting them altogether like a scrambled jigsaw with the pieces not fitting.

 

You do not mention the inequality with Thais married to British nationals being allowed to work, settle,  open businesses freely , buy land and houses in their own name in the UK?  

 

How does that compare with a British guy married to a Thai women in Thailand with the reporting to immigration and money in the bank etc  and no land rights or property rights? 

 

Isaarn would still be in the stone-age but for a very significant amount of foreigners buying houses, building houses, buying cars and definitely putting a positive impact into the economy. They certainly haven't been scrounging from the Thai state as there is nothing for them to scrounge.

 

Why should a Brit or Aussie need to have 150K income to stay in Thailand when for many 50/60K will suffice?  Many foreigners live comfortably on this and the average Police major is only around 25K a month and I think that is similar to a doctor in government hospitals.

 

And if things are going to be made ' reciprocal ' then that should apply to us having land and property rights and not having to say where we are every 90 days, because Thais bloody don't in the UK.

 

I think you are talking apples and oranges and being very selective in your comparisons.

 

I can't see the retirement O extensions moving much at all, maybe it will on health insurance, considering the rebound in the economy is nowhere near what TAT would like everybody to believe.

[Mike Teavee]

26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If you're here already it will be grandfathered. 

This happened with me in the last big change, from 200k-400k.

Fingers crossed, but as pointed out to me on another thread, they didn't Grandfather in existing Non-IMM OA holders when they introduced the Health Insurance requirement or existing Non-IMM O/OA holders when they made the 800K mandatory for 5 months & 400K for 7 months so who knows what the new government will do. 

 

I just hope whatever happens, consideration is given to guys who have lived here for years & simply don't have "a Home" to go back to anymore.

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Scouse123 said:

You are comparing retirees to foreign crime? Nonsense! or is it just because they are ' foreign ' you draw this comparison?

Not at all, separate. 

I was talking about 1%er biker gangs. 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Presumably if they up the deposit to 1.2Million, they’ll up the 65K to 100K pm

 

Thats a significant income to have to have each month, especially as it needs to be Nett of all taxes & any expenses in your home country (approx. £31,500 pa before tax or £2,308b pm after tax).

Every falangie I know here are married and either still have retire extension or marriage extension.

 

2 of them don't have to show money they get 15 months stay in Thailand but have to go out of Thailand to Laos and come back in.

 

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Ever wonder why agents don't have a Web page? 

That is nonsense, they usually have web pages!

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, kuzie57 said:

On that premise you would be looking at 100k PM. Total speculation. 

 

I don't think that will happen, I think many would leave and many other not bother with Thailand other for holiday.

[redwood1]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It was 19 years ago that the thresholds were raised, about time since inflation is around 10% per year. 

Has Social Security gone up 10% a year for 19 years?......Ha..Ha.....Social Security has only risen just a small bit from 19 years ago.....Most people dont even get 65,000 baht a month ...

[Mike Teavee]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Every falangie I know here are married and either still have retire extension or marriage extension.

 

2 of them don't have to show money they get 15 months stay in Thailand but have to go out of Thailand to Laos and come back in.

 

Presumably they get a 1 year Multi (90 day) Entry Non-IMM O (would need to show the 400/800K in some bank or some proof of income to get) & do a border bounce towards the end of it to get the extra 3 months. 

 

Very easy for Marriage visa holders, not so easy for Retirees nowadays though that's the Visa I started on (got it in Penang when I was working in Singapore, used the 800K in my Thai bank, Singapore pay slips & a letter from the British Embassy confirming income - unfortunately the British & American/Australian Embassies no longer provide these ). 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[freeworld]

25 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It was 19 years ago that the thresholds were raised, about time since inflation is around 10% per year. 

Inflation should not be considered.

 

Real wages and money has not kept up with real inflation and in most govts eyes 800k is a lot of money (I guess except for Thai immigration bosses and certain Thai people)

 

800k is still a lot of money to keep stuck in a bank account earning pitiful interest.

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

You do not mention the inequality with Thais married to British nationals being allowed to work, settle,  open businesses freely , buy land and houses in their own name in the UK?  

 

How does that compare with a British guy married to a Thai women in Thailand with the reporting to immigration and money in the bank etc  and no land rights or property rights? 

Thailand still has valid concerns about foreigners married to locals buying land. 

I shouldn't need to point out why. 

 

Yes, there is inequality. I got Thai citizenship easier than my wife could get British citizenship. For example, I didn't need to pass any Thai language tests. She would have to be conversant in English and pass a culture test, I think. 

 

But I was talking about single retirees in the US, the inequality is gigantic. 

Show 800k in the bank for a few months v 17 million invested in US companies. 

 

 

 

[BE88]

20 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I can't see that happening with Thailand ads about getting people retire in Thailand, it seems to me they want more retirees here they not want to put people off.

They certainly don't want us to leave just to pay more money to have the privilege of living in Thailand. It depends how much this increase will be to be considered good pre people. Usually this means a sizeable increase that we are waiting to see

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Presumably they get a 1 year Multi (90 day) Entry Non-IMM O (would need to show the 400/800K in some bank or some proof of income to get) & do a border bounce towards the end of it to get the extra 3 months. 

 

Very easy for Marriage visa holders, not so easy for Retirees nowadays though that's the Visa I started on (got it in Penang when I was working in Singapore, used the 800K in my Thai bank, Singapore pay slips & a letter from the British Embassy confirming income - unfortunately the British & American/Australian Embassies no longer provide these ). 

I'm told they go out Thailand and come back with 'O' visa so they don't have to show money only the marriage cert and wife's ID and house book.

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, BE88 said:

They certainly don't want us to leave just to pay more money to have the privilege of living in Thailand. It depends how much this increase will be to be considered good pre people. Usually this means a sizeable increase that we are waiting to see

Out of interest, how much is a visa for your country? 

 

It's 20,000 baht for a UK 2 year visa. 

6,300 baht  for short term US visa. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Neeranam

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

And what about the banks, that are complicit, in giving IMO false bank statements to Agents/Immigration. How does that even work? 

Brown envelopes. ????

[John Drake]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

But I was talking about single retirees in the US, the inequality is gigantic. 

Show 800k in the bank for a few months v 17 million invested in US companies. 

What benefits do Thai retirees on a permanent green card get in the US? What benefits do US retirees on a one year extension get in thailand?

[John Drake]

How receptive will the new government be to making extensions costlier and more difficult?

 

Anutin hates Westerners

Thaksin doesn't like them either.

 

As I said several weeks ago, some things were better with go along, get along Prayuth.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

What benefits do Thai retirees on a permanent green card get in the US? What benefits do US retirees on a one year extension get in thailand?

I was not talking about green card. Can a single Thai retiree get one? 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Anutin hates Westerners

No he doesn't, just the ones who disrespected him and refused to wear a mask. 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I was not talking about green card. Can a single Thai retiree get one? 

Yes, through family reunification. Entire third world villages have been relocated to the US through US immigration's family reunification policy, which is given priority by immigration.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Out of interest, how much is a visa for your country? 

The cost of flights was the main cost ???? from memory UK visa fees were not that much it was getting the visa was the hassle.

 

My wife came 6months holiday first to UK that was the only Visa they would issue first back in 2002.

 

When my wife returned to Thailand she was able to apply for a 2 year visa and staying on in UK after that she could received British citizenship.