Opinion Editorial: No, It Isn’t Time to Worry About RETIREMENT VISA Changes….Yet

[mokwit]

19 minutes ago, jayboy said:

This is a very common misunderstanding, namely that the Thai authorities attach much priority to retired foreigners speaking reasonable Thai. Frankly they don't care much about this: of course it's part of the PR process but by no means the most important.To the extent the authorities consider - which they don't very much - retired foreigners (I'm referring mainly to the guys in Pattaya, rural Isaan and other such habitats) the main impulse would be to ensure they are financially solvent and can meet their obligations without calling on the Thai state for support.

Contrary to what many think, the Thai authorities don't want us to learn the language and integrate. They would prefer us confined to falang ghettos.

[TigerandDog]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

So the only reason for being denied insurance is age? You Never heard of pre-existing conditions that make some people simply uninsurable. 

That aside most insurance companies have a maximum onboarding age of 75 so whilst mine will continue to insure me until I’m 99, I couldn’t get a new policy with them at 76.

 

Please share the name of your Insurance company (mine is Pacific Cross) as I’m sure a lot of guys > 75 would be interested. 

I'm with the same company and I was able to get one pre-existing conditions and all with waiting periods applied for those, and they will actually continue to insure you even if you live longer than 99. Whilst their propaganda states they will insure between age 6 months - 75, when I joined they actually told me they had extended that up to 80.

[Bday Prang]

8 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

Not entirely true. O-A requires money to be in a Thai bank account within 3 months of arrival in Thailand (that was the requirement when I moved here) OR the 65k per month or the combined method. Seasoning was in place when I moved here 9 years ago, but it was only for the period prior to obtaining an extension of stay. The insurance requirements were brought in under the guise of stopping foreigners from doing runners from hospitals. Nothing to do with what you have said. Honestly, where do some of you people get this misinformation from?

most of what you have posted is just plain wrong and you should stop confusing and misleading people.

The non o visas are not, as you insist "discriminatory" they simply have different requirements, you keep asking why, but you are asking the wrong people.  Ask an immigration officer, and his answer will be something along the lines of " because it is" or "because we say so "  which is a standard answer any adult gives a pestering child.

If you want "preferential treatment" change you visa, but try and get the right one this time eh?  maybe you should consider using an agent this time. lol

 At least stop moaning and insulting people who are better informed than yourself

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Contrary to what many think, the Thai authorities don't want us to learn the language and integrate. They would prefer us confined to falang ghettos.

I would say its the retirees who have no wish to learn Thai and are quite happy to be confined to the "ghetto" only leaving it when accompanied by their wives

[mokwit]

24 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I would say its the retirees who have no wish to learn Thai and are quite happy to be confined to the "ghetto" only leaving it when accompanied by their wives

Nope.

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

When I arrived here 9 years ago on an O-A it WAS a requirement to have the money in the bank within 3 months of arrival. No confusion whatsoever with the 3 months seasoning. I even had to show the bank a copy of the Police/Immigration rule stating that, before they would open an account for me.

The only 3 month requirement that existed when you applied for the Non O-A 9 years ago was that you had to show you had the money in your home country bank account 3 months before the application. Once arriving on the visa you were stamped in for 12 months (the A in O/A means annual), and if you re-entered before the visa expired you'd get a further 12 months, allowing up to two years stay on this visa. No monies were required to be deposited in Thailand at all unless deciding to go on to extensions, and this is exactly why immigration went after the O-A with the insurance requirements.

 

You may have waved a police order at the bank clerk and they magically opened your account, but something must have got lost in translation. Prior to 2015 most banks were happy to open accounts for people on any kind of visa with nothing more needed than showing a passport..

[Olmate]

2 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The only 3 month requirement that existed when you applied for the Non O-A 9 years ago was that you had to show you had the money in your home country bank account 3 months before the application. Once arriving on the visa you were stamped in for 12 months (the A in O/A means annual), and if you re-entered before the visa expired you'd get a further 12 months, allowing up to two years stay on this visa. No monies were required to be deposited in Thailand at all unless deciding to go on to extensions, and this is exactly why immigration went after the O-A with the insurance requirements.

 

You may have waved a police order at the bank clerk and they magically opened your account, but something must have got lost in translation. Prior to 2015 most banks were happy to open accounts for people on any kind of visa with nothing more needed than showing a passport..

This+!  

[Kwasaki]

32 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

most of what you have posted is just plain wrong and you should stop confusing and misleading people.

The non o visas are not, as you insist "discriminatory" they simply have different requirements, you keep asking why, but you are asking the wrong people.  Ask an immigration officer, and his answer will be something along the lines of " because it is" or "because we say so "  which is a standard answer any adult gives a pestering child.

If you want "preferential treatment" change you visa, but try and get the right one this time eh?  maybe you should consider using an agent this time. lol

 At least stop moaning and insulting people who are better informed than yourself

Up to him. ????

[Mike Teavee]

30 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Prior to 2015 most banks were happy to open accounts for people on any kind of visa with nothing more needed than showing a passport..

I'd go even further & say they were happy to open accounts for anybody, I opened mine in 2017 on a Visa Exempt & know guys who have done the same as recently as January this year. 

 

In March (might have been May) this year the Banking regulations changed & you now need at least 30 days remaining on your permission to stay to open an account which more or less rules out Visa Exempt holders though I do know of an agency in Jomtien that will take you to do an extension to your VE & then to open a Bank Account the same day. 

 

[TigerandDog]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The only 3 month requirement that existed when you applied for the Non O-A 9 years ago was that you had to show you had the money in your home country bank account 3 months before the application. Once arriving on the visa you were stamped in for 12 months (the A in O/A means annual), and if you re-entered before the visa expired you'd get a further 12 months, allowing up to two years stay on this visa. No monies were required to be deposited in Thailand at all unless deciding to go on to extensions, and this is exactly why immigration went after the O-A with the insurance requirements.

 

You may have waved a police order at the bank clerk and they magically opened your account, but something must have got lost in translation. Prior to 2015 most banks were happy to open accounts for people on any kind of visa with nothing more needed than showing a passport..

you really just can't accept that you are wrong with regards to money in the bank within 3 months of arrival can you.  Not only did I have a copy of the police order stating I MUST have the money in a Thai account within 3 months of arrival ( in both Thai & English), but when I collected my visa from the Thai Embassy in my home country I was given a list, IN ENGLISH, on Embassy letterhead of basic requirements once I arrived, viz. TM30, 90 reporting AND 800k in a Thai bank account within 3 months of arrival. So stop telling me I'm wrong when I had it in writing from 2 Thai sources that was the requirement, especially as the bank would not open an account for me until I showed it to them, and that was after SCB, Krungthai, and BKK Bank all initially refused, and that was in BKK not the boonies. Even when I did my first 90 day report at CW they wanted to see my bank book, which meant I had to go home & return, showing that I had opened an account with the 800k. You may have been fortunate not to encounter this, but that was my experience in 2014. So for cryin out loud, STOP telling me that what I actually experienced was not a requirement back then.

[Gknrd]

What happened the last time these type of threads started and ran 15 + pages.  Thai's got wind of it and cracked down on the 800K requirements. tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.  Time for an up date in the retirement rules..

[lamyai3]

21 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

you really just can't accept that you are wrong with regards to money in the bank within 3 months of arrival can you.  Not only did I have a copy of the police order stating I MUST have the money in a Thai account within 3 months of arrival ( in both Thai & English), but when I collected my visa from the Thai Embassy in my home country I was given a list, IN ENGLISH, on Embassy letterhead of basic requirements once I arrived, viz. TM30, 90 reporting AND 800k in a Thai bank account within 3 months of arrival. So stop telling me I'm wrong when I had it in writing from 2 Thai sources that was the requirement, especially as the bank would not open an account for me until I showed it to them, and that was after SCB, Krungthai, and BKK Bank all initially refused, and that was in BKK not the boonies. Even when I did my first 90 day report at CW they wanted to see my bank book, which meant I had to go home & return, showing that I had opened an account with the 800k. You may have been fortunate not to encounter this, but that was my experience in 2014. So for cryin out loud, STOP telling me that what I actually experienced was not a requirement back then.

What you remember experiencing surely never happened, since it was neither a requirement back then nor at any time since. If you can pull a copy of said police order out of the same hat you keep talking out of there might be something to discuss, but for now it sounds more like defective memory than anything else.

 

No idea why you were refused an account in 2014, but rules were certainly tightened around middle of the decade. Banks started asking for work permits, long stay visas, copy rental contracts or similar. Bangkok Bank head office in Silom told me that the rules on this became stricter in 2015, and they needed to see either a work permit or a letter of residence from the embassy after that. 

[jerrymahoney]

6 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

but when I collected my visa from the Thai Embassy in my home country I was given a list, I

The continued mystery of 'what home country?'

[morrobay]

11 hours ago, mokwit said:

Nope.

 

12 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I would say its the retirees who have no wish to learn Thai and are quite happy to be confined to the "ghetto" only leaving it when accompanied by their wives

Nope ?? Speak for yourself 

[TigerandDog]

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

The continued mystery of 'what home country?'

none of your business

[Mike Teavee]

And now the latest thing to [not] "Worry" about with Retirement Visas is raising the age from 50 to 55 or 60... 

 

 

 

Personally don't see it happening & if it did, I believe they will Grandfather in existing Visa holders.... (bloody hope so as I'm 2.5 years away from being 60) but the main guy in the murder that started all this off with Big Joke was 52 so it wouldn't be a complete shocker if they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

It would be nice if they could announce any changes before Sept 15th so, if I needed to, I could get my Thailand Elite Visa application in before that changes...  

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

And now the latest thing to [not] "Worry" about with Retirement Visas is raising the age from 50 to 55 or 60...

This was mentioned as an idea when we learned of the big Jok comments relating to retirement 'visas' and motorcycle gangs. Beginning to think someone makes rumour monger click bait articles out of the odd AN comments!

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, TigerandDog said:

none of your business

Absolutely. But then it makes it impossible to assess the viability of your statements as to what info you received.

Edited August 9, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Metapod]

5 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

And now the latest thing to [not] "Worry" about with Retirement Visas is raising the age from 50 to 55 or 60... 

 

 

 

Personally don't see it happening & if it did, I believe they will Grandfather in existing Visa holders.... (bloody hope so as I'm 2.5 years away from being 60) but the main guy in the murder that started all this off with Big Joke was 52 so it wouldn't be a complete shocker if they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

It would be nice if they could announce any changes before Sept 15th so, if I needed to, I could get my Thailand Elite Visa application in before that changes...  

 

Hope that doesn't happen as i will then have a gap between the end of my 20 year Thai Elite and eligibility for Retirement Visa

[K2938]

11 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

It would be nice if they could announce any changes before Sept 15th so, if I needed to, I could get my Thailand Elite Visa application in before that changes...  

You have uncertainty everywhere.  The Elite visa terms could also be changed following your purchase.  From a reputational point of view it is unlikely that you will get totally screwed, but you have no legal protection and the recent changes to upgrade options for certain existing Elite visa holders shows that Thai Elite does not refrain from making adverse changes to the disadvantage of current Elite visa holders

Edited August 9, 2023 by K2938

[jacko45k]

On 8/9/2023 at 1:52 PM, Metapod said:

Hope that doesn't happen as i will then have a gap between the end of my 20 year Thai Elite and eligibility for Retirement Visa

Have to see what the new Elite offerings are like..... refreshed ones coming out I think in October. 

[flexomike]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:13 AM, jerrymahoney said:

As best I recall, the reason for the O-A health insurance requirement is that -- unlike the O based extensions -- the O-A requires no money in a Thai bank account.

This is true for the original issue of the OA, but future extensions of the same require money in the bank, 

[flexomike]

On 8/7/2023 at 3:24 PM, Bday Prang said:

Who on earth told you that??

was only mandatory when doing first extension of OA, I got mine in 2016 and didn't have to set up a Thai bank account with 800,000, Have since got rid of the OA and now have an O.

 

[flexomike]

On 8/8/2023 at 12:58 PM, TigerandDog said:

I might be the first to report about O-A's having to have the money in the bank, BUT all my foreigner friends where I'm living are also on O-A's and they also had to provide proof to their banks about the requirement for teh funds to be in teh bank within 3 months of arrival. So who's making stupid assumptions now.

 

So all those were over the age of 85 were they? Many of the Thai stipulated health funds increased the age limit for joining up. The fund I'm with increased that age limit from 70 to 85 with a full medical examination required. So perhaps many of those people that opted out of O-A weren't as well informed as you seem  

Not one of my friends who came in on an OA including me had the requirement that a Thai bank account had to be opened with 800,000 baht within three months after arrival, only when doing their first extension of the OA. All of my friends who switched over to the O including me are all well informed and got tired of the BS overpriced useless Thai insurance. I agree with you that it wasn't fair to require those on long term OA's to have to get the insurance they should have been grandfathered in. But that is the only thing I will agree on.

 

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, flexomike said:

Not one of my friends who came in on an OA including me had the requirement that a Thai bank account had to be opened with 800,000 baht within three months after arrival, only when doing their first extension of the OA. All of my friends who switched over to the O including me are all well informed and got tired of the BS overpriced useless Thai insurance. I agree with you that it wasn't fair to require those on long term OA's to have to get the insurance they should have been grandfathered in. But that is the only thing I will agree on.

 

I got the OA in 2019, seemed perfect, keep my money in the US, good for 2 years if done correctly. Covid screwed that up. I couldn't leave Thailand to get another 12 months on the OA. I used an agent the first extension, he took care of bank and insurance requirements for 16,000 thb.

 

As you I've since lost the OA and have the O using monthly deposits.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Got my OA issued in Oct 2016 from Thai Embassy in London, financial requirements to obtain visa were in a U.K. bank.

Thai immigration started requesting financial requirements to be kept in a Thai bank some 23 months later on application for the 1st extension.

 

( since dumped OA, now on an O visa retirement extension ).

 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, flexomike said:

Have since got rid of the OA and now have an O.

Did you have to leave the country and start again, or was this simply achieved by an agent? I did hear rumour it could be done... 

[EVENKEEL]

40 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Did you have to leave the country and start again, or was this simply achieved by an agent? I did hear rumour it could be done... 

Just happened my trip to US made losing the OA convenient in 2021. Came back visa exempt.

[flexomike]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Did you have to leave the country and start again, or was this simply achieved by an agent? I did hear rumour it could be done... 

did a border bounce to Cambodia

 

[Mike Teavee]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:51 PM, mokwit said:

It says at the bottom of both forms "attendance is requited in person" They added the "unless incapacitated" shortly after someone was pushed 'round CW in a hospital bed complete with IV drip. It was surreal seeing that.

 

Jomtien I hear you can do both without attending.

 

I don't think you can do standard PoA on an extension other than for a handful of cases, or maybe just medical - presumably the agent submits some questionable paperwork. CW without attendance is long gone. PoA can be done for other things e.g. TM30.

 

Re entry permit attendance enforcement seems to have tightened up at CW - taking your photo now.

Quick update, went to see my Agent yesterday & they’ve told me I need to meet them at Jomtien Immigration today (Office was closed yesterday) to have my photo taken so it does look like they’re tightening up the rules around attending in person this year.
 

Would be interesting to know whether guys who use “Agent Assisted Finances” also have to attend.