Warning UK set for five years of lost economic growth

[JonnyF]

8 minutes ago, JayClay said:

I was also against the war, as was the majority of the public.

 

If I could see through the lies at the time, whilst having no access to the government, why wouldn't the tories be able to figure it out ????

Trying to blame the Tories is laughable.

 

If I tell you I'm going to the shops and then go rob a bank, it's your fault for allowing me to "go to the shops", not my fault for robbing the bank. 

 

Quite a reach ????.

[JayClay]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Trying to blame the Tories is laughable.

 

If I tell you I'm going to the shops and then go rob a bank, it's your fault for allowing me to "go to the shops", not my fault for robbing the bank. 

 

Quite a reach ????.

I'm not trying to blame the tories.

 

I'm just saying you would have been far better off picking an example of a Labour policy that the conservatives opposed, rather than one they supported.

 

I understand reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points, but I'm really not sure how to be any clearer.

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Next thing you know, those Marxists will propose increasing support for the NH.

Like it has under the Tories?

 

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

 

[transam]

37 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You know that when it comes to UK politics, if someone brings up Diane Abbott, that means they've got nothing.

I think just pointing out Labour Party facts, but then again, any excuse for your "got nothing" thingy, eh....................????

[Kwasaki]

46 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

4 years of Labour would be too much to bear. They could do massive damage in such a period.

 

I reckon he should leave the election as late as possible. Labour have a habit of losing elections that they should win (failure becomes a habit), so I'd give them as much time as possible to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

They might do something ridiculous like make Diane Abbott the face of their election campaign. ????

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/

 

  

I think the what is called the British public is very different today, they are so contrary and impatient IMO.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

I think just pointing out Labour Party facts, but then again, any excuse for your "got nothing" thingy, eh....................????

I think if you want a more significant example, someone who commanded the majority of Tory MP votes, why not refer to the previous PM? I believe the name of that laughingstock is Liz Truss.

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Like it has under the Tories?

 

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

 

Clearly, not by enough.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think if you want a more significant example, someone who commanded the majority of Tory MP votes, why not refer to the previous PM? I believe the name of that laughingstock is Liz Truss.

Oh yes, it seems all in the Tory Party, according to you, has a problem, how lefty of you..........????

Tell us about your Corbyn, splendid fellow, and all.......????.....????

[Kwasaki]

34 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What don't you understand about this statement of mine?

 The UK economy has been been hurt by events outside of its contral and by the self-inflicted damage which is the result of Brexit.

Just a negative way of putting it, anyone with any sense knew it wouldn't be easy leaving the Euro mafia and time would be needed to recover being independent.

[RuamRudy]

59 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You know that when it comes to UK politics, if someone brings up Diane Abbott, that means they've got nothing.

And in denial of the party that elected Johnson and Truss.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Oh yes, it seems all in the Tory Party, according to you, has a problem, how lefty of you..........????

Tell us about your Corbyn, splendid fellow, and all.......????.....????

I wasn't the one who began the finger pointing. So, if you're looking to assign blame for partiality, you should look elsewhere.

[RuamRudy]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

I think just pointing out Labour Party facts, but then again, any excuse for your "got nothing" thingy, eh....................????

Does the word Truss ring any bells? You create fantasy scenarios about Abbott in power but the Tories actually elected Truss to number 10. Tell me again and the relative trustworthiness of Tory members!

[transam]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

Does the word Truss ring any bells? You create fantasy scenarios about Abbott in power but the Tories actually elected Truss to number 10. Tell me again and the relative trustworthiness of Tory members!

I don't need any bell's thank you, you are just an SNP lefty waiting for any opportunity to pounce on the UK gov. I look forward to the next SNP thread where I reckon you will go missing, bit like SNP money.............. 

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

I don't need any bell's thank you, you are just an SNP lefty waiting for any opportunity to pounce on the UK gov. I look forward to the next SNP thread where I reckon you will go missing, bit like SNP money.............. 

As @placeholder pointed out, you have nothing. You know that your party is both morally and intellectually bankrupt (or at least I presume you can see that for yourself) but rather than accept facts and address them, all you can do is point out imaginary threats elsewhere. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by RuamRudy

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

I understand it (I assume you mean control) but without giving accurate figures on the impact of both categories it's a pretty meaningless statement.

 

A bit like saying my annual expenses consisted of rent, food and a pair of flip-flops. Since the flip-flops were non essential, we can conclude that I was frivoulous with my annual expenses.  

 

The impact of Brexit was negligibile, as I have already stated is demonstrated by the fact that the largest EU economy which remained is doing worse than Britain who left. The impact of Brexit will also decline with each passing year. 

From an article you linked to in the Financial Times. And thank you for that.

UK-German trade falls sharply since Brexit vote, data show. Figures highlight gradual decoupling of British manufacturing from EU’s biggest economy

The weakening of bilateral trade is mirrored in the UK’s official statistics. British goods exports to Germany were down 10 per cent last year compared with 2020, while overall UK exports were up 9 per cent. UK goods imports from Germany were also down in 2021, although overall imports were up. Services, which account for just over one-third of UK exports to Germany, and about 14 per cent of imports, were also down last year.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/913c7e84-fd2d-4cb5-be0c-8cd865f37462

So that is down from what was already the low level of the heart of the covid pandemic.

 

So much faulty reasoning in your statement. You are really likening the percentage of the British economy that consists of manufacturing to the ratio of the cost of a pair of flip-flops to annual household expenditures? I realize that manufacturing in the UK has seen better days, but do you really believe it constitutes a fraction of a percent of the UK economy? Or were those flip-flops made of solid gold?

 

And it proves nothing to say that the impact of Brexit was negligible because the largest EU economy declined. Apparently, you believe the composition of each nation's economy is  identical or similar enough so that the differences are irrelevant.

 

[JonnyF]

42 minutes ago, placeholder said:

From an article you linked to in the Financial Times. And thank you for that.

UK-German trade falls sharply since Brexit vote, data show. Figures highlight gradual decoupling of British manufacturing from EU’s biggest economy

The weakening of bilateral trade is mirrored in the UK’s official statistics. British goods exports to Germany were down 10 per cent last year compared with 2020, while overall UK exports were up 9 per cent. UK goods imports from Germany were also down in 2021, although overall imports were up. Services, which account for just over one-third of UK exports to Germany, and about 14 per cent of imports, were also down last year.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/913c7e84-fd2d-4cb5-be0c-8cd865f37462

So that is down from what was already the low level of the heart of the covid pandemic.

 

So much faulty reasoning in your statement. You are really likening the percentage of the British economy that consists of manufacturing to the ratio of the cost of a pair of flip-flops to annual household expenditures? I realize that manufacturing in the UK has seen better days, but do you really believe it constitutes a fraction of a percent of the UK economy? Or were those flip-flops made of solid gold?

 

And it proves nothing to say that the impact of Brexit was negligible because the largest EU economy declined. Apparently, you believe the composition of each nation's economy is  identical or similar enough so that the differences are irrelevant.

 

Well the UK economy as a whole is growing. So whatever dip there has been exporting manufactured goods to zee Germans has clearly been offset by growth elsewhere.

 

I guess that's one of the benefits of leaving an overly regulated, protectionist trading bloc (that you pay Billions for the privilige of propping up) and opening up your horizons to the rest of the world. Global Britain. Marvellous.

 

Who could have guessed?

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/25/british-economy-outperform-germany-this-year-imf/#:~:text=Britain will outperform Germany this,of its annual economic healthcheck.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Unlike Germany, which is in recession and is already being outperformed by the UK, and which is likely to continue to be outperformed by the UK. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/25/british-economy-outperform-germany-this-year-imf/

 

Given that the UK left the EU and Germany remained in the EU (but both suffered from Covid lockdowns and the war in Ukraine), it does not take an epic understanding of constants and variables to establish that leaving the EU was not the disaster it was predicted to be (well, if you exclude the impact on the German's export market...).

 

 

You are being a bit choosy on the ‘out performed metric.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02791/#:~:text=In 2022%2C ranked on GDP,below Germany and the US.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[RayC]

Imo the argument that Germany's economy is suffering, therefore being a member of the EU is damaging its' economy is, at best, facile. Where is the evidence to support this view?

 

On the other hand, the amount of evidence highlighting the negative effects of Brexit on the UK economy grows almost by the day. A selection of articles- which is by no means exhaustive - highlighting this is listed below:

 

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions

 

https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/01/03/the-impact-of-brexit-in-charts

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64450882.amp

 

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/impact-brexit-uk-economy-reviewing-evidence#:~:text=The impact on trade overall,2–3% of GDP.

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

So another 5 yrs, on top of the 5 previous years of spanking for daring to leave the EU.

 

That sucks

[candide]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Unlike Germany, which is in recession and is already being outperformed by the UK, and which is likely to continue to be outperformed by the UK. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/25/british-economy-outperform-germany-this-year-imf/

 

Given that the UK left the EU and Germany remained in the EU (but both suffered from Covid lockdowns and the war in Ukraine), it does not take an epic understanding of constants and variables to establish that leaving the EU was not the disaster it was predicted to be (well, if you exclude the impact on the German's export market...).

 

 

Of course, you compare UK to the current weakest Country. What about the others or the euro zone?

BTW, UK GDP is still below pre-pandemic level (Q1 2023)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

Edited August 9, 2023 by candide

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Of course, you compare UK to the current weakest Country. What about the others or the euro zone?

BTW, UK GDP is still below pre-pandemic level (Q1 2023)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

Why Germany? Because it is the largest economy in the EU. The "powerhouse" of the EU economy.

 

Same as if I was looking at cities in the UK to represent the health of the UK's financial sector, I'd choose London, not Grimsby.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, transam said:

I think just pointing out Labour Party facts, but then again, any excuse for your "got nothing" thingy, eh....................????

‘Got nothing’ you say.

 

How about the inconvenient fact that Labour haven’t been in power for over 14 years?

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Not a warm sunlit upland insight, let alone a unicorn.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[transam]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Got nothing’ you say.

 

How about the inconvenient fact that Labour haven’t been in power for over 14 years?

 

 

 

Wasn't talking to you...........????

But, thank heavens they haven't, and may that continue..............

[candide]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Why Germany? Because it is the largest economy in the EU. The "powerhouse" of the EU economy.

 

Same as if I was looking at cities in the UK to represent the health of the UK's financial sector, I'd choose London, not Grimsby.

Tss tss 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

First off, there's a difference between unavoidable damage and self-inflicted damage. Germany has an economy highly dependent on exports. The sharp rise in energy costs in Europe badly damaged their competitiveness. What's more, after Covid, there was a worldwide drop in demand for goods as opposed to services. 

 

What you are also forgetting in that FT article you linked to, the major point was how Brexit had damaged the UK industrial sector. In other words, were there no Brexit, the UK would be in positive territory now.

 

So, to repeat, the German economy has been hurt by events outside of its control. The UK economy has been been hurt by events outside of its contral and by the self-inflicted damage which is the result of Brexit.

 

 

Irrelevant to the discussion again.

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Got nothing’ you say.

 

How about the inconvenient fact that Labour haven’t been in power for over 14 years?

 

 

 

Labour's inability to win elections is nobody's fault but their own.

 

If they could form a coherent manifesto, form sensible positions on things like gender issues, and remove more embarrassments like Abbott from the party then maybe people would forgive them for the atrocities committed in Iraq the last time they were in power.   

[Eleftheros]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Next thing you know, those Marxists will propose increasing support for the NH.

I don't think so.

 

Communists are generally opposed to bourgeois exploits such as horse racing, especially those run under National Hunt rules which require horses to jump over large scary obstacles.

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Labour's inability to win elections is nobody's fault but their own.

 

If they could form a coherent manifesto, form sensible positions on things like gender issues, and remove more embarrassments like Abbott from the party then maybe people would forgive them for the atrocities committed in Iraq the last time they were in power.   

Non of this is about any Labour failures you might want to throw in as a bit of whataboutary.

 

Let’s hold the Government of the day accountable for the failures of government of the day.

 

[ICU Kid]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

If the UK economy is doing so well, why is it that it hasn't yet recovered to pre-pandemic levels?

Now do Thailand and every other country that chose to put citizens under house arrest for 2 years