Thailand shakes up golden visa scheme, hikes prices by up to 500 per cent

[Celsius]

This new pricing is just to attract a few idiots with the last minute fake demand "last chance before prices go up" story. It is similar to crypto pyramid scheme. There are no "rich" people buying into this. 

 

I am willing to bet you that next year they are going to come up with new "budget" elite schemes or worse revert to old pricing structure.

 

 

[newnative]

5 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

https://www.imidaily.com/datacenter/thai-elite-visa-statistics/

Not very impressive.  Likely will be even less so with the huge price increases.

[vibration]

So glad I was guided to get a 15 year Thai Elite Membership extension early this year for 500000THB until end 2039.

[impulse]

52 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

There has been a huge uptick in new members 2020-2023. Almost 35k new cards in total. Billions of THB. Although they get money up front, according to accounting standards the revenue will be divided into 5/10/15 years. When they get money upfront, but deliver a 20 year service - they are in the same position as a insurance company. A very beneficial one, as they can get a return on the money throughout the years (bonds, interest, stocks etc.). 

 

Although your question is fair and balanced, compared to much other absolute lunacy here, there's absolutely nothing that indicates that applications will go down to zero next year. 

Great point about the 20% turnover per year.  I'm actually favorable toward the program, admitting that it's not for everyone.  Maybe not even for most expats.   Since I landed in Thailand in 2011, I've seen a lot of trepidation on the part of expats toward the Elite program, and a lot of changes in fee structures and offerings.  But I can't think of anyone who's claimed that they haven't delivered in terms of long term stay.

 

My concern is that they're letting the anomalies from the last 3 years get to their heads, and may be in for a rude awakening when there's no more Russkies and Ukes fleeing a warzone, and the neighbors to the north (where I sit typing this) get past their economic troubles.  Of course, either of those may take years to resolve... That's why it would be interesting to see how many of those 35K new members are from those countries.

 

And if I had a wishlist, I'd forgo all the fru-fru for a cheaper program.  I don't need a ride to the airport, or expedited clearance, or...  or...  Just permission to stay without leaving for visa reasons.  Being in the 65+ age bracket, I'd probably go with a retirement visa (if they keep those available when I'm ready to decide)  But I'd recommend the Elite Visa (or whatever they call it now) to anyone under 50 yo and not married to a local.  Partly because I think running a coffee shop under an investment visa would cost a lot more than the Elite Visa, given the coffee shops every 50'.  And don't even get me started on the cost of marrying a local if things go south.

[alyx]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

I'm hoping you're right. I don't want to see any changes. Or, if they do, at least allow for the so-called grandfathering clauses. But Big Joke seemed so riled about the "biker gangs" I'm afraid he might push it up to 65 or 70. Probably most people that age can't even handle the weight of a biker gang Harley Davidson.

I'll tell you next year ... So far I am still up to it ????

[TimeMachine]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How many multi-millionaires do you generally associate with, then?

I stay away from them. Generally people high up in the workplace ladder. But a couple close ones I cant avoid.  1 is a nice guy coming from poor background and fought his way up. 

The other, complete selfish spotty. 

[ukrules]

43 minutes ago, vibration said:

So glad I was guided to get a 15 year Thai Elite Membership extension early this year for 500000THB until end 2039.

Yes, I have a 5 year membership which is being upgraded right now, pending approval I'll be good until 2040.

[Celsius]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

Yes, I have a 5 year membership which is being upgraded right now, pending approval I'll be good until 2040.

What happens if you die in 2027?

[aldriglikvid]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

Not very impressive.  Likely will be even less so with the huge price increases.

Not impressive? TE had 6k active users in 2019 and had 40k last month, according to the chairman of TPC. This doesn't account the new influx of members that are signing up before the new prices. Probably 50k as we speak. 

According to your logic, Rolex and Ferrari needs to "step it up" because Casio and Renault sells (nominal) more watches and cars per year. 

TPC doesn't want TE to be a volume-plan, and here's why: Every new member with a PE-visa requires a private shuttle on Suvarnabhumi, Phuket and Chang Mai. Every new PE-visa requires special bypass att check-in, special bypass at security and finally use the same immigration line as the pilots. The idea that TPC are seeking VOLUME, as you guys claim, is nauseating clueless. They try to find a traditional Supply and Demand BALANCE of what deep-pocket tourists are willing to pay. When users are growing +100% YoY, for 3 years in a row, clearly they are underpricing themselves. Not to mention all the staff (costs) they need to hire to meet and greet all these new clients on the airports. 

 

It makes absolute economic sense to raise prices here, and as a 20Y TE holder I'm delighted they're doing just that. 

[ukrules]

29 minutes ago, Celsius said:

What happens if you die in 2027?

Nothing

[ukrules]

18 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

TPC doesn't want TE to be a volume-plan

I have a feeling that there being too many members might be a catalyst behind this recent change.

 

Can they handle all the members?

 

They need to strike a balance but I feel they've gone way too far and it won't be long before new discounted plans are introduced, perhaps just a year or two.

[khunjeff]

31 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

The idea that TPC are seeking VOLUME, as you guys claim, is nauseating clueless.

When the program was introduced in 2003, Thaksin literally - and very publicly - announced, repeatedly, that they expected to sell one million Thai Elite cards (coincidentally, the same goal as for the LTR visa, and just as likely to be achieved).

[Captain Monday]

9 hours ago, bob smith said:

could you explain to me why anyone would pay 5 million baht for a visa that you can get legally for 1,900 baht at immigration? 

As many times this ludicrous question has been asked here by various posters over the years when the answers are so obvious and straightforward truly boggles the mind. 

[Lorry]

6 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

 

This is another highly interesting take, besides the "Thai Economics"-zingers: "the numbers aren't impressive". 

 

According to what? Do you guys understand that Thai Elite doesn't scale as a Spotify or HBO Max subscription? Every new member with a PE-visa requires a shuttle on Suvarnabhumi, Phuket and Chang Mai. Every new PE-visa requires bypass att checkin, security and a special line at Immigration. The idea that TPC are seeking VOLUME, as you guys claim, is nauseating clueless. They try to find a traditional Supply and Demand BALANCE of what deep-pocket tourists are willing to pay. When users are growing +100% YoY, for 3 years in a row, clearly they are underpricing themselves. Not to mention all the staff (costs) they need to hire to meet and greet all these new clients on the airports. 

 

To the "not impressive" numbers: it was 6000 active PE-visa holders in 2019 and there were forty thousand (40 000) in July before they announced their new pricing. Considering everyone had approx. 40 days to subscribe to the old pricing before the new price is fixed, I'm confident that number is not less than 50 000 next month. That's almost 10x in 5 years. Yeah, hardly impressive. 

 

Personal take? I don't think they actually want anymore than 20 000 active users. Perhaps not even that. Why would they? It's better to increase price until you reach that point of users. The exact same revenue to a lower fixed and operational cost i.e. higher profits. 

 

 

"Thai Economics"

But on the other side,  they will lower visa fees for Chinese and Indians.

Tourists who make a trip dependent on the visa fees are the lower end of the spectrum.  Here they are seeking volume. 

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but it doesn't have to.

[Celsius]

1 hour ago, khunjeff said:

When the program was introduced in 2003, Thaksin literally - and very publicly - announced, repeatedly, that they expected to sell one million Thai Elite cards (coincidentally, the same goal as for the LTR visa, and just as likely to be achieved).

Yea.... and after that they were setting up unrealistic, laughable targets year after year that never materialized. But lo and behold we now have some guy living in 22sqm studio claiming otherwise. 

 

The 3 year covid anomaly and a war in Ukraine doesn't make a trend. The biggest spenders (and I never bash Chinese and rather respect them) are gone and literally bankrupt. 

 

 

 

 

[freedomnow]

5 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do you have one example of the rug being pulled from under legitimate concepts?

In LOS there AREN'T any legitimate concepts..so its a rug-pull every 2nd week or a u-turn or a flip to the flop on some area of the visa system.

[ericthai]

3 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

Not impressive? TE had 6k active users in 2019 and had 40k last month, according to the chairman of TPC. This doesn't account the new influx of members that are signing up before the new prices. Probably 50k as we speak. 

According to your logic, Rolex and Ferrari needs to "step it up" because Casio and Renault sells (nominal) more watches and cars per year. 

TPC doesn't want TE to be a volume-plan, and here's why: Every new member with a PE-visa requires a private shuttle on Suvarnabhumi, Phuket and Chang Mai. Every new PE-visa requires special bypass att check-in, special bypass at security and finally use the same immigration line as the pilots. The idea that TPC are seeking VOLUME, as you guys claim, is nauseating clueless. They try to find a traditional Supply and Demand BALANCE of what deep-pocket tourists are willing to pay. When users are growing +100% YoY, for 3 years in a row, clearly they are underpricing themselves. Not to mention all the staff (costs) they need to hire to meet and greet all these new clients on the airports. 

 

It makes absolute economic sense to raise prices here, and as a 20Y TE holder I'm delighted they're doing just that. 

You dont get it... people using the TE visa aren't tourist going in and out of the airport all the time, they get the visa to live full time in Thailand.  Anyone that is constantly going in and out of Thailand doesn't need this visa. 

[aldriglikvid]

8 minutes ago, ericthai said:

You dont get it... people using the TE visa aren't tourist going in and out of the airport all the time, they get the visa to live full time in Thailand.  Anyone that is constantly going in and out of Thailand doesn't need this visa. 

Yeah, and that's why I acquired TE 20y in my mid 30s. I'm sorry, what is that I don't get?

[aldriglikvid]

4 hours ago, Celsius said:

What happens if you die in 2027?

How come you guys in the age of 70s and 80s are so bitter about this scheme. You want it to fail bitterly, and if it's not failing all the people subscribing are utter morons. 

 

Help me understand. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by aldriglikvid

[likerdup1]

14 hours ago, bob smith said:

5 million baht to take part in the perpetual game of the ever changing goal posts, that is the thai elite visa?

 

Thanks, but no thanks!

yea, who buys these products anyways? When  one can have an agent do a retirement visa at a small fraction of the cost what's the use why drop 1 million THB? Bragging rights? Maybe rich young tourists/regular visitors? Confounds the imagination. 

[BenStark]

3 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

yea, who buys these products anyways? When  one can have an agent do a retirement visa at a small fraction of the cost what's the use why drop 1 million THB?

I doubt an agent can get you a retirement visa if you're not 50 yet

[redwood1]

25 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

How come you guys in the age of 70s and 80s are so bitter about this scheme. You want it to fail bitterly, and if it's not failing all the people subscribing are utter morons. 

 

Help me understand. 

The old pricing of the elite I thoght was fair....But not cheap..........The new prices are crazy....30,000 dollars for 5 years, 150K for 20 years is nuts.......These visa people are consumed with greed and deserve to fail....

Edited September 2, 2023 by redwood1

[TimeMachine]

12 hours ago, Nickcage49 said:

Ridiculous. Just to avoid having to go to immigration once a year? I mean what else do you really get that's even important?

I think immigration have figured out the rich don't like it when their almond latte coffee costs 20c more but are happy to layout 50k for a handbag or watch. 

[JayClay]

15 hours ago, BritScot said:

Bizzare,  if your having problems with visa get an agent or adjust your choices as its a big old world out there with many welcoming countries. You must obviously have external income to live off as working without a visa is illegal and if you have employment then a work visa should be provided. The other route is setting up a business and employing yourself and the required number of Thai's giving yourself a work permit. Advice: go see a lawyer or adjust your life with trips over the border. There used to be certain Thai embassies that we'd give you a 12 month visa (new a young lad who did that for years).

I'm not having any visa problems.

 

All I'm saying is that "elite visa is useless for anybody because they have other cheaper options" is an ignorant statement because the fact is there is a group of people for whom there aren't realistic cheaper options.

 

It's amazing that some people can't grasp this simple concept. Bizarre.

[bob smith]

49 minutes ago, JayClay said:

I'm not having any visa problems.

 

All I'm saying is that "elite visa is useless for anybody because they have other cheaper options" is an ignorant statement because the fact is there is a group of people for whom there aren't realistic cheaper options.

 

It's amazing that some people can't grasp this simple concept. Bizarre.

get married then or come back when you are retirement age would be my advice to them.

 

dropping 5 million baht on a bloody visa reeks of desperation. 

 

surely they arent that desperate to stay here?

Edited September 3, 2023 by bob smith

[impulse]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

10 hours ago, Celsius said:

What happens if you die in 2027?

Nothing

Are they transferable?  I thought I read somewhere that they used to be transferable and could be sold on if someone changed their plans.  But my brain leaks every night when I sleep.

[JayClay]

Just now, bob smith said:

get married then or come back when you are retirement age.

 

dropping 5 million baht on a bloody visa reeks of desperation. 

 

surely you arent that desperate to stay here are you?

I am not going to drop 5 million baht on a visa. I have never suggested that I would.

 

1 million for 20 years would have be reasonable if I had had access to that sort of money. At 5 million, obviously it's no longer reasonable.

 

My views on this aren't hard to find. My very first post on this thread states my position clearly.

 

As for your suggestion of getting married... Do you honestly think that would cost less than 5 million baht over 20 years??

[bob smith]

8 minutes ago, JayClay said:

As for your suggestion of getting married... Do you honestly think that would cost less than 5 million baht over 20 years??

it has for me.

 

my marriage hasnt cost me a single penny.

 

in fact quite the opposite. its turned out to be rather profitable for me.

Edited September 3, 2023 by bob smith

[sammieuk1]

The country is now awash with people called "Vladimir" with more to come I suspect ????

[JayClay]

2 minutes ago, bob smith said:

it has for me.

 

my marriage hasnt cost me a single penny.

 

in fact quite the opposite. its turned out to be rather profitable for me.

I'm sure it has...