Outrage over Abbas's antisemitic speech on Jews and Holocaust

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, MrMojoRisin said:

Tut tut, you are conflating Jews and Israel.

 

Give an example of another group of oppressors that are able to respond to any and all claims against their crimes with a "get out of jail free" card (i.e. accusations of anti semitism).

Well of course not , Non  Jews cannot state people who oppose them are anti Semitic  !!!!!!!!

  What a simplistic question .

Are you really asking whether Chinese can make claims of Anti Semitism if someone questions their treatment of Uigars ?

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Here, for the second time, is a link to a very very thorough analysis of the question at hand.... it is far more substantive and informed than anything I, a lay person, could provide on the question at hand.

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v25/n16/judith-butler/no-it-s-not-anti-semitic

 

If you truly care for an answer, then you will read the essay that the link leads to, ruminate on the contained details and information and then, if not yet convinced, pose interesting and inquisitive questions to elicit further details and information or expose errors and/or weaknesses and/or flaws in the case being argued.

 

If, on the other hand, your interest lies solely in reaching for an opportunity to misinterpret, misconstrue or explicitly falsify my words in order to spring from the bushes and gleefully shout "gotcha" and "anti semite" then you are wasting your own time as you will learn nothing and will continue to move further from the truth and reality.

You have provided a link to a book or a 4220 word essay published 20 years ago and you expect me to read it and reply to the points raised in the book .

  I will not be doing that .

You are asking me to write a book myself  commenting on the book your provided 

The link is called "No its not anti semiotic" , going by the title of the book, I doubt it backs up your claim that Jews have had a free pass .

   Could you just tell me that the free pass is that Jews have got ?

   Giving me a book to read is a cop out and it doesn't even seem to back up your claim's, going by the book title 

[MrMojoRisin]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

Well of course not , Non  Jews cannot state people who oppose them are anti Semitic  !!!!!!!!

  What a simplistic question .

Are you really asking whether Chinese can make claims of Anti Semitism if someone questions their treatment of Uigars ?

Comprehension issues again.

 

Israel often makes false claims of anti semitism to dismiss and ignore legitimate criticisms.

 

Is there another group that you can name that successfully uses the same tactic, i.e. they accuse the critic of such and such and therefore the criticism is invalid.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Comprehension issues again.

 

Israel often makes false claims of anti semitism to dismiss and ignore legitimate criticisms.

 

Please provide some examples and I will happily read the links this time 

   When has Israel made false claims of anti Semitism   ?

 

[MrMojoRisin]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

You have provided a link to a book or a 4220 word essay published 20 years ago and you expect me to read it and reply to the points raised in the book .

  I will not be doing that .

You are asking me to write a book myself  commenting on the book your provided 

The link is called "No its not anti semiotic" , going by the title of the book, I doubt it backs up your claim that Jews have had a free pass .

   Could you just tell me that the free pass is that Jews have got ?

   Giving me a book to read is a cop out and it doesn't even seem to back up your claim's, going by the book title 

Oh, you think discussing topics as complex and complicated (not to mention emotionally charged) as the Israel / Palestine conflict and anti semitism should be conducted at the level of a 5 year old and require zero effort.

 

No wonder every single post from you on this topic is so wrong, superficial and banal.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Oh, you think discussing topics as complex and complicated (not to mention emotionally charged) as the Israel / Palestine conflict and anti semitism should be conducted at the level of a 5 year old and require zero effort.

 

No wonder every single post from you on this topic is so wrong, superficial and banal.

 

Look,  if you cannot write things and explain  using your own words, then stop making accusations which you cannot back up .

   If you cannot state the "free passes" that Jews get , then stop making the claim .

[MrMojoRisin]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Please provide some examples and I will happily read the links this time 

   When has Israel made false claims of anti Semitism   ?

 

Never.

No Israeli institution, public figure or citizen has ever made false accusations of antisemitism.

There is not a flood of academic papers and news articles on the internet detailing the difference between anti semitism and legitimate criticism of Israeli that exist due to the prevalence of false accusations of anti semitism.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Never.

No Israeli institution, public figure or citizen has ever made false accusations of antisemitism.

There is not a flood of academic papers and news articles on the internet detailing the difference between anti semitism and legitimate criticism of Israeli that exist due to the prevalence of false accusations of anti semitism.

 

Can you please just answer my question ?

Give me an example of when Israel has wrongly claimed Anti Semitism in defence of its actions .

   Or is this yet another claim that you cannot back up ?

 

[MrMojoRisin]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Can you please just answer my question ?

Give me an example of when Israel has wrongly claimed Anti Semitism in defence of its actions .

   Or is this yet another claim that you cannot back up ?

 

Here's the Israeli Education minister in 2002:

 

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1906/S00076/dont-be-caught-out-by-the-trick.htm

Edited September 17, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1906/S00076/dont-be-caught-out-by-the-trick.htm

That just says the same thing that you did , it makes the same  claim that Israel makes false claims on Anti Semitism .

   You still haven't provided an example of when Israel has done this , someone else making the same claim doesn't make the claim legitimate .

   Can you provide a link to a story when Israel made a false claim of anti Semitism ?

[Nick Carter icp]

14 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Here's the Israeli Education minister in 2002:

 

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1906/S00076/dont-be-caught-out-by-the-trick.htm

The actual link says "Former"

 

"In August 2002 former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni........................ "

   You omitted the "former" bit , which is quite important when claiming what Israel's says , because former ministers do not speak on behalf of Israel , like current ministers do 

 

[MrMojoRisin]

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

That just says the same thing that you did , it makes the same  claim that Israel makes false claims on Anti Semitism .

   You still haven't provided an example of when Israel has done this , someone else making the same claim doesn't make the claim legitimate .

   Can you provide a link to a story when Israel made a false claim of anti Semitism ?

.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[Nick Carter icp]

8 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

 

You guys need to stop being “thread topic nazis” - leave it to the moderators.

 

I do see what you did there 

"You guys" , you have used that phrase to describe people whom are Israel supporters or people whom you think are Jewish , "You guys".

  You are telling posters who you think are Jewish to stop behaving like Nazis .

   I do believe that that is regarded as Anti Semitism because Ken Livingstone got kicked out the Labour party for telling a Jewish man to stop pushing and behaving like  Nazi concertation camp guard and for that they kicked him out the Labour party for anti Semitism .

   You don't seem to even realise when you make Anti Semitic remarks .

Edited September 17, 2023 by Nick Carter icp

[MrMojoRisin]

16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I do see what you did there 

"You guys" , you have used that phrase to describe people whom are Israel supporters or people whom you think are Jewish , "You guys".

  You are telling posters who you think are Jewish to stop behaving like Nazis .

   I do believe that that is regarded as Anti Semitism because Ken Livingstone got kicked out the Labour party for telling a Jewish man to stop pushing and behaving like  Nazi concertation camp guard and for that they licked him out the Labour party of anti Semitism .

   You don't seem to even realise when you make Anti Semitic remarks .

I don't think you're a Jew, I think you're a <deleted>.

 

All you are doing post after post is fishing for an opportunity to cry "antisemitism".

 

Your posts are wildly inaccurate, have zero substance, zero intelligence and zero merit.

 

Anyone scrolling through this thread will benefit not an ounce on the topic from reading what you have posted - it is nothing but inane, pointless, childish gibberish.

 

IMHO - I do believe Israeli's and Jews the world over are thoroughly embarrassed by your efforts here.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

I don't think you're a Jew, I think you're a <deleted>.

 

All you are doing post after post is fishing for an opportunity to cry "antisemitism".

 

Your posts are wildly inaccurate, have zero substance, zero intelligence and zero merit.

 

Anyone scrolling through this thread will benefit not an ounce on the topic from reading what you have posted - it is nothing but inane, pointless, childish gibberish.

 

IMHO - I do believe Israeli's and Jews the world over are thoroughly embarrassed by your efforts here.

 

Look, you are just continuing to make wild untrue accusations which you refuse  to back up with anything factual (because you cannot , because they aren't true) 

   You have made numerous anti Semitic posts and you become abusive and defensive they they are pointed out and deny them  .

   Do not be concerned about Israelis and Jews the World over reading this , because its only me and you here ????

 

   Posters online :

• Nick Carter icp
•  
• MrMojoRisin

[MrMojoRisin]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Look, you are just continuing to make wild untrue accusations which you refuse  to back up with anything factual (because you cannot , because they aren't true) 

   You have made numerous anti Semitic posts and you become abusive and defensive they they are pointed out and deny them  .

   Do not be concerned about Israelis and Jews the World over reading this , because its only me and you here ????

 

   Posters online :

• Nick Carter icp
•  
• MrMojoRisin

Another inane, pointless and childish gibberish post.

At least you are consistent.

[bignok]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Not at all 

I was pointing out that your accusation that Jews have got a free pass to oppress Palestinians is incorrect , because its quite common the World over for one group to oppress others, which means Jews haven't been given a free pass to do it 

These lefties never admit to being wrong about anything

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, bignok said:

These lefties never admit to being wrong about anything

Let me correct that for you.

 

Antisemites never admit to being antisemites.

 

They expose themselves with their antisemitic remarks, which of course they deny are antisemitic.

 

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Well of course not , Non  Jews cannot state people who oppose them are anti Semitic  !!!!!!!!

  What a simplistic question .

Are you really asking whether Chinese can make claims of Anti Semitism if someone questions their treatment of Uigars ?

What don't you understand about the fact that not all Jews are Israelis? By your kind of reckoning, any statement condemning anything reprehensible that Israelis do is antisemitic.

[placeholder]

17 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I do see what you did there 

"You guys" , you have used that phrase to describe people whom are Israel supporters or people whom you think are Jewish , "You guys".

  You are telling posters who you think are Jewish to stop behaving like Nazis .

   I do believe that that is regarded as Anti Semitism because Ken Livingstone got kicked out the Labour party for telling a Jewish man to stop pushing and behaving like  Nazi concertation camp guard and for that they kicked him out the Labour party for anti Semitism .

   You don't seem to even realise when you make Anti Semitic remarks .

Mind-reading much?

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Mind-reading much?

I wasn't mind reading at all ,  no .

[placeholder]

19 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

There are numerous groups of people the World  who get treated way worse than the Palestinians .

   Jews have faced persecution in  numerous Countries , there is nothing special about Israels treatment of Palestinian's , others get treated much worse .

  Israeli historians can make any claim they like and others can also make any claim they like .

   Its not just Jews who get a free pass to make claims about history , that free pass is available to one and all 

"Israeli historians can make any claim they like and others can also make any claim they like"

This is a partiularly bizarre example of utter negativism. According to you, anyone can make any clams they like. So, if that's the case, should Holocaust deniers should get a free pass, too?.

And the rest of this will be addressed to rational thinkers. Israel has recived more than 260 billion current dollars in foreign aid from the US since it's founding. That in not only more per capita than any other country in the world has received from the US but more in absolute terms as well. Has any other major violator of human right received anything like a comparable amount.

 

"In 2016, the U.S. and Israeli governments signed their third 10-year Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on military aid, covering FY2019 to FY2028. Under the terms of the MOU, the United States pledged to provide—subject to congressional appropriation—$38 billion in military aid ($33 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) grants plus $5 billion in missile defense appropriations) to Israel. Israel is the first international operator of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Department of Defense’s fifth-generation stealth aircraft, considered to be the most technologically advanced fighter jet ever made. To date, Israel has purchased 50 F-35s in three separate contracts, funded with U.S. assistance, and has taken delivery of 36."

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What don't you understand about the fact that not all Jews are Israelis? By your kind of reckoning, any statement condemning anything reprehensible that Israelis do is antisemitic.

I am fully aware that not all Jews are Israeli and I expect I have stated that myself somewhere .

  Also, I was not saying that any criticism of Israel is anti Semitic , and just like every other Country in the World , you can be critical of Israel .

   I was asking why some people are only critical of Israel and turn a blind eye to other Countries behaviour .

  People who are fully supportive of the Palestinian cause but take no interest in the genocide of the Rohingya   in Myanmar or the atrocities occurring in Yemen .

   Wonder why they just support the Palestinians  ?

     

[placeholder]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

I am fully aware that not all Jews are Israeli and I expect I have stated that myself somewhere .

  Also, I was not saying that any criticism of Israel is anti Semitic , and just like every other Country in the World , you can be critical of Israel .

   I was asking why some people are only critical of Israel and turn a blind eye to other Countries behaviour .

  People who are fully supportive of the Palestinian cause but take no interest in the genocide of the Rohingya   in Myanmar or the atrocities occurring in Yemen .

   Wonder why they just support the Palestinians  ?

     

More vagueness from you. Who are these people who only criticize Israel.? I included strong condemnations of Israeli actions from Amnesty International. Are they guilty of this? 

You tried that one on with mojorasin and when he pointed out that he had explicitly condemned the Chinese treatment of Uyghurs in this thread, you asked him to prove that he had condemned other human rights violations in other threads. Who is there who keeps track of where they posted comments addressing specific issues? Clearly,  you got punked and instead of acknowledging that, made a very lame attempt at deflection.

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Mind-reading much?

So, you know that when mojorasin wrote "you guys" he believed that he was replying to Jewish members of aseannow? You got any actual evidence to support that? If not, then I guess it's either down to mindreading or you taking a cheap shot.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

"Israeli historians can make any claim they like and others can also make any claim they like"

This is a partiularly bizarre example of utter negativism. According to you, anyone can make any clams they like. So, if that's the case, should Holocaust deniers should get a free pass, too?.

 

Holocaust denies can make the claim and deny the Holocaust and other people can refute that claim .

   I was replying to the claim that some (Israeli)   Historians were wrong about some on the things they claim , some people say Palestinians voluntary fled their homes during the 1948 war , some say they were forced to leave 

[Nick Carter icp]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So, you know that when mojorasin wrote "you guys" he believed that he was replying to Jewish members of aseannow? You got any actual evidence to support that? If not, then I guess it's either down to mindreading or you taking a cheap shot.

Yes, Mojorasin used the term "You guys" when replying to a Jewish poster and he also used the term "You guys" as a collective term for people who support Israel and also used the term Nazi in the sentence .

   *You  guys (Jews) need to stop behaving like  Nazis*

Is what he meant 
 

  

Edited September 18, 2023 by Nick Carter icp

[Nick Carter icp]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

More vagueness from you. Who are these people who only criticize Israel.? I included strong condemnations of Israeli actions from Amnesty International. Are they guilty of this? 

You tried that one on with mojorasin and when he pointed out that he had explicitly condemned the Chinese treatment of Uyghurs in this thread, you asked him to prove that he had condemned other human rights violations in other threads. 

I asked Mojorasin to provide links to the threads where he has condemned other Countries for their behaviour , like the Chinese treatment of the Uigars , the Burmese treatment of the Rohingya and the atrocities by Saudi in Yemen (Threads about the subject rather than single posts in threads)

   I am still waiting for him to provide those links to those threads . 

I am also waiting for him to state what Jews get with their "free pass" as he claims they get 

  

I am also waiting for him to provide links where Israel has unfairly  accused people of anti Semitism after they criticised Israel .

[placeholder]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

I asked Mojorasin to provide links to the threads where he has condemned other Countries for their behaviour , like the Chinese treatment of the Uigars , the Burmese treatment of the Rohingya and the atrocities by Saudi in Yemen (Threads about the subject rather than single posts in threads)

   I am still waiting for him to provide those links to those threads . 

I am also waiting for him to state what Jews get with their "free pass" as he claims they get 

  

I am also waiting for him to provide links where Israel has unfairly  accused people of anti Semitism after they criticised Israel .

Really? You think it's rational, given that the search engine in aseannow is not exactly brilliant, to expect someone to go back and prove to you that they have protested the human rights violatiosn committed all these different nations? That's bizarre and unreasonable. It's enough that he provided proof that he doesn't single out Israel. And the whole notion that people should pay equal attention to every nation that violates human rights is also bizarre. 

And, tell, me where have you ever condemned Israel for its human rights violations?

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Really? You think it's rational, given that the search engine in aseannow is not exactly brilliant, to expect someone to go back and prove to you that they have protested the human rights violatiosn committed all these different nations? That's bizarre and unreasonable. It's enough that he provided proof that he doesn't single out Israel. And the whole notion that people should pay equal attention to every nation that violates human rights is also bizarre. 

And, tell, me where have you ever condemned Israel for its human rights violations?

The threads do not exist or the threads that do exist  get very little traffic, seems people are not interested in the Rohingya or the Uigars or the Kurds or the Marsh Arabs or the 5000 other groups of people in a similar situation to the Palestinians .

   Posters take no interest in atrocities occurring in China , Myanmar, Yemen and various other places , but they all take an interest in threads when Israel is involved