Outrage over Abbas's antisemitic speech on Jews and Holocaust

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, retarius said:

Human Rights Watch has said that Israel is an apartheid state, it is a well known and respected human rights organisation. I believe them rather than news on the TV or western sourced media.  

I think Israel's treatment of Palestinians is disgraceful, barbaric and shameful. Palestinians are human beings as well, and if you walk a mile in their shoes, you might be able to understand.

I do understand that many farangs are ignorant of the real situation in Palestine  and will not be able to understand this point of view. 

How is any of that relevant to Abbas’s deliberately offensive and inflammatory remarks?

[MrMojoRisin]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How is any of that relevant to Abbas’s deliberately offensive and inflammatory remarks?

Abbas exists in a vacuum?

[jonclark]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Regardless, Abbas’ comments are disgraceful and only serve to play into the hand of the extremists in Israel.

 

Yes, we can all be critical of his comments but as Abbas is a man of 87 I cannot help but wonder how many Palastinians he has watched over being buried in his lifetime after being killed at the hands of Israel.  Maybe their blood has tainted his words? 

 

Love beats hate everytime, but hate only fuels more hate - Jim Jefferies. 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Abbas exists in a vacuum?

No he doesn’t.

 

The enemies of the people he represents can hear what he says.

 

When he engages in deliberately offensive and inflammatory remarks the enemies of the people he represents can and will use his remarks to their advantage.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, jonclark said:

Yes, we can all be critical of his comments but as Abbas is a man of 87 I cannot help but wonder how many Palastinians he has watched over being buried in his lifetime after being killed at the hands of Israel.  Maybe their blood has tainted his words? 

 

Love beats hate everytime, but hate only fuels more hate - Jim Jefferies. 

And yet here we have Abbas feeding hate with deliberately offensive and inflammatory remarks.

 

 

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

As it stands, the Palestinians have two choices:

1. Die in silence

2. Die fighting

 

Hypothetically,if the Palestinians were to go full Gandhi - nothing but non violent protest and also dropped all of the religious and bigoted rhetoric - what would that achieve for them?
 

Would the rest of the world step in to impose peace in the Middle East or would it simply allow Israel to accelerate the theft of the remaining land?

 

Normally, in any David v Goliath situation, it is David that garners overwhelming support - why is it not so here?

Going full Gandhi would allow the Palestinians to win, but it would take time. A generation will pass before people stop  thinking of Palestinian terrorists.

[MrMojoRisin]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No he doesn’t.

 

The enemies of the people he represents can hear what he says.

 

When he engages in deliberately offensive and inflammatory remarks the enemies of the people he represents can and will use his remarks to their advantage.

 

So Abbas should censor himself and ignore internal Palestinian politics to simply focus on placating the Israeli’s?

 

What good has placating the Israeli’s ever done?

[1duckyboy]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

Why on earth would he give Israel another excuse to eliminate Palestine?

Israel doesn't need another excuse, it makes it's own.

[MrMojoRisin]

23 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Going full Gandhi would allow the Palestinians to win, but it would take time. A generation will pass before people stop  thinking of Palestinian terrorists.

Would it?

 

Who’s to say that the minute they stop resisting that they don’t get steamrolled and wiped from existence?

 

It really is quite the dilemma.

 

Any solution is going to have to come from the outside - neither Israel nor Palestine will ever be able to overcome their own internal hardliners.

Edited September 8, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

So Abbas should censor himself and ignore internal Palestinian politics to simply focus on placating the Israeli’s?

 

What good has placating the Israeli’s ever done?

From the OP:

 

The German ambassador to Israel, Steffen Seibert, added: "The Palestinians deserve to hear the historical truth from their leader, not such distortions."

 

I wouldn’t argue deliberately offensive and inflammatory lies serve any positive purpose to Palestinian internal politics or the furtherance of the Palestinian cause.

 

They certainly feed right into the hands of extremists within Israel.

 

Zero positive for Palestinians.

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[MrMojoRisin]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

From the OP:

 

The German ambassador to Israel, Steffen Seibert, added: "The Palestinians deserve to hear the historical truth from their leader, not such distortions."

 

I wouldn’t argue deliberately offensive and inflammatory lies serve any positive purpose to Palestinian internal politics or the furtherance of the Palestinian cause.

 

They certainly Fred right into the hands of extremists within Israel.

 

Zero positive for Palestinians.

 

Who’s Fred?

[Cory1848]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Hypocrisy from the Israelis who are doing to the Palestinians what the Germans did to the Jews before and during WW2.

 

Absolutely not. As badly as the Israeli state has treated the Palestinians, they have not rounded up six million of them and murdered them in cold blood. False equivalence.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Who’s Fred?

Well done, you found my typo.

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

I totally misinterpretted the headline and assumed one of the Super Troupers had said something stupid.

Me too at first.

[koolkarl]

Where did Abbas get his PhD, in a crackerjack box?  He is extremely ignorant and only makes complex matters worse.  Israel has made important technological inventions; what have the Palestinians contributed to the world?  Israel is simply defending itself.  The Palestinians don't need to worry, Air Canada is waiting for them at the airport !

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

Absolutely not. As badly as the Israeli state has treated the Palestinians, they have not rounded up six million of them and murdered them in cold blood. False equivalence.

While I do think it’s a false equivalence, many Israelis and Jews outside of Israel do support the idea that Irael has a unique historical position to speak up for human rights and the rights of others to nationhood and self determination.

Israel is not a homogeneous political entity there is a broad political spectrum ranging from the extremist nationalists through to liberals supporting peace and engagement.

 

Sadly Abbas has just handed the extremists political ammunition that they will use in their arguments agains Palestine and peace with Palestine.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, koolkarl said:

Where did Abbas get his PhD, in a crackerjack box?  He is extremely ignorant and only makes complex matters worse.  Israel has made important technological inventions; what have the Palestinians contributed to the world?  Israel is simply defending itself.  The Palestinians don't need to worry, Air Canada is waiting for them at the airport !

Extremely ignorant you say.

[MrMojoRisin]

6 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

Absolutely not. As badly as the Israeli state has treated the Palestinians, they have not rounded up six million of them and murdered them in cold blood. False equivalence.

It is a false equivalence.

 

The holocaust is without doubt clearly the low point of humanity.

Here’s a question though - what current situation in the world today is most comparable to the holocaust?

 

For me, two spring to mind:

 

China’s treatment of the Uyghur’s

Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian’s

 

The West is all but silent on both.

 

Why?

 

 

 

 

 

[proton]

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The Palestinians are in a tough spot; remain silent and docile in the face of what is effectively a slow motion genocide being perpetrated upon them or resort to terrorism which, ultimately, only harms their own cause.

 

The fault lies with the rest of the world that continues to turn a blind eye to the ongoing injustice of Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people and theft of their land.
 

The Germans, more than any others, should recognise what is occurring and be at the vanguard of calls for an immediate two state solution.

On the other hand they have been offered their own country since the 1930's and always said no due to their hatred of Jews and not wanting the creation of Israel, attacked by Arab armies on it's founding and since.. Israel is the victim in the middle east not so called Palestinians.

[MrMojoRisin]

10 minutes ago, proton said:

On the other hand they have been offered their own country since the 1930's and always said no due to their hatred of Jews and not wanting the creation of Israel, attacked by Arab armies on it's founding and since.. Israel is the victim in the middle east not so called Palestinians.

“So called Palestinians”?

 

Israel has never accepted the green line.

 

Both sides (mostly Israel though) bear some responsibility for the current situation.

 

The type of fanaticism expressed in your post is the chief reason there has been no peace.

 

[Danderman123]

48 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Would it?

 

Who’s to say that the minute they stop resisting that they don’t get steamrolled and wiped from existence?

 

It really is quite the dilemma.

 

Any solution is going to have to come from the outside - neither Israel nor Palestine will ever be able to overcome their own internal hardliners.

There is no current "resistance" by the Palestinians that is saving the Palestinians from being wiped out of existence. 

 

If you could demonstrate that there is, great.

[Danderman123]

18 minutes ago, proton said:

On the other hand they have been offered their own country since the 1930's and always said no due to their hatred of Jews and not wanting the creation of Israel, attacked by Arab armies on it's founding and since.. Israel is the victim in the middle east not so called Palestinians.

What's a "so-called Palestinian"?

[MrMojoRisin]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

There is no current "resistance" by the Palestinians that is saving the Palestinians from being wiped out of existence. 

 

If you could demonstrate that there is, great.

Slowing, not stopping.

[Danderman123]

Just now, MrMojoRisin said:

Slowing, not stopping.

How so?

 

I would argue that the reverse is true - the more the Palestinians actively resist, the more Israel cracks down. And kills Palestinians.

[MrMojoRisin]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

How so?

 

I would argue that the reverse is true - the more the Palestinians actively resist, the more Israel cracks down. And kills Palestinians.

Of course we’re both just speculating.

 

Do you think if the Palestinians stopped resisting Israel would stop stealing land?

 

My guess, they’d just take the land quicker.

 

Is it better to die on your feet than live on your knees?

Fortunately for me, I’ve never been faced with such a stark choice so I can’t really answer.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The Palestinians are in a tough spot; remain silent and docile in the face of what is effectively a slow motion genocide being perpetrated upon them or resort to terrorism which, ultimately, only harms their own cause.

 

The fault lies with the rest of the world that continues to turn a blind eye to the ongoing injustice of Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people and theft of their land.
 

The Germans, more than any others, should recognise what is occurring and be at the vanguard of calls for an immediate two state solution.

Palestinians could have accepted Israel's right to exist and agreed to a two state solution when they were offered it , but they declined that offer and wanted the whole Country for themselves , they have been trying to eradicate Israel ever since , that is why they are being treated "badly"

[Cory1848]

47 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

While I do think it’s a false equivalence, many Israelis and Jews outside of Israel do support the idea that Irael has a unique historical position to speak up for human rights and the rights of others to nationhood and self determination.

Israel is not a homogeneous political entity there is a broad political spectrum ranging from the extremist nationalists through to liberals supporting peace and engagement.

 

Sadly Abbas has just handed the extremists political ammunition that they will use in their arguments agains Palestine and peace with Palestine.

 

 

While the Israeli state was born in great trauma, and while the Jewish people have been persecuted more than most others over the millennia, and while this may put the Israeli state in a “unique historical position” to advocate for human rights, at the same time I feel that Israelis/Jewish people are no more and no less responsible than any other group of people, or the citizens of any other state, for the maintenance of global civility. In most respects, Israel is just another country, one among a few hundred. Giving Israel a “unique historical position” encourages some people to hold Israel to a higher standard, and thus obsessively criticize Israel for behaving badly when in fact far worse crimes are being committed (at any given moment) in other parts of the world.

 

That said, Israel is domestically in a bad place right now, and as you point out Abbas just gave extremists there more ammunition.

[MrMojoRisin]

12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Palestinians could have accepted Israel's right to exist and agreed to a two state solution when they were offered it , but they declined that offer and wanted the whole Country for themselves , they have been trying to eradicate Israel ever since , that is why they are being treated "badly"

It is dishonest to portray the creation of the state of Israel in such simplistic terms.

 

What exactly is the Israeli’s right to the land they’d been absent from for how long?

 

Why doesn’t Israel agree to a partition along the green line with agreed upon land swaps now?

[MrMojoRisin]

7 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

While the Israeli state was born in great trauma, and while the Jewish people have been persecuted more than most others over the millennia, and while this may put the Israeli state in a “unique historical position” to advocate for human rights, at the same time I feel that Israelis/Jewish people are no more and no less responsible than any other group of people, or the citizens of any other state, for the maintenance of global civility. In most respects, Israel is just another country, one among a few hundred. Giving Israel a “unique historical position” encourages some people to hold Israel to a higher standard, and thus obsessively criticize Israel for behaving badly when in fact far worse crimes are being committed (at any given moment) in other parts of the world.

 

That said, Israel is domestically in a bad place right now, and as you point out Abbas just gave extremists there more ammunition.

“Higher standard”?

????????????

You’re accepting of Israeli crimes because “worse crimes are being committed by others” 

 

What a perfectly moral and logical stance to take.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

“Higher standard”?

????????????

You’re accepting of Israeli crimes because “worse crimes are being committed by others” 

 

What a perfectly moral and logical stance to take.

 

 

That’s some twisted reading of his comment.