Name change > new passport > need new visa?

[Lorry]

A friend who lives in Udon on retirement extensions of a non-O visa had a name change when in his home country. 

He got a new passport with his new name.

The old passport (with visa, retirement extension and reentry permit) has been invalidated.

 

How can he come back to Thailand?

 

He called immigration in Udon. They told him they need a certificate from his home country that he his the same person as in the old passport,  then they would transfer the visa.

But how can he even enter at BKK airport?

Does he need a new visa?

Would he even get a new visa, or would the system realise he has a visa already?

He is afraid he will be stamped in at BKK for 30 days visa-exempt.

[scorecard]

Did he check all of these questions before he departed Thailand / before he got the name change?

[Dan O]

He just needs to follow there direction on validating he's the same person. Pretty standard. If he doesn't he could well just get a 30 day stamp on arrival

[Lorry]

44 minutes ago, Dan O said:

He just needs to follow there direction on validating he's the same person. Pretty standard. If he doesn't he could well just get a 30 day stamp on arrival

Their  direction wasn't overly clear: "we need a certificate from the amphur of your home country" - that was it.

They will certainly need it stamped by the Thai embassy there (which is 600km away and doesn't answer the phone). And what certificate exactly do they need?

 

I thought, too, that this is a pretty standard situation,  so there might be some people here who know. 

[BritTim]

Carefully check the new passport. These days, it will often include a remark that includes the information about the name change. If the new passport has such an endorsement, there should be no need for anything extra.

[scubascuba3]

More importantly, why the name change?

[digger70]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

More importantly, why the name change?

Trying to confuse people or try to hide something.Just thinking.

[The Theory]

7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

More importantly, why the name change?

Good question ????

name change at this age ????

[CMBob]

Presuming there's no reference to the name change in the new passport, I'm guessing what he/she needs is a signed (maybe notarized) statement from the entity that issued the new passport that he/she is the same person listed in the old passport.  With that, shouldn't be a problem in either getting into Thailand (he/she should be careful that they stamp in until the expiration of the current annual extension).  Then, later, also should not be a problem (as long as he retains that signed/notarized statement) to have the local immigration office transfer appropriate stamps to the new passport.

Edited September 16, 2023 by CMBob

[LukKrueng]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

More importantly, why the name change?

Got married and took his husband's name?

On a serious note - there must be a paper trail of the name change. If I was in his shoes I'd bring with me the official paper trail, give the IO both passports with the old one opened to show the re-entry permit and all other relevant documents. This should suffice for the IO to give the correct stamp, maybe with a supervisor consent. If not, he should go to immigratin and try having them rectify the problem 

[Red Phoenix]

20 hours ago, Lorry said:

But how can he even enter at BKK airport?

Does he need a new visa?

Would he even get a new visa, or would the system realise he has a visa already?

He is afraid he will be stamped in at BKK for 30 days visa-exempt.

The old passport will have been invalidated (typically a corner clipped off) when he received the new passport, but the stamps in his old passport are still valid. 

Obviously, if the name in the new passport is not the same as in the old passport, he would have to provide evidence that it is the same person in both passports.

If the new passport contains a reference to he name-change the problem is solved.  Otherwise the would need to get an official document in his home-country from the authority that provided him with the new passport of the name-change.

Note that he would not have any problem entering Thailand with the new passport, but without some evidence of the name-change, he would probably not get stamped in with a Permission to stay based on his Re-Entry Permit.  And without that Re-Entry Permit based entry-stamp he might not have his Permission to stay transfered to his new passport at his local Imm Office.

The worst that could happen is that border-immigration would only stamp him in for a 30-day VisaExempt entry, and that he would then have to apply for a NEW Non Imm O Visa at this local Imm Office.

[bbko]

11 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

More importantly, why the name change?

Being a criminal is hard work.

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, CMBob said:

Presuming there's no reference to the name change in the new passport, I'm guessing what he/she needs is a signed (maybe notarized) statement from the entity that issued the new passport that he/she is the same person listed in the old passport.  With that, shouldn't be a problem in either getting into Thailand (he/she should be careful that they stamp in until the expiration of the current annual extension).  Then, later, also should not be a problem (as long as he retains that signed/notarized statement) to have the local immigration office transfer appropriate stamps to the new passport.

Exactly my  thoughts,  too.

 

There is no reference to the name change in the new passport. 

The entity who issued the new passport 

- is 600km away

- requires an online appointment anyway,  months in advance

- does not answer the phone

- will most probably not understand what he wants,  and once they understand it, they will probably give him the runaround.

And once he obtains some kind of document,  he will have to have it certified by the Thai embassy in his country.

 

I still think,  this would be the correct way (and he should have asked about all this when he got the new passport - problem is, you can't ask the bureaucrats issuing a passport,  and you can't ask the Thai embassy,  both are incomunicado, everything is online,  no phone calls are answered).

 

34 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

The old passport will have been invalidated (typically a corner clipped off) when he received the new passport, but the stamps in his old passport are still valid. 

Obviously, if the name in the new passport is not the same as in the old passport, he would have to provide evidence that it is the same person in both passports.

If the new passport contains a reference to he name-change the problem is solved.  Otherwise the would need to get an official document in his home-country from the authority that provided him with the new passport of the name-change.

Note that he would not have any problem entering Thailand with the new passport, but without some evidence of the name-change, he would probably not get stamped in with a Permission to stay based on his Re-Entry Permit.  And without that Re-Entry Permit based entry-stamp he might not have his Permission to stay transfered to his new passport at his local Imm Office.

The worst that could happen is that border-immigration would only stamp him in for a 30-day VisaExempt entry, and that he would then have to apply for a NEW Non Imm O Visa at this local Imm Office.

I completely agree.

Do all immigration offices accept applications for a non-O visa after entering visa exempt?

CW does, but I seem to remember some offices are reluctant to do this. 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Lorry

[Red Phoenix]

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

I completely agree.

Do all immigration offices accept applications for a non-O visa after entering visa exempt?

CW does, but I seem to remember some offices are reluctant to do this. 

The large majority of Imm Offices accept applications for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa when having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa.

But there are indeed a couple of rogue offices that refuse to do this official 'change of Visa' process, the Chiang-Rai office being one of them. 

From which Imm Office did your friend get his 1-year Permission to stay?  Normally that would be in the province where he has his official address for immigration purposes (except when he made use of a Fixer Agent that his 1-year Permission to stay at an Imm Office where the agent has 'connections').

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Do all immigration offices accept applications for a non-O visa after entering visa exempt?

No

Edited September 16, 2023 by DrJack54

[JimTripper]

Give the new passport, the old passport and the letter to immigration and hope they change it when you arrive.

 

What else can you do? ????????‍♂️

[chickenslegs]

In Thailand a name change comes with a certificate (two certificates if it is a change of given name and family name). Isn't it the same in his own country?

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

Do all immigration offices accept applications for a non-O visa after entering visa exempt?

 

They are all supposed to. However, especially if the applicant's home is a long way from the immigration office, some offices find it too much of a hassle. They seem able to get away with telling you they will not do it.

[Maestro]

21 hours ago, Lorry said:

Their  direction wasn't overly clear: "we need a certificate from the amphur of your home country" - that was it.

They will certainly need it stamped by the Thai embassy there (which is 600km away and doesn't answer the phone). And what certificate exactly do they need?

 

I thought, too, that this is a pretty standard situation,  so there might be some people here who know. 

 

I don't think there is a universal standard. If I knew and told you how it is done in Switzerland, it would not help your friend if he changed his name in Ecuador.

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

From which Imm Office did your friend get his 1-year Permission to stay?

Udon

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Udon

Have you stated reason for name change.

 

Ask as he previously obtaining extensions in UT and knowing that it would complicate things why would someone change name.

 

It doesn't help to hide travel history to Thailand and cover up things such as overstay. 

 

EDIT: just read the thread again.

Couple of folk have asked "reason for name change" 

You did not address that.

If someone asked for my advice re that, be it a friend or bar stool ....I would ask WHY. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by DrJack54

[Red Phoenix]

12 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Udon

For what it's worth > I have never come across a post of someone being denied applying for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa from a VisaExempt or Tourist entry at the Udon Thani Imm Office.  But a phone-call to the office can provide confirmation whether you can apply there.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Red Phoenix

[Lorry]

14 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Couple of folk have asked "reason for name change" 

You did not address that.

If someone asked for my advice re that, be it a friend or bar stool ....I would ask WHY. 

I didn't address these questions as they seemed quite unhelpful ("criminal" blablabla)

 

The reason of the name change had nothing to do with Thailand,  it was some family matter in his home country (family are all of the same nationality,  no Thais involved). Absolutely legitimate.

 

21 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

It doesn't help to hide travel history to Thailand and cover up things such as overstay. 

I think so, too.

But this implies that Thai immigration IS aware that he is the same person as in the old passport, doesn't it? Which is the topic of the whole thread...

[DrJack54]

19 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Absolutely legitimate.

I have no time for mystery novels.

Surely if the "friend" has been on annual extensions at Udon Thani  he can ask forum directly 

Edited September 16, 2023 by DrJack54

[Lorry]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I have no time for mystery novels.

Surely if the "friend" has been on annual extensions at Udon Thani  he can ask forum directly 

Why always so aggressive?

And what is so mysterious? You want to delve into family law of some European country?

 

Why is the reason for the name change important, anyway? Immigration might find a name change suspicious? 

Maybe that's a point. 

But name changes are pretty standard,  especially in Thailand. 

 

It was my idea to ask here.

His idea was to apply for a new visa. I always thought you can't have 2 visas at the same time so I thought the correct way should be more along the lines CMbob and RedPhoenix described first. 

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

But a phone-call to the office can provide confirmation whether you can apply there.

Sounds like a good idea.

[LikeItHot]

20 hours ago, The Theory said:

Good question ????

name change at this age ????

I can't speak for him but I am getting dual citizenship and the new country will be using my birth name which is different from my current passport.  While it should be ok it would be better if everything matched.  Naturally I needed to think about Thailand before modifying my current nation passport and it's effect on my visa and Thai banking etc. After research I decided to deal with problems if they arrise rather than rock the boat prematurely.  Bottom line is he should have researched this thoroughly before making a change, not after but also it is not always an indication of being surreptitious.  One thing for sure is that Thailand will make it as difficult and expensive as possible for him.

[bigt3116]

13 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I have no time for mystery novels.

Maybe you can explain how knowing why he changed his name will change the correct answer? Of course it makes no difference, you just want to be nosy and rude!

[The Theory]

11 minutes ago, LikeItHot said:

One thing for sure is that Thailand will make it as difficult and expensive as possible for him.

You know the reason. Some deported or black listed try to come back to Thailand by changing name and passport at the same time (I'm not saying this is his case). Immigration use different tools to identify those, "face recognition" is one. 

[bigt3116]

4 minutes ago, The Theory said:

You know the reason. Some deported or black listed try to come back to Thailand by changing name and passport at the same time (I'm not saying this is his case). Immigration use different tools to identify those, "face recognition" is one. 

The OP's friend is going to use both the old and the new passport when he enters, so it can't possible be anything to do with blacklisting.