'The Country Was Thriving': Joe Rogan Says That 'More Things Were Getting Done' When Donald Trump Was President — Unemployment Was Down, Regulations Relaxed. Is He Right?

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? A rebound year? So for what country was 2022 a rebound year? Was worldwide inflation the fault of the Biden administration? What happened in 2020 and 2021 that affected the world economy in 2022? Care to guess?

Actually, the USA fared far better in 2022 than did other major developed nations. And better than most other developed nations. Inflation fell faster, unemployment was very low, and GDP grew at a healthy pace.

Well if you care to sort out your own jumbled words it might be seen that we basically agree. 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well if you care to sort out your own jumbled words it might be seen that we basically agree. 

Once again, you make an unflattering characterization of my words, but no actual analysis to back it up. It is to laugh.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Off topic, but I'll point out:

 

In 2021 Americans received $1400 stimulus checks.  When that figure is excluded from the 2021 household income the drop is trivial.

 

2021 was also the year of high inflation caused by supply chain disruptions.  Wage increases always lag sudden surges in inflation.  I expect things will show significant improvement for 2022 and 2023.

Looks like your inflation comments are about one year out. Peak US inflation was July 22, after which it improved to June 23. Now it's edging up again due to high energy prices plus effects of higher wages.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Once again, you make an unflattering characterization of my words, but no actual analysis to back it up. It is to laugh.

It is. 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It is. 

Not surprising that you'd come up with an empty, vacuous reply. What else could it be given that you've got nothing.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Looks like your inflation comments are about one year out. Peak US inflation was July 22, after which it improved to June 23. Now it's edging up again due to high energy prices plus effects of higher wages.

You don't think 7% inflation in 2021 is significant?  It's the highest in many years.  https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

An oversupply of cheap labour leads to downward pressure on wages, especially for poor Americans.  Illegal immigrants will work for less. Why pay an American $20 an hour if a Venezualan will take $10? Especially if there are no consequences to hiring the Venezualan.

Yeah, things are simple if you don't think about them.

 

Your "analysis" does not take into account that seasonal farm labor is no longer done by young Americans because they largely live in cities, there are service industries (such as car washes) that would be put out of business by paying the wages Americans would demand, that Americans tend to avoid careers in boom and bust industries such as construction, etc.

 

Immigrants are happy to come to the country for seasonal farm labor or to do minimum wage jobs Americans don't want, and Florida and other places are desperate for roofers, carpenters, electricians, general laborers, etc. to rebuild after hurricanes. 

[Hanaguma]

45 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yeah, things are simple if you don't think about them.

 

Your "analysis" does not take into account that seasonal farm labor is no longer done by young Americans because they largely live in cities, there are service industries (such as car washes) that would be put out of business by paying the wages Americans would demand, that Americans tend to avoid careers in boom and bust industries such as construction, etc.

 

Immigrants are happy to come to the country for seasonal farm labor or to do minimum wage jobs Americans don't want, and Florida and other places are desperate for roofers, carpenters, electricians, general laborers, etc. to rebuild after hurricanes. 

Ah, here we go, the old shibboleth about "jobs that Americans don't want". Do you realize how insulting that is to both Americans and immigrants? Americans are lazy, and immigrants are only good for cleaning toilets.

True there is a shortage of skilled trades, but that can be rectified without hiring unqualified and unvetted foreign labour.  If paying living wages puts some businesses out of business, then so be it. That is the reality of the economy. Better than the public subsidizing illegal immigrants to do the jobs, just to keep the business owners collective heads above water. 

 

Please tell me about these jobs that Americans won't do.  Millions of Americans work on farms, in restaurant kitchens, on construction sites, etc.  There is NO job that is majority illegal immigrant, and very few that are even half immigrant (both legal and illegal).  The problem is providing incentive for the millions of Americans who have left the labour market, and importing an illegal underclass who are vulnerable to exploitation is not the solution.

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Ah, here we go, the old shibboleth about "jobs that Americans don't want". Do you realize how insulting that is to both Americans and immigrants? Americans are lazy, and immigrants are only good for cleaning toilets.

True there is a shortage of skilled trades, but that can be rectified without hiring unqualified and unvetted foreign labour.  If paying living wages puts some businesses out of business, then so be it. That is the reality of the economy. Better than the public subsidizing illegal immigrants to do the jobs, just to keep the business owners collective heads above water. 

 

Please tell me about these jobs that Americans won't do.  Millions of Americans work on farms, in restaurant kitchens, on construction sites, etc.  There is NO job that is majority illegal immigrant, and very few that are even half immigrant (both legal and illegal).  The problem is providing incentive for the millions of Americans who have left the labour market, and importing an illegal underclass who are vulnerable to exploitation is not the solution.

" immigrants are only good for cleaning toilets"?  Those are your words, not mine.  If you read my post I specifically mentioned roofers, carpenters and electricians, and indicated the list goes on.  Those are good paying skilled jobs.

 

Let those who don't want to pay a wage to attract US workers go broke?  That would include almost every fruit and vegetable farmer in the US.  If these farmers provided the pay and benefits required to get young people to travel from cities to the country to do hard stoop labor they would have to raise their prices so high US consumers would buy imported fruits and vegetable.

 

How is the public subsidizing illegal immigrants?  They pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits.  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

 

Allowing in more immigrants at all skill levels who earn and spend will grow the economy, increase the tax take, alleviate the cost of paying Social Security, solve America's demographic problem, and offer many more benefits.  Your cliched rant does is not supported by facts or logic.

 

If you want to continue the discussion we should do it here:  https://aseannow.com/topic/1307341-employers-lose-migrant-workers-fleeing-florida’s-draconian-law/

Edited September 26, 2023 by heybruce

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

" immigrants are only good for cleaning toilets"?  Those are your words, not mine.  If you read my post I specifically mentioned roofers, carpenters and electricians, and indicated the list goes on.  Those are good paying skilled jobs.

 

Let those who don't want to pay a wage to attract US workers go broke?  That would include almost every fruit and vegetable farmer in the US.  If these farmers provided the pay and benefits required to get young people to travel from cities to the country to do hard stoop labor they would have to raise their prices so high US consumers would buy imported fruits and vegetable.

 

How is the public subsidizing illegal immigrants?  They pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits.  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

 

Allowing in more immigrants at all skill levels who earn and spend will grow the economy, increase the tax take, alleviate the cost of paying Social Security, solve America's demographic problem, and offer many more benefits.  Your cliched rant does is not supported by facts or logic.

 

If you want to continue the discussion we should do it here:  https://aseannow.com/topic/1307341-employers-lose-migrant-workers-fleeing-florida’s-draconian-law/

Agreed. Good idea, see you over there.  

[candide]

19 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Ah, here we go, the old shibboleth about "jobs that Americans don't want". Do you realize how insulting that is to both Americans and immigrants? Americans are lazy, and immigrants are only good for cleaning toilets.

True there is a shortage of skilled trades, but that can be rectified without hiring unqualified and unvetted foreign labour.  If paying living wages puts some businesses out of business, then so be it. That is the reality of the economy. Better than the public subsidizing illegal immigrants to do the jobs, just to keep the business owners collective heads above water. 

 

Please tell me about these jobs that Americans won't do.  Millions of Americans work on farms, in restaurant kitchens, on construction sites, etc.  There is NO job that is majority illegal immigrant, and very few that are even half immigrant (both legal and illegal).  The problem is providing incentive for the millions of Americans who have left the labour market, and importing an illegal underclass who are vulnerable to exploitation is not the solution.

The salary is not the main factor for not participating in the labour market.

 

"Right now, the labor force participation rate is 62.8%, down from 63.4% in February 2020. There's not just one reason that workers are sitting out, but several factors have come together to cause the ongoing shortage.

The U.S. Chamber surveyed unemployed workers who lost their jobs during the pandemic on what is keeping them from returning to work. Twenty-seven percent indicated that the need to be home and care for children or other family members has made the return to work difficult or impossible. More than a quarter (28%) indicated that they have been ill and their health has taken priority over looking for work.

In addition to the factors outlined below, the survey also revealed some are still concerned about COVID-19 at work, indicate that pay is too low, or are more focused on acquiring new skills and education before re-entering the job market.

(Not to mention early retirement)

https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage

 

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

The salary is not the main factor for not participating in the labour market.

 

"Right now, the labor force participation rate is 62.8%, down from 63.4% in February 2020. There's not just one reason that workers are sitting out, but several factors have come together to cause the ongoing shortage.

The U.S. Chamber surveyed unemployed workers who lost their jobs during the pandemic on what is keeping them from returning to work. Twenty-seven percent indicated that the need to be home and care for children or other family members has made the return to work difficult or impossible. More than a quarter (28%) indicated that they have been ill and their health has taken priority over looking for work.

In addition to the factors outlined below, the survey also revealed some are still concerned about COVID-19 at work, indicate that pay is too low, or are more focused on acquiring new skills and education before re-entering the job market.

(Not to mention early retirement)

https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage

 

True, not just salary. But there are millions of able bodied Americans who are choosing not to work for reasons other than health or education. They are just taking time off, getting governemnt benefits, living off parents/partners, etc.   It has become all too easy.

[NickyLouie]

USA is finished under the Biden regime.

Irreparable.  

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

You don't think 7% inflation in 2021 is significant?  It's the highest in many years.  https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

Yes, of course significant. But you might check your post too?

 

Inflation was at its recent high last year, not 2021.

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Yes, of course significant. But you might check your post too?

 

Inflation was at its recent high last year, not 2021.

Check the link.  It gives annual inflation, not temporary surges.

[heybruce]

49 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

True, not just salary. But there are millions of able bodied Americans who are choosing not to work for reasons other than health or education. They are just taking time off, getting governemnt benefits, living off parents/partners, etc.   It has become all too easy.

I'm not aware of government benefits that are that generous.

 

Are you suggesting that the government forbid parents from financially supporting their children or one partner from supporting the other.  Seems like government overreach to me.

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Check the link.  It gives annual inflation, not temporary surges.

Checked. Your link is the YoY rate (Dec to Dec), which does not reveal the period of highest inflation.

 

The highest recent US monthly inflation rate was in July '22.

Above 5% for >18 months - not particularly "temporary" and it may not be done yet.

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Checked. Your link is the YoY rate (Dec to Dec), which does not reveal the period of highest inflation.

 

The highest recent US monthly inflation rate was in July '22.

Above 5% for >18 months - not particularly "temporary" and it may not be done yet.

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/

You were comparing income between two consecutive years.  Therefore average inflation per year is the appropriate factor. 

[nauseus]

27 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You were comparing income between two consecutive years.  Therefore average inflation per year is the appropriate factor. 

Income? OK, that's enough. 

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I'm not aware of government benefits that are that generous.

 

Are you suggesting that the government forbid parents from financially supporting their children or one partner from supporting the other.  Seems like government overreach to me.

No. I am suggesting that government subsidies for those who are not working  be cut. There are millions of people who are not working or looking for work, and for no discernable reason. They need to be gently encouraged to rejoin society and discover the joys of shifting for themselves, instead of relying on the goodwill of others. 

[heybruce]

28 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

No. I am suggesting that government subsidies for those who are not working  be cut. There are millions of people who are not working or looking for work, and for no discernable reason. They need to be gently encouraged to rejoin society and discover the joys of shifting for themselves, instead of relying on the goodwill of others. 

What subsidies?  What evidence do you  have to support your claim about millions of people not working for no discernible reason?

[Skipalongcassidy]

21 hours ago, placeholder said:

2020 being a trump year

Gee. What happened that made 2020 a year of decline in the world economy?

What happened that made 2021 more of the same?

What prior major event affected most of the world's economies in 2022?

Which major world economy performed the best in 2022?

Why do so many right-wingers seem to suffer from amnesia?

This just in... The Expectations Index indicating consumers' short-term optimism for the economy also fell for a second straight month in September, dropping to 73.7 from 83.3 in August. Historically, when the index drops below 80, it signals a recession within the next 12 months... can you tell me when does Biden get to claim this is his doing and not Trump's 

[Skipalongcassidy]

20 hours ago, heybruce said:

Off topic, but I'll point out:

 

In 2021 Americans received $1400 stimulus checks.  When that figure is excluded from the 2021 household income the drop is trivial.

 

2021 was also the year of high inflation caused by supply chain disruptions.  Wage increases always lag sudden surges in inflation.  I expect things will show significant improvement for 2022 and 2023.

This just in... The Expectations Index indicating consumers' short-term optimism for the economy also fell for a second straight month in September, dropping to 73.7 from 83.3 in August. Historically, when the index drops below 80, it signals a recession within the next 12 months

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This just in... The Expectations Index indicating consumers' short-term optimism for the economy also fell for a second straight month in September, dropping to 73.7 from 83.3 in August. Historically, when the index drops below 80, it signals a recession within the next 12 months

This just in. Your man is a fraudster. 
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud/index.html

 

I take it this is just another “weaponization of the justice system” or witch hunt against an innocent man in yours and other cultists eyes. 

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This just in... The Expectations Index indicating consumers' short-term optimism for the economy also fell for a second straight month in September, dropping to 73.7 from 83.3 in August. Historically, when the index drops below 80, it signals a recession within the next 12 months... can you tell me when does Biden get to claim this is his doing and not Trump's 

About the time that recession only affects the US.

[daveAustin]

The ‘who is Joe Rogan’ crowd lol. Been on TV, UFC for donkeys years and one of the most popular podcasters in the world for several years. He is also not right wing, more left of centre if anything. You guys seriously need to get out more. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, daveAustin said:

The ‘who is Joe Rogan’ crowd lol. Been on TV, UFC for donkeys years and one of the most popular podcasters in the world for several years. He is also not right wing, more left of centre if anything. You guys seriously need to get out more. 

Alex Jones has been on TV for years, Do I need to get out more if I don't watch him either?

[Skipalongcassidy]

21 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

This just in. Your man is a fraudster. 
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud/index.html

 

I take it this is just another “weaponization of the justice system” or witch hunt against an innocent man in yours and other cultists eyes. 

If you were current in your reading you would know that Trump is not nor ever been my man... I have a disdain for him as a person... that said ...This just in... "The Biden Administration — including top officials at the Justice Department — lied to the American public and engaged in a cover-up that interfered with federal investigators and protected the Biden family, including President Biden himself," the committee said...  Criminals of every party need to prosecuted.

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This just in... "The Biden Administration — including top officials at the Justice Department — lied to the American public and engaged in a cover-up that interfered with federal investigators and protected the Biden family, including President Biden himself," the committee said.

You mean the Republican led Ways and Means committee that is just another government funded proxy for the Trump 2024 campaign?    Oh no... they're not lying... why would they?

[EVENKEEL]

On 9/26/2023 at 2:22 AM, heybruce said:

What subsidies?  What evidence do you  have to support your claim about millions of people not working for no discernible reason?

There's been several conversations on this, surprised you don't stay current