More details on Thai taxation of overseas income

[bob smith]

about as clear as mud, yet again.

 

good luck sticking yer hand in my pocket, that's all I can say.

Srettha and his cronies won't be getting a single penny, neither will the national parks that I have to pay inflated prices for.

and as for public hospitals? not a chance, unless I get my 30 baht healthcare card.

 

no taxation without representation! 

Edited October 3, 2023 by bob smith

[CartagenaWarlock]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

That is NOT the way a "double tax agreement" works.

You pay taxes that is not yet taxed or pay the difference between the two if one is lower than the other. For example, you sell a property for 200K USD and brought the entire amount to Thailand (the year now does not matter). In the US some will pay capital gains and some will not. Let's say you pay x amount in the US and according to Thai income tax rules you must pay y amount. If x >= y, you don't pay anything. If x < y, you pay the difference y-x. That is how US citizens pay their taxes (not corporations) no matter where the income is earned and kept. After paying local taxes, you pay the US the difference. It may be zero or more. 

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Well that law already exists - you don't pay Thai tax on money earned in the previous tax year.  I have no idea but I'd guess they can request proof of when the money was earned. For those with substantial savings/wealth abroad - that should be fairly easy to do but for those living month to month...............somewhat more difficult.

 

Don't forget, there are a subsantial amount of people that do live from month to month - many move abroad on retirement because their pensions go further.

 

Don't panic though - just sit back and see what happens in the next few months.

I presume that the tax due on say pensions from abroad would be due at the end of 2024 and not monthly which gives time for things to settle down. A thought. money transfers from 'Wise' are from Thai bank to Thai bank ie. internal. Have your pension paid into a savings account in your home country and transfer the 'savings' to your Thai account split up among your partner and child, I can imagine there are many ways that a Thai tax accountant could advise.

[Expat68]

My wife and I have property in the UK, I will just let her own all the income from it, they can't prove otherwise 

[buriram39]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

 

The Thai Revenue Department has in a press release explained more about the taxation of income overseas which will affect both some foreigners and some Thai people.

 

The basic idea is, that when money is transferred into Thailand it should be taxed in Thailand if it is income. If the income has been received in another country and later within the same tax year is being transferred to the taxpayer’s account in Thailand it must be taxed in Thailand. If Thailand has a double tax agreement with the country where the money comes from, the tax paid in that foreign country can be deducted in Thailand according to the rules in the double tax agreement.

 

According to Mr. Winit Wisetsuvarnabhumi  Deputy Director General and Spokesperson of the Revenue Department, the new rule basically follows the many international tax treaties, which Thailands is a signatory to. 

 

by Gregers Møller 

 

Full story: ScandAsia 2023-10-04

 

- Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here.

 

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What if the income received overseas is exempt frommtax innthe country of origin?

[jensmann]

we better should get our ambassadors working on it.

double tax treaties are in place.

one should be treated taxed, even if he doesn't reach the minimum. 

zero or 100, taxed is taxed. we shouldn't pay the difference, when Thailand asks for a higher tax rate. point!

[BE88]

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I presume that the tax due on say pensions from abroad would be due at the end of 2024 and not monthly which gives time for things to settle down. A thought. money transfers from 'Wise' are from Thai bank to Thai bank ie. internal. Have your pension paid into a savings account in your home country and transfer the 'savings' to your Thai account split up among your partner and child, I can imagine there are many ways that a Thai tax accountant could advise.

It's impossible for it to work because the tax or immigration authorities will ask you "What income or earnings do you live on?"

 

[bunnydrops]

Another "what if". If you are on  (US) SS  and a pension, but don't make enough to pay taxes after your standard deduction, can Thailand tax the full amount made? To be clearer, you have to make over $27,700 if married before you are taxed on any amount above that. Can Thailand tax you on the $27700?

Edited October 4, 2023 by bunnydrops
addition

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, buriram39 said:

What if the income received overseas is exempt frommtax innthe country of origin?

Unless there is a treaty of such country with Thailand that requires that such income is only taxed in the source country   then since no tax has been paid in said country , there would be no credit, and such the full tax liability would be due, 

But Thailand as many other countries have done, to attract foreign investment might make provisions that such income is taxed at a different rate than domestic income, For instance , in Greece (my plan b country) the rate is 7%. 

So let's see how this thing plays out. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by sirineou

[Tom H]

Repeating existing tax rules. Savings might be excluded?

 

New tax rules will be that they drop this “one year clause”, meaning you cant deposit income abroad and transfer one year later without tax. In focus are Thais, not farangs. We will see.

 

Disadvantage for people living on a monthly basis?

Maybe.

 

I personally dont see an issue with retirement money if double tax agreement exists. Paying and receive back? No. They wont do that zero game.

You just dont have to pay as per declaration in case taxed before.

 

How to control it?

Well its a law defined by self declaration as it is everywhere!

 

Advantage?

Well maybe the tax in Thailand is less than abroad?

 

And:

Consider the inheritance tax and the last will based on Thai law.

Thailand has many “advantages” if you know them. 

 

A last will without knowing tax implications in case of assets should be avoided. Other topic, I know.

My last will took 2 years to understand the tax situation for different assets in the world.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Tom H

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, BE88 said:

It's impossible for it to work because the tax or immigration authorities will ask you "What income or earnings do you live on?"

 

My 'savings' from my foreign savings account ?   Whatever, if I have to pay tax and must show 65k a month anything over that I could transfer to my sons and/or partners account keeping them below the limit where they would be liable for tax. Until the 2024 tax year ends anything can  happen, we just have to wait and see. Those unencumbered with children could always move to Cambodia.

[Tom H]

16 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

Another "what if". If you are on  (US) SS  and a pension, but don't make enough to pay taxes after your standard deduction, can Thailand tax the full amount made?

Yes, but they have also 150,000 Baht free of tax. Then it starts with different percentages.

 

Selfdeclaration to be in line with the law.

But: Who controlls your case?

Noone. See the past.

 

[Galong]

16 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

Another "what if". If you are on  (US) SS  and a pension, but don't make enough to pay taxes after your standard deduction, can Thailand tax the full amount made? To be clearer, you have to make over $27,700 if married before you are taxed on any amount above that. Can Thailand tax you on the $27700?

This is sort of my situation...  US SS directly deposited into my BKK Bank + 2 small pensions [not brought to Thailand unless I need some $]

Plus, I work legally in Thailand and have for 30+ years. I wonder how that combo might affect things. 

[Tom H]

28 minutes ago, jensmann said:

we better should get our ambassadors working on it.

double tax treaties are in place.

one should be treated taxed, even if he doesn't reach the minimum. 

zero or 100, taxed is taxed. we shouldn't pay the difference, when Thailand asks for a higher tax rate. point!

Ambassadors dont work. They just represent and eat at El Gaucho their 5000 Baht steak and give the bill to their accountant:) to save tax and investment for bumbui:).

Edited October 4, 2023 by Tom H

[Tom H]

40 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

My wife and I have property in the UK, I will just let her own all the income from it, they can't prove otherwise 

Its not a falang tax:).

Be aware about inheritance tax in UK and Thailand as a hint:).

Edited October 4, 2023 by Tom H

[BE88]

From what I understand in the usual fog of declarations with what the Thai authorities want to declare and what they do NOT want to say is that: 

 

All expats who reside in Thailand for more than 180 days per year have become tax residents from 1 January 2024 and therefore everyone will have to complete the declaration to the Thai tax authorities and if you do not believe you are double taxed you could declare it with proof, if you are not taxed because in your country of origin because you do not have a tax declaration that proves it, you would pay the taxes to the Thai tax authorities

Edited October 4, 2023 by BE88

[James105]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

If the income has been received in another country and later within the same tax year is being transferred to the taxpayer’s account in Thailand it must be taxed in Thailand

Ok so now I am confused... reading this nothing has changed?   I can still bring in income to Thailand that I received from overseas that has been in a UK bank account for 1+ years without paying tax on it?  

Edited October 4, 2023 by James105

[Skeptic7]

More unclear mumbo-jumbo BS...but zero clarity or anything which explains anything to those whom are concerned. They still haven't a clue. 

 

If it ultimately does apply to "us", then my suggestion is simply noncompliance by all of us. Then if they ever come knocking, react in typically vacuous Thai fashion...smile stupidly, claim ignorance...go 'huh huh huh mai roo' and stare with a silly blank look. 

 

Only difference...in our cases, it will be acting. 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Skeptic7

[jaywalker2]

In fact, the article is wrong. This is not the usual way that taxes are admininstered.  I'm not an expert on international tax law but typically tax payers are obliged to declare their worldwide income on their annual tax returns and are taxed accordingly.  But remittances aren't taxed because that's not income.

 

Also, if you're an expat there aren't many countries that I know of that tax you on your worldwide income. Rather, you're taxed on the income of the country you're living in not what you might have earned in other countries.

 

This provides a perfect tax dodge for the rich, though, who have myriad ways to launder their money.

[kingstonkid]

Going to create a lot of accounting jobs

[koolkarl]

Still clear as mud.  They don't mention the most important thing which is the automatic exchange of asset and income info yearly between members of this OECD  CRS agreement.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, bob smith said:

about as clear as mud, yet again.

 

good luck sticking yer hand in my pocket, that's all I can say.

Srettha and his cronies won't be getting a single penny, neither will the national parks that I have to pay inflated prices for.

and as for public hospitals? not a chance, unless I get my 30 baht healthcare card.

 

no taxation without representation! 

Hear Hear Bob❗I'll drink to that. ????????

When's the Blowout, btw❓????

[bob smith]

3 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Hear Hear Bob❗I'll drink to that. ????????

When's the Blowout, btw❓????

starting at noon today mate!

 

still recovering from last nights blowout..

[NorthernRyland]

They have no feasible system in place to collect these taxes. If you earn income you are required to pay taxes at the end of the year but before then the money has not been taxed, yet you could transfer it into your Thai bank or withdrawal from an ATM.

 

The only solution will be to have foreigners declare their foreign income spent in Thailand and then prove tax receipts to see if that money was actually taxed as they said. The process will be retroactive on operate on the last tax year before the point in which you declare (probably at immigration or when applying for new visas).

 

Unless they open a whole new tax office for foreigners this is going to fall on immigration and apply to people with tourist visas even. Imagine the insanity.

 

Once they realize this is unenforceable given their lazy and incompetent workforce the whole scheme will fall apart and be ignored.

 

 

[freeworld]

4 hours ago, Smokin Joe said:

The most interesting part of the linked article:

 

"Savings is not classified as income"

Does it state in the tax code that savings is income?

 

For most people income is money earned:

ordinary income ie. from Investments, interest, dividends, salaries and wages.

 

Income from capital gains.

Edited October 4, 2023 by freeworld

[Cabradelmar]

Nothing was explained. Only one more embarrassed than the TRD by this latest news is ScandAsia for reporting it as a clarification. 

[beammeup]

Might be a good idea to leave for a few years until the dust settles.

[Quit]

One solution probably is to only take money from your foreign credit or debit card, not wire it to a Thai bank account. 

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, buriram39 said:

What if the income received overseas is exempt frommtax innthe country of origin?

Buri...that,s exactly my situation.My govt gives me a tax exemption on my pensions because they are under a certain threshold . But will the RD recognize this documents? Thats my question.I know...wait and see...Sounds like a huge paper shuffle in the works.

[Tom H]

40 minutes ago, James105 said:

Ok so now I am confused... reading this nothing has changed?   I can still bring in income to Thailand that I received from overseas that has been in a UK bank account for 1+ years without paying tax on it?  

Thats the “existing law”, the guy forgot to tell that this 1 year thing will change.