ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, James105 said:

 

Can you name any right wing person that is openly supporting Hamas?   I'm not aware of any at all.   Lot's of left leaning people do seem to support Hamas though, Jeremy Corbyn once describing them as his friends being quite a prominent example.   Keir Starmer was trending on twitter yesterday also as he supports Isreal but many Labour supporters want him gone for doing so.    The right wing have adopted their usual position of opposing terrorism and I cannot see anything that is different to that so looking forward to the links you will supply that confirms what you are saying here.  

 

   I was speaking about posters here on this forum , rather than people not on this forum 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

What is interesting about this topic is that it seems to have dived the Left and the Right .

In almost every other subject all the Left jump on one side and all the Right jump on the other side , but on this subject the usual Left and Right individual people are on opposing sides . 

   The typical Right winger who is usually in favour of Law and order and opposes Terrorism and often opines that terrorism is connected with Islam , they have suddenly become supporters of such people .   The Right wing does attract Anti Semites , are some Right wingers now showing their true colours of *An enemies enemy is a friend* and they are now supporting the Palestinian cause ?

    The Far Right who oppose both Jews and Islamic Terrorists , whose side are they taking in this conflict ?

   

 

And you have the same thing from the Left. People who are so invested in rhetoric, ideology and abstract concepts that they end up supporting, minimizing, and whatnot Hamas agenda and actions. There are some issues, Israel for example, on which the extremes meet. Not necessarily agreeing or joining forces, but similarly aligned nonetheless.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Can you name any right wing person that is openly supporting Hamas?   I'm not aware of any at all.   Lot's of left leaning people do seem to support Hamas though, Jeremy Corbyn once describing them as his friends being quite a prominent example.   Keir Starmer was trending on twitter yesterday also as he supports Isreal but many Labour supporters want him gone for doing so.    The right wing have adopted their usual position of opposing terrorism and I cannot see anything that is different to that so looking forward to the links you will supply that confirms what you are saying here.  

 

Extreme right wingers will not necessarily support Hamas - but may rejoice at Israel (or 'the Jews') taking a beating. Things like that don't always strictly adhere to ideological lines. Think of it as the-enemy-of-my-enemy thing. Or better yet - good-luck-to-both-sides.

[Yellowtail]

42 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

What is interesting about this topic is that it seems to have dived the Left and the Right .

In almost every other subject all the Left jump on one side and all the Right jump on the other side , but on this subject the usual Left and Right individual people are on opposing sides . 

   The typical Right winger who is usually in favour of Law and order and opposes Terrorism and often opines that terrorism is connected with Islam , they have suddenly become supporters of such people .   The Right wing does attract Anti Semites , are some Right wingers now showing their true colours of *An enemies enemy is a friend* and they are now supporting the Palestinian cause ?

    The Far Right who oppose both Jews and Islamic Terrorists , whose side are they taking in this conflict ?

   

 

Are there antisemites on the right and Zionists on the left? Sure. But I believe support for Palestine/hamas is overwhelmingly from the hard-left, as is antisemitism.

 

You say the "...typical Right winger who is usually in favour of Law and order and opposes Terrorism...". Does that mean that you believe the typical leftist is against law and order, and supports terrorism? While an argument can be made that the hard-left is against law and order and supports terrorism (just look at some universities/politicians in the US) but claiming it is typical I think would be false.  I doubt very much it is typical of the left, much less liberals.

 

I know the far-right are against terrorism (Islamist or otherwise), but do you have anything that supports your claim that the far-right opposes Jews?

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

47 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   I was speaking about posters here on this forum , rather than people not on this forum 

 

Can you name any right-wing poster here on this forum that is openly supporting Hamas?  

 

The only divide I see is with the leftist members, in that a few of them are supporting Isarael. 

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Are there antisemites on the right and Zionists on the left? Sure. But I believe support for Palestine/hamas is overwhelmingly from the hard-left, as is antisemitism.

 

You say the "...typical Right winger who is usually in favour of Law and order and opposes Terrorism...". Does that mean that you believe the typical leftist is against law and order, and supports terrorism? While an argument can be made that the hard-left is against law and order and supports terrorism (just look at some universities/politicians in the US) but claiming it is typical I think would be false.  I doubt very much it is typical of the left, much less liberals.

 

I know the far-right are against terrorism (Islamist or otherwise), but do you have anything that supports your claim that the far-right opposes Jews?

 

 

 

 

   It is my personal opinion and I cannot provide a link to my opinion 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Can you name any right-wing poster here on this forum that is openly supporting Hamas?  

 

The only divide I see is with the leftist members, in that a few of them are supporting Isarael. 

 

I think there's a common ground, of sorts, where support for Hamas and Antisemitism might meet.

I also think that there's a whole lot of partisan co-opting and labeling going on - on both these topics and in Israel.

[Neeranam]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Can you name any right-wing poster here on this forum that is openly supporting Hamas?  

 

The only divide I see is with the leftist members, in that a few of them are supporting Isarael. 

Of course there is no one posting here that supports Hamas, especially after Oct 7.  These people throw that out to anyone who disagrees with Israel's inhumane bombing of Gaza. They are too stupid to understand one can criticize both sides, as obviously it takes two to tango. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Something for the terrorist supporters here, click the YouTube link...............😉

 

 

 

Animals, they were offered an apartment and $10,000 for every person kidnapped. 

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think there's a common ground, of sorts, where support for Hamas and Antisemitism might meet.

I also think that there's a whole lot of partisan co-opting and labeling going on - on both these topics and in Israel.

I agree and I also hope we can keep the leftie or righty thing out of this topic

[transam]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

 

Animals, they were offered an apartment and $10,000 for every person kidnapped. 

The 100% "kosha" vid tells all what this bunch are all about, can't wait for their supporters on here to comment....😂

[Brickleberry]

2 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Words are powerful, and often the ones we avoid using can be just as powerful as the ones we use, sometimes even more so.

 

You said “Yes, the terrorism that Hamas has committed is unforgivable”

 

On 7th October representatives of the Palestinian government of Gaza, Hamas, carried out the worst atrocities this world has seen since the holocaust. Shooting babies in their cots, and beheading some of them, raping women and then burning their bodies, some raped so violently their pelvis was broken. Executing parents in front of their children and beheading some of them, ripping the unborn baby from a pregnant woman and beheading it before beheading the woman. There was of course much more, as I’m sure you are aware.

 

Most normal people referencing these atrocities would instinctively use words like barbaric, inhuman, or monstrous maybe; you however used the much less critical adjective unforgivable, which of course it was, even though you noticeably did not mention those events at all, just a generalisation about terrorism that Hamas has committed.

 

The rest of your comment was mostly blaming the UK, the USA and Israel, calling Israel an invading and occupying force that has stolen land and subjected the Palestinian people to daily terrorism over the last few decades; accusing them of having broken multiple laws and committed multiple war crimes.

 

I read this comment that you made on page 137 carefully, and your historic inaccuracies notwithstanding, I concluded that it showed an irrefutable bias against Israel and towards Hamas. This is the bias that I accused you of, and I stand behind that accusation 100%.

 

You now tell me not to accuse you of things that are not true …. well, I haven’t, have I ?

 

Okay, why don't you tell this to the UN chief who said exactly the same things this morning, that I said 2 days ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67201465

 

Pointing out that Israel has been building illegal settlements on stolen land for decades is a fact. Pointing out that Israelis have also been murdering Palestinians in their homes is a fact. Hamas is a terrorist organization that does not represent the Palestinian people. Hamas committed many atrocities. The British royally screwed up. These are all facts. 

 

I obviously do not condone what Hamas did, but as the United Nations chief said : the attacks did not happen in a vacuum. Others are much happier to believe Biden's version of events; the attacks were completely "unprovoked'

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Of course there is no one posting here that supports Hamas, especially after Oct 7.  These people throw that out to anyone who disagrees with Israel's inhumane bombing of Gaza. They are too stupid to understand one can criticize both sides, as obviously it takes two to tango. 

 

   How would you describe  Hamas attack on Israel ?

You have stated  Israel's response is "inhumane" , but how would you describe the initial Hamas attack ?

   Deserved ?

Had it coming ?

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Of course there is no one posting here that supports Hamas, especially after Oct 7.  These people throw that out to anyone who disagrees with Israel's inhumane bombing of Gaza. They are too stupid to understand one can criticize both sides, as obviously it takes two to tango. 

Why did you claim Hamas never committed war crimes?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Something for the terrorist supporters here, click the YouTube link...............😉

 

 

 

Granted, they are captives, they've been through 'debriefings' and all, the selection of what and who is shown is controlled, and so on.

 

But still....

 

There's this disconnect between them knowing full well what they did, even in contradiction to the tenets of their faith, even admitting it was wrong - and the casualness in which they describe their actions, the orders given. I wonder if there were some among them that refused, or stopped and said  - 'No, I'm not doing that. It's wrong'.

 

Not to paint a rosy picture of the IDF - many bad apples, to be sure - but there is also an element refusing to enlist, or to take part in things deemed immoral. A small minority, yes, but it's there.

 

I'm just wondering if there are counterparts on the other side of the fence.

[transam]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Of course there is no one posting here that supports Hamas, especially after Oct 7.  These people throw that out to anyone who disagrees with Israel's inhumane bombing of Gaza. They are too stupid to understand one can criticize both sides, as obviously it takes two to tango. 

Your comments on my video, if you can read the English.........?  🤭

 

 

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Okay, why don't you tell this to the UN chief who said exactly the same things this morning, that I said 2 days ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67201465

 

Pointing out that Israel has been building illegal settlements on stolen land for decades is a fact. Pointing out that Israelis have also been murdering Palestinians in their homes is a fact. Hamas is a terrorist organization that does not represent the Palestinian people. Hamas committed many atrocities. The British royally screwed up. These are all facts. 

 

I obviously do not condone what Hamas did, but as the United Nations chief said : the attacks did not happen in a vacuum. Others are much happier to believe Biden's version of events; the attacks were completely "unprovoked'

 

That something doesn't happen in a vacuum doesn't mean much. Israel's attack on the Gaza Strip, or the Blockade do not 'happen in a vacuum' either.  There are things which are acceptable, or even if not acceptable, tolerable - the Hamas attack crossed way over that line. Excusing it by this or that is cowardice. An easy way out instead of drawing a line.

 

Notice how these waffle statements usually include a whole lot on what Israel ought to do, and so on - but relatively little as to what Palestinians in general, and the Hamas specifically should. People on here say the world should intervene, the world should force  Israel to stop, to make peace etc. How about a global intervention dismantling Hamas terrorist capabilities? How about the world forcing Hamas to stop its aggression? Or force the Palestinians to make peace?

 

And then you have them posters 'questioning' Israel's view on the UN and its relevant bodies....

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

46 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Okay, why don't you tell this to the UN chief who said exactly the same things this morning, that I said 2 days ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67201465

 

Pointing out that Israel has been building illegal settlements on stolen land for decades is a fact. Pointing out that Israelis have also been murdering Palestinians in their homes is a fact. Hamas is a terrorist organization that does not represent the Palestinian people. Hamas committed many atrocities. The British royally screwed up. These are all facts. 

 

I obviously do not condone what Hamas did, but as the United Nations chief said : the attacks did not happen in a vacuum. Others are much happier to believe Biden's version of events; the attacks were completely "unprovoked'

 

“Hamas is a terrorist organization that does not represent the Palestinian people”

 

…. really, well they’ve been the government of Gaza, since 2006, elected by the Palestinian population of Gaza.

 

“I obviously do not condone what Hamas did”

 

Not obvious to me, haven’t seen any condemnation from you that is anywhere near proportionate to the barbarism of the attack.

 

As for  Antonio Guterres, his comment that the attacks did not happen in a vacuum is a disgrace; it is a victim blaming blood libel, and he should resign immediately. Just when the UN is trying to justify its very existence, the Secretary General makes this appalling comment showing that he has no morality or impartiality.

 

And you are citing this as a justification for the atrocities carried out by Hamas; no wonder that your condemnation of Hamas is not obvious to me.

 

The UN was a well intended organisation that has morphed into a pointless relic. The UN Security Council comprises of 15 countries, 10 of which are rotating members, with 5 permanent members. Any of the five permanent members, the USA, Russia, France, China, and the UK, can veto any resolution put forward even if the other 14 members support it.

 

In the last couple of years, Russia has vetoed 4 resolutions regarding Ukraine, and China vetos any resolution regarding their illegal expansionism in the South China sea.

 

Your bias remains undiminished.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

55 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Of course there is no one posting here that supports Hamas

 

Should have gone to Specsavers

[Brickleberry]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That something doesn't happen in a vacuum doesn't mean much. Israel's attack on the Gaza Strip, or the Blockade do not 'happen in a vacuum' either.  There are things which are acceptable, or even if not acceptable, tolerable - the Hamas attack crossed way over that line. Excusing it by this or that is cowardice. An easy way out instead of drawing a line.

 

Notice how these waffle statements usually include a whole lot on what Israel ought to do, and so on - but relatively little as to what Palestinians in general, and the Hamas specifically should. People on here say the world should intervene, the world should force  Israel to stop, to make peace etc. How about a global intervention dismantling Hamas terrorist capabilities? How about the world forcing Hamas to stop its aggression? Or force the Palestinians to make peace?

 

And then you have them posters 'questioning' Israel's view on the UN and its relevant bodies....

 

 

Both of these parties are bad actors; they have done terrible things to each other. It is ridiculous to say "But, they murdered people more violently so they are the bad guys, they crossed a line." Killing people is still killing people - whether you use a machete to behead someone, or American weaponry. Savagery is savagery. Seeing all of those babies and kids bodies piled up outside hospitals in Gaza is horrific. Reading the tales from survivors of Hamas' attack on Israel is horrific. They are both as barbaric as each other.

 

If we keep bleating on about who started this, which declaration caused that, who murders people more violently, then we will never find peace. Iran is itching to get involved, and the entire region could be engulfed in a new holy war between Muslims and Jews. We need to blame both of them, and force them all to sit around a table.

 

 

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

If we keep bleating on about who started this, which declaration caused that, who murders people more violently, then we will never find peace. Iran is itching to get involved, and the entire region could be engulfed in a new holy war between Muslims and Jews. We need to blame both of them, and force them all to sit around a table.

Absolutely. 

[Thorgal]

Palestinian war McCarthyism and blacklisting at full speed but still resulting in moral bankruptcy and an empty list?

[Neeranam]

In response, Israeli occupation forces have yet again indiscriminately bombarded the Gaza Strip, hitting entire residential areas, schools, hospitals, mosques and churches and killing around 5,000 people.

 

https://press.un.org/en/2023/gashc4390.doc.htm#:~:text=In response%2C Israeli occupation forces,and killing around 5%2C000 people.

[Nick Carter icp]

18 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

If we keep bleating on about who started this, which declaration caused that, who murders people more violently, then we will never find peace. Iran is itching to get involved, and the entire region could be engulfed in a new holy war between Muslims and Jews. We need to blame both of them, and force them all to sit around a table.

 

 

 

   Wait , those responsible to the atrocities committed in Israel first neem to be killed , eliminated , that need to happen first before the situation can progress  

[transam]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

In response, Israeli occupation forces have yet again indiscriminately bombarded the Gaza Strip, hitting entire residential areas, schools, hospitals, mosques and churches and killing around 5,000 people.

 

https://press.un.org/en/2023/gashc4390.doc.htm#:~:text=In response%2C Israeli occupation forces,and killing around 5%2C000 people.

So no response from you regarding the interrogation of murdering terrorists video I provided, why is that...? 🤔

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Both of these parties are bad actors; they have done terrible things to each other. It is ridiculous to say "But, they murdered people more violently so they are the bad guys, they crossed a line." Killing people is still killing people - whether you use a machete to behead someone, or American weaponry. Savagery is savagery. Seeing all of those babies and kids bodies piled up outside hospitals in Gaza is horrific. Reading the tales from survivors of Hamas' attack on Israel is horrific. They are both as barbaric as each other.

 

If we keep bleating on about who started this, which declaration caused that, who murders people more violently, then we will never find peace. Iran is itching to get involved, and the entire region could be engulfed in a new holy war between Muslims and Jews. We need to blame both of them, and force them all to sit around a table.

 

 

You're pushing a false equivalence.

You lack moral clarity.

You don't see the difference between the pogrom in south Israel and Israel going after military targets that tragically have human shields at them which is Hamas policy.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

In response, Israeli occupation forces have yet again indiscriminately bombarded the Gaza Strip,

 

   What are Israel "occupying" ?

There are no Israelis inside Gaza , are you saying that Israelis are occupying the land of Israel ?

[Neeranam]

Just now, Jingthing said:

You're pushing a false equivalence.

You lack moral clarity.

You don't see the difference between the pogrom in south Israel and Israel going after military targets that tragically have human shields at them which is Hamas policy.

 

No, he's extremely neutral, and you, understandably to be fair, are not. 

Military target, not, 

https://theworldwatch.com/videos/1612570/new-shocking-footage-of-the-utter-destruction-of-gaza/

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

In response, Israeli occupation forces have yet again indiscriminately bombarded the Gaza Strip, hitting entire residential areas, schools, hospitals, mosques and churches and killing around 5,000 people.

 

https://press.un.org/en/2023/gashc4390.doc.htm#:~:text=In response%2C Israeli occupation forces,and killing around 5%2C000 people.

Hamas wanted this.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

In response, Israeli occupation forces have yet again indiscriminately bombarded the Gaza Strip, hitting entire residential areas, schools, hospitals, mosques and churches and killing around 5,000 people.

 

https://press.un.org/en/2023/gashc4390.doc.htm#:~:text=In response%2C Israeli occupation forces,and killing around 5%2C000 people.

 

Israel Response. You left that bit out you naughty apologist.

 

The representative of Israel said the Special Rapporteur hides behind the guise of human rights to spread lies about his country following the worst attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust.  She is not independent or unbiased, he said, citing instances of support for the terrorist group Hamas on social media and her use of the term “Jewish lobby”. Worse, at an online conference in Gaza, Ms. Albanese said that resistance to occupation requires violence. Is slicing open a pregnant woman and removing the fetus and stabbing it required violence?  Does it look like 1,400 dead Israelis and kidnapped hostages, he asked.  Condemning the Rapporteur for questioning clear acts of genocide committed by Hamas, he highlighted the irony of her taking offense when her antisemitism is called out.  Israel refuses to engage with her, he said, decrying that the UN empowers an antisemitic voice by providing a platform to spread vitriol.