ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

One of your 300 to 400 claim? Fail. 

 

I've already seen that clip. Witness claims Hamas was so nice and polite. Well, she herself is Arab. 

 

Is that the best evidence you have for 0.3% of your claim? 

 

She's not an Arab.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

My quote :

 

"Some 300 to 400 victims were IDF or Israeli police personnel.

There's also Israeli friendly fire from IDF/IAF to Israeli civilians with Merkava tanks and Apache helicopters."

 

 

 

Yasmin Porat witnessed on Israel National Radio her experience from the Hamas attacks and the friendly fire of IDF/Israeli security forces.

 

The 300 to 400 victims of the 1.200 (before 1.400) victims were IDF or Israeli police personnel.

 

Yasmin Porat is not one of the 300 to 400...

 

 

 

What she described is people getting killed in a crossfire, not police/troops shooting on civilians mistaken to be terrorists.

And, of course, she didn't witness it going down, but saw an aftermath.

 

I understand why you want to push this as a major thing - minimizing Hamas attack, casting doubt on casualty figures etc.

 

[Thorgal]

21 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Never heard of the Middle East Eye before so did a quick look-see and they are less than reliable and have strong liberal views, they have Al Jazeera reporters working for them, so this time I'll skip indoctrinating myself, but thanks for the effort.🥴

 

You requested to back up which I did.

 

Yasmin Porat witnessed on Israel National Radio on a Middle East Eye footage her experience from the Hamas attacks and the friendly fire of IDF/Israeli security forces.

 

Israel National Radio footage has been dismissed/rejected because it has been distributed by Middle East Eye ? LOL 

There are no Al Jazeera reporters in the footage : it's only a copy of the genuine Israel National Radio available online and taken over by many news outlets. LOL

 

All this to avoid to back up/answer that Israeli friendly fire with tanks and helicopters resulted in higher Israeli causalities... 

 

[rabas]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

She's not an Arab.

 

Yes, I got that wrong, thought I had read Arab-Israeli but it was not.

[Thorgal]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What she described is people getting killed in a crossfire, not police/troops shooting on civilians mistaken to be terrorists.

And, of course, she didn't witness it going down, but saw an aftermath.

 

I understand why you want to push this as a major thing - minimizing Hamas attack, casting doubt on casualty figures etc.

 

 

Only in your imagination Morch. LOL

 

You can't back up those false intentions that I want to minimize Hamas attacks and casting a doubt on casuality.

 

I only wanted to mention that more Israeli civilian witnesses are coming up with the same stories of Yasmin Porat. Again, don't blame or politicize the messenger. Just discuss the content. LOL

[Thorgal]

4 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Yes, I got that wrong, thought I had read Arab-Israeli but it was not.

 

No problem. Your 0,3% was also wrong. 

[Morch]

Just now, Thorgal said:

 

Only in your imagination Morch. LOL

 

You can't back up those false intentions that I want to minimize Hamas attacks and casting a doubt on casuality.

 

I only wanted to mention that more Israeli civilian witnesses are coming up with the same stories of Yasmin Porat. Again, don't blame or politicize the messenger. Just discuss the content. LOL

 

I don't need to imagine anything. Your posts on these topics speak for themselves.

 

The 'content' was discussed earlier in the topic. Not denied, but put in context and scale down from your insinuations.

[rabas]

3 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

No problem. Your 0,3% was also wrong. 

 

Lol, OK, fair.

 

So she was 0.3% Arab? 

[Thorgal]

Just now, Morch said:

 

I don't need to imagine anything. Your posts on these topics speak for themselves.

 

The 'content' was discussed earlier in the topic. Not denied, but put in context and scale down from your insinuations.

 

More updated news of this "content" is available now on non-English news outlets. I can't post them or they will be reported + deleted.

 

Even some "witness" in Israel declare that Hamas used flame throwers on 7th of October attacks...

 

Again (LOL), just try to comment the content that I've posted not the messenger.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

More updated news of this "content" is available now on non-English news outlets. I can't post them or they will be reported + deleted.

 

Even some "witness" in Israel declare that Hamas used flame throwers on 7th of October attacks...

 

Again (LOL), just try to comment the content that I've posted not the messenger.

 

You can call it 'news', others would say 'propaganda'. Considering your posting history on this topic (and others) and the sources you favor, no reason to take your claims seriously. You posts are routinely criticized both on grounds of content, and with regard to the 'messenger'.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Morch

[Bkk Brian]

 

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

 

One of them :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTQcjyhPOIk&t=46s

 

Here she is, this time in English and a little different to the translation in your vid

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Thorgal]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Lol, OK, fair.

 

So she was 0.3% Arab? 

 

I didnt judge the messenger, only the content of her witnessing...LOL

 

[Thorgal]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You can call it 'news', others would say 'propaganda'. Considering your posting history on this topic (and others) and the sources you favor, no reason to take your claims seriously. You posts are routinely criticized both on grounds of content, and with regard to the 'messenger'.

 

I stop reading if I see 2 sentences with 5 times "you", but I'm looking forward to see more content based critics in the future. Thanks. 

[Thorgal]

38 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

Here she is, this time in English and a little different to the translation in your vid

 

 

 

Mainstream media outlets were all invited in an IDF military base and they could see (some of) the available footages that were available from the 7th October attacks through security cams, dashcams, GoPro's, etc.

 

It was not allowed for the international press inside the room to film during the presentation.

 

So it's possible that the mainstream media of let's say 80 to 90% is more connected to the agenda of the Israeli government. 

The other 10 to 20% more independent and alternative news outlets can be completely the contrary of what the mainstream war propaganda dictates.

 

I watch both to make my unbiased opinion, and yes I have sometimes surprises beyond expectations.

 

Quote from source : 

After watching the atrocities committed by Hamas, foreign journalists must recalibrate the media narrative to align with what they understand is the truth right now.

 

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hkvtcxwz6

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Mainstream media outlets were all invited in an IDF military base and they could see (some of) the available footages that were available from the 7th October attacks through security cams, dashcams, GoPro's, etc.

 

It was not allowed for the international press inside the room to film during the presentation.

 

So it's possible that the mainstream media of let's say 80 to 90% is more connected to the agenda of the Israeli government. 

The other 10 to 20% more independent and alternative news outlets can be completely the contrary of what the mainstream war propaganda dictates.

 

I watch both to make my unbiased opinion, and yes I have sometimes surprises beyond expectations.

 

Quote from source : 

After watching the atrocities committed by Hamas, foreign journalists must recalibrate the media narrative to align with what they understand is the truth right now.

 

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hkvtcxwz6

I know all about that meeting that media was invited to and it was not just main stream media

https://www.yahoo.com/news/foreign-reporters-burst-tears-during-215231538.html

 

Besides which, that has nothing to do with the post of yours and my response

[Thorgal]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I know all about that meeting that media was invited to and it was not just main stream media

https://www.yahoo.com/news/foreign-reporters-burst-tears-during-215231538.html

 

Besides which, that has nothing to do with the post of yours and my response

 

Depends if you want to understand my point :

 

Yasmin Porat provided a genuine live Israeli Radio broadcast in which she provided her findings of the Hamas attacks and the military intervention of the IDF.

 

The Israeli National radio narrative of Y. Porat was actually more pro-Hamas.

 

The updated BBC narrative of Y. Porat is more pro-Israel.

 

No problem for me if you can't (or don't want to) make the difference between both.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Depends if you want to understand my point :

 

Yasmin Porat provided a genuine live Israeli Radio broadcast in which she provided her findings of the Hamas attacks and the military intervention of the IDF.

 

The Israeli National radio narrative of Y. Porat was actually more pro-Hamas.

 

The updated BBC narrative of Y. Porat is more pro-Israel.

 

No problem for me if you can't (or don't want to) make the difference between both.

I know who she is, in fact I posted an English language video of her interview, no subtitles needed and nothing to do with the meeting you deflected with

[Morch]

Disregarding a certain poster's quest to derail topic....

 

 

IDF: No siege at Shifa Hospital, we’ll help move babies to safety; 5 soldiers killed

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-insists-no-siege-on-gazas-shifa-hospital-as-troops-advance-5-soldiers-killed/

 

Apparently there's a way for people to evacuate from the hospital, and IDF in contact with hospital management about moving babies (supposed to happen today).

[Thorgal]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I know who she is, in fact I posted an English language video of her interview, no subtitles needed and nothing to do with the meeting you deflected with

 

OK for me LOL.

[BarraMarra]

Have the old lady and 13 yr old boy been released yet as promised by Hamas yet? and I am pretty sure if flame throwers were used this would have been reported by Sky News BBc and ITN news. i presume Hamas used petrol thrown from a can would have burnt out some houses.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

OK for me LOL.

Well happy to hear that although again I fail to see why you find this so amusing, perhaps its embarrassment each time you are outed.

[Yellowtail]

15 hours ago, still kicking said:

And? Not all Palestinians agree with Hamas from memory 68% are against Hamas.

Okay, so 32 out of 100 Palestinians support hamas. That seems like a lot. 

 

Put another way, if what you saw is true, and if there are ~5.4 million Palestinians, there are 1,728,000 Palestinians that want Israel eradicated.  That seems like a whole lot. 

[Jeff the Chef]

Thought this may be of interest to a lot of members on here, retired/OAP's etc

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/10/older-people-not-spared-hostilities-israel/palestine

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Okay, so 32 out of 100 Palestinians support hamas. That seems like a lot. 

 

Put another way, if what you saw is true, and if there are ~5.4 million Palestinians, there are 1,728,000 Palestinians that want Israel eradicated.  That seems like a whole lot. 

Its more than that.

Clearly the majority of them are against the existence of Israel.

[Jeff the Chef]

Gaza: Israeli Ambulance Strike Apparently Unlawful
Medical Transport Has Special Protections Against Attack

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/07/gaza-israeli-ambulance-strike-apparently-unlawful

[BarraMarra]

Unless Hamas are using them to transport weapons around that won't bother them.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Gaza: Israeli Ambulance Strike Apparently Unlawful
Medical Transport Has Special Protections Against Attack

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/07/gaza-israeli-ambulance-strike-apparently-unlawful

Israel/Palestine: Videos of Hamas-Led Attacks Verified

(Jerusalem, October 18, 2023) – Human Rights Watch has verified four videos from the October 7, 2023 attacks by Hamas-led gunmen, showing three incidents of deliberate killings, and presents this analysis in a video published today. The attacks should be investigated as war crimes.

On the morning of October 7, 2023, heavily armed men breached the fences separating Israel and Gaza and entered southern Israel. At least 1,400 people were killed, many of them civilians, including children, according to Israeli officials. Human Rights Watch continues to investigate these incidents, as well as others, as war crimes.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/18/israel/palestine-videos-hamas-led-attacks-verified

[Eloquent pilgrim]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Medical Transport Has Special Protections Against Attack

 

It doesn't if it’s full of Hamas terrorists nursing their AK-47’s

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Gaza: Israeli Ambulance Strike Apparently Unlawful
Medical Transport Has Special Protections Against Attack

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/07/gaza-israeli-ambulance-strike-apparently-unlawful

 

 

From the link posted:

 

Quote

An Israel Defense Forces spokesperson said in a televised interview that day that: “Our forces saw terrorists using ambulances as a vehicle to move around. They perceived a threat and accordingly we struck that ambulance.” International humanitarian law applicable to the armed conflict between Israel and Palestinian armed forces provides that ambulances used exclusively for medical transportation must be respected and protected in all circumstances, and only lose their protection if being used to commit acts harmful to the enemy.

 

[Thorgal]

44 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Okay, so 32 out of 100 Palestinians support hamas. That seems like a lot. 

 

Put another way, if what you saw is true, and if there are ~5.4 million Palestinians, there are 1,728,000 Palestinians that want Israel eradicated.  That seems like a whole lot. 

 

Last Palestinian elections were from 2006 (+/- 3.600.000 population).

 

Palestinian 2023 demographics are +/- 50% of its population (+/- 5.300.000) is younger than 18 years old (minimum voting age).

If you're not obliged to vote, this means that only a certain proportion is represented, but not all.

 

The Palestinians who voted Hamas (long time ago) where with +/- 2.000.000 less at election times.

The kids -18y (trend of +/- 50% of population for 2006 and 2023) old can't vote.

 

Not all Palestinians in Gaza + West Bank who voted Hamas in 2006 want to do any harm to Israeli population.

 

Only estimated +/- 40.000 Gazans are Hamas soldiers/militants.

 

Thus, the figure of Hamas supporters that want to "eradicate Israel" today is much lower than +/- 1.728.000 and might be higher and even lower today than +/- 40.000.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Thorgal