17 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

 I think it was the UK Channel 4 news.

I have had another search - it appears to be a claim by the Gaza Health Ministry.

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes of course. What other army does that?

But they've been clear this is now a very major war and regretfully there will be many civilians killed.

Blame Hamas terrorists for starting this.

Hamas must be totally removed.

Because after Hamas is removed nothing similar will take its place? The conditions that led to the rise of Hamas will have disappeared?

6 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I have had another search - it appears to be a claim by the Gaza Health Ministry.

Fair enough, do you think they are lying?

Remember when a bunch of - YOU know who - divided the Middle East for themselves after kicking out the Ottomans, actively betraying their promises to the native people groups there just for the sake of fulfilling their own imperial desires. 

 

Over a century later, and this is where we are. Wars of extermination and basically unending anguish and prejudice. And - YOU know who - commenting on it from afar.

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Fair enough, do you think they are lying?

 

If previous fighting rounds are used as reference, the answer is yes. Often, they do.

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because after Hamas is removed nothing similar will take its place? The conditions that led to the rise of hamas will have disappeared?

That's a worry, sure. But maybe the idea that Hamas is a lesser evil, or that it can be dealt with, is out the window. It was more of a problem a few years ago when IS and AQ were on the scene in the Sinai Peninsula. Current reports are chiming Hamas, but the attack also target the other militant contender, Islamic Jihad.

 

Maybe there's not a whole lot of thinking about the day after, at this point.

On 10/7/2023 at 4:22 AM, Thorgal said:

The Kibbutz of Nahal has been overrun by Hamas militants.

 

Rockets have been fired and damaged the electric power station of Rutenberg.

 

A police station and IDF military base has been overrun too.

 

Hamas claims to have captured IDF general Nimrod Aloni.

 

 

 

Notably absent at this point was a call for a ceasefire to allow civilians to escape.

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because after Hamas is removed nothing similar will take its place? The conditions that led to the rise of Hamas will have disappeared?

Same as Germany in 1945.

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because after Hamas is removed nothing similar will take its place? The conditions that led to the rise of Hamas will have disappeared?

To be determined. 

 

48 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because after Hamas is removed nothing similar will take its place? The conditions that led to the rise of Hamas will have disappeared?

Very different calculus. The faster Hamas is nullified as a viable force, the less likely that Iran, its various proxies, and other players like Syria/Russia will choose to escalate in support of Hamas.

 

So it's a matter of  "Quick, before it all blows up".

 

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I agree with you that no one wins and it's certainly tragic. 

Do you think the response of killing 140 children is the right thing to do? I know you don't, but this is what Israel have done. Anything but this would have been more correct. 

 

 

With all due respect did (if true)Israel go into Palestine single out 140 kids and execute them?or could it be (if true) an unintentional result of Hamas going into Israel murdering raping and kidnapping for ransom Israeli citizens? What would you have Israel do?obviously they have to respond and so it goes………

4 minutes ago, Tug said:

With all due respect did (if true)Israel go into Palestine single out 140 kids and execute them?or could it be (if true) an unintentional result of Hamas going into Israel murdering raping and kidnapping for ransom Israeli citizens? What would you have Israel do?obviously they have to respond and so it goes………

Not to mention the well known but rarely reported Hamas tactic of setting up shop in schools/ hospitals/ mosques.  Something the IDF does not do. Nor does the IDF deliberately rape and murder and kidnap foreign nationals who have the misfortune to be caught in the crossfire. 

@Jeff the Chef

 

He's a diplomat and a demagogue. Not to mention a whiner.

 

Palestinians haven't faced wholesale slaughter like the recent Hamas attack for many many years.

Most Palestinians do not get bombed by the IDF. This almost always is tied with Hamas actions, and is confined to the Gaza Strip. The guy represents the PA, anyway....

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/10/10/un-condemns-complete-siege-of-gaza-2

12 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/10/10/un-condemns-complete-siege-of-gaza-2

Out of touch with reality. This is not about Israel's security 'concerns'. This is about hundreds of Israeli civilians killed at their homes, which he didn't bother to mention. Or the hostages, guess that slipped his mind as well.

Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine

 

We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. 

 

Today’s events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison. Israeli officials promise to “open the gates of hell,” and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel’s violence. 

 

The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden. 

 

Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a firm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians.

 

African American Resistance Organization 

Bengali Association of Students at Harvard College

Harvard Arab Medical and Dental Student Association

Harvard Chan Muslim Student Association 

Harvard Chan Students for Health Equity and Justice in Palestine

Harvard College Pakistan Student Association

Harvard Divinity School Muslim Association

Harvard Middle Eastern and North African Law Student Association

Harvard Graduate School of Education Islamic Society

Harvard Graduate Students for Palestine

Harvard Law School Justice for Palestine

Harvard Divinity School Students for Justice in Palestine

Harvard Jews for Liberation

Harvard Kennedy School Bangladesh Caucus

Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Caucus

Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Women’s Caucus 

Harvard Kennedy School Palestine Caucus

Harvard Muslim Law School Association

Harvard Pakistan Forum

Harvard Prison Divest Coalition

Harvard South Asian Law Students Association

Harvard South Asians for Forward-Thinking Advocacy and Research

Harvard TPS Coalition

Harvard Undergraduate Arab Women's Collective

Harvard Undergraduate Ghungroo

Harvard Undergraduate Muslim Women’s Medical Alliance

Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Students Association

Harvard Undergraduate Palestine Solidarity Committee

Middle East and North African Graduate School of Design Student Society

Neighbor Program Cambridge

Sikhs and Companions of Harvard Undergraduates 

Society of Arab Students

 

First, they celebrate the violence against Israeli civilians.

 

Then  when the blowback is imminent, they call for a ceasefire.

 

You know, it's possible to condemn Israeli apartheid AND to condemn intentional  violence against civilians.

2 hours ago, Morch said:

@Jeff the Chef

 

Most Palestinians do not get bombed by the IDF. This almost always is tied with Hamas actions, and is confined to the Gaza Strip. The guy represents the PA, anyway....

Every single Palestinian in Gaza or the West Bank experiences at least one of the following: Daily humiliation at Israeli military checkpoints, economic blockade, confiscation of land, harassment by armed settlers, desecration of their Aqsa Mosque, restrictions on having their own air or sea ports, collective punishment such as demolishing family homes if anyone is involved in any act of resistance, targeting journalists and aid workers, and a shoot-to-kill policy against kids throwing stones at tanks. Let's not forget over 5,000 prisoners, including women and children. All Palestinians are also under occupation. 30 years since the Oslo peace agreement, Israel has not relinquished the occupied Palestinian land or recognized an independent Palestinian state. Instead, they are adding more illegal settlements or expanding the existing ones. To achieve peace, it is essential to end the occupation and treat Palestinians with respect.

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This grouping, comprising

independent militants with apparently no central control, has scant regard for the Palestinian Authority, which governs the West Bank and is led by the octogenarian Mahmoud Abbas. The Palestinian Authority has little real administrative, security or moral authority in the territory.

West Bank Palestinians have no respect for the authority which sold out to israel long ago and IMO is an israeli puppet.

 

I unfortunately caught the end of biden's speech, in which he only promises more death and destruction to Gaza- not a word about fixing the causes of the conflict- nothing about the long discredited Two state solution, sod all about hope for a better future. I suppose he is trying to look tough for the election campaign, but he only comes across as a warmonger. He needs a new scriptwriter.

He even threatened to get americans directly involved.

If ever proof was needed that america is not interested in peace in israel/ Palestine, that speech was it.

5 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

The Channel 4 journalist obviously does not have a monopoly on being crass and inconsiderate.

The Israeli Defence minister is obviously not alone in believing that Gazans are animals.

4 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Every single Palestinian in Gaza or the West Bank experiences at least one of the following: Daily humiliation at Israeli military checkpoints, economic blockade, confiscation of land, harassment by armed settlers, desecration of their Aqsa Mosque, restrictions on having their own air or sea ports, collective punishment such as demolishing family homes if anyone is involved in any act of resistance, targeting journalists and aid workers, and a shoot-to-kill policy against kids throwing stones at tanks. Let's not forget over 5,000 prisoners, including women and children. All Palestinians are also under occupation. 30 years since the Oslo peace agreement, Israel has not relinquished the occupied Palestinian land or recognized an independent Palestinian state. Instead, they are adding more illegal settlements or expanding the existing ones. To achieve peace, it is essential to end the occupation and treat Palestinians with respect.

I agree with everything you said except "restrictions on having their own air or sea ports" as to my knowledge they don't have an airport at all, and they are not allowed to use the port for trade with the outside world.

Far as I know, even the limited amount of imports all have to go through the land entry.

33 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

First, they celebrate the violence against Israeli civilians.

 

Then  when the blowback is imminent, they call for a ceasefire.

 

You know, it's possible to condemn Israeli apartheid AND to condemn intentional  violence against civilians.

To my knowledge, all israelis have to serve in the military except the ultra religious, so if they celebrate violence against israelis it isn't per se against civilians.

However I don't agree with killing children on either side.

32 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

First, they celebrate the violence against Israeli civilians.

 

Then  when the blowback is imminent, they call for a ceasefire.

 

You know, it's possible to condemn Israeli apartheid AND to condemn intentional  violence against civilians.

It's visible in some Hamas footage of the attacks that there are 2 groups within Hamas : one is pure a military (making prisoners) one and another one is more as per Daesh practices (executions).

 

That doesn't mean that you have to implement a collective punishment to 2.300.000 citizens. 

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

It's visible in some Hamas footage of the attacks that there are 2 groups within Hamas : one is pure a military (making prisoners) one and another one is more as per Daesh practices (executions).

 

That doesn't mean that you have to implement a collective punishment to 2.300.000 citizens. 

Agree, but seems biden has just given them free reign to carry out the destruction of Gaza with his warmongering speech where he promises full support for israel and even hints of direct involvement. No calls for restraint at all.

Biden has the blood of children on his hands too, IMO.

5 hours ago, Tug said:

What would you think the correct response from Israel would be to its citizens being raped murdered kidnapped for ransom?all things considered it’s no surprise the retaliation .this is a horrible situation brought on by a horrible history and will have a horrible end .no one wins it’s ugly sad tragic but it’s brought on by the actions of Hamas they and their people are reaping the consequences of their actions.no more no less and so it goes……….

When an alcoholic begins to suffer from liver disease, the best course of action is to quit drinking.

 

When a chain smoker begins to suffer from emphysema the best course of action  is to quit smoking.

 

Israel should quit stealing land and denying the Palestinians a homeland.

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree, but seems biden has just given them free reign to carry out the destruction of Gaza with his warmongering speech where he promises full support for israel and even hints of direct involvement. No calls for restraint at all.

Biden has the blood of children on his hands too, IMO.

There is an election in the US just over the horizon, don’t expect either side, Democrat or Republican, to utter a single word that isn’t 100% supportive of Israel.

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To my knowledge, all israelis have to serve in the military except the ultra religious, so if they celebrate violence against israelis it isn't per se against civilians.

However I don't agree with killing children on either side.

Anti-Israel Activists Celebrate Hamas Attacks that Have Killed Hundreds of Israelis

7 hours ago, RanongCat said:

That is the nature of this murderous escalation that is the result of polarized sectarianism as old as the first stone club used to eliminate a weaker competitor !

Israel will "win" this "war" while provided the military advantage of suppression on potential supporters for the Palestinian revolt but not without a good deal more of blood loss and political status if it proceeds with adopting undeniable genocidal retaliation that has already been defined as war crimes.

Seems to me ludicrous to claim this is a "war", given no Palestinian army was involved, no tanks, no artillery, no aircraft dropping bombs. It was just a few hundred lightly armed fighters that were able to surprise the enemy.

However, I understand the propaganda need for it to be inflated to allow the call up of thousands of reservists and to mobilise the israeli army against a small local conflict.

Seemed that they wanted to use the proverbial sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Now the massed forces are apparently preparing to invade Gaza against an enemy of children and women armed with nothing.

7 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Yep. I condemn both Palestinian and Israeli crimes.

How about you?

Have you the courage to answer?

@Jingthing

 

I see the answer is that you do indeed lack the courage to answer.

????????????

How pathetic.