Government to promote production and use of EVs in Thailand

[billd766]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Coning soon , 300% plus charge on the road tax for your gas guzzler

And how much road tax for an EV?

[Jing Joe]

Well said KhunLA  (MG icon):- "Mind boggling the ignorance of the non EV owners preaching their BS to EV owners. "

 

We didn't choose and MG EV for certain reasons, partly financial, but instead a Japanese E.V. made in U.K of all places. 🙃

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Jing Joe

[EdrigoSalvadore]

Reminds me when I was young and tried to argue with someone who had joined a sect or a pyramid scheme. Impossible to convince them, that they fell for it.

 

'It's Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled'

[KhunLA]

           CONVERT NOW ... YOU EV DEMONS

 

[KhunLA]

31 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And how much road tax for an EV?

MG ZS EV weighs in @ 1547 Kg

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by KhunLA

[eisfeld]

33 minutes ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

Reminds me when I was young and tried to argue with someone who had joined a sect or a pyramid scheme. Impossible to convince them, that they fell for it.

 

'It's Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled'

 

Well if you had better arguments than what you presented here you might have convinced them. A brain fart wont pull people close to you. Comparing EV buyers to sect members or pyramid scheme participants is as valid as as fossil fuels are the future.

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

Check how the electricity in Thailand is produced... From gas and coal (85% in 2022). Pointless to have electric vehicles as long as that's the case.

You do realize that ICE vehicles are responsible for much of the pollution in our cities. 
 

Bangkok was ranked as the world’s 10th-most polluted city on Friday, according to IQAir, a Swiss-based air quality technology company, the recent spike in pollution, even before the peak of the burning season.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-09/thailand-targets-30-electric-car-production-to-tackle-pollution

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Bandersnatch said:

You do realize that ICE vehicles are responsible for much of the pollution in our cities. 

 

Is it ?.... why is it at some times of the year the Air-quality in Bangkok is very good ?....  the vehicle usage doesn't vary throughout the year. 

 

Just now, Bandersnatch said:

Bangkok was ranked as the world’s 10th-most polluted city on Friday, according to IQAir, a Swiss-based air quality technology company, the recent spike in pollution, even before the peak of the burning season.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-09/thailand-targets-30-electric-car-production-to-tackle-pollution

 

From solely an Air-pollution perspective, I believe Bangkok's air quality woes to be caused by much more than ICE vehicles.

It could be argued that IF Thailand were to go 100% EV we would still witness the yearly spike in air pollution which coincides with burning in Thailand and neighbouring countries and cooler (more dense) weather

 

I like EV's and think they are excellent for built up areas. But, I don't think EV's are the solution to cutting down pollution on a global scale, particularly where atmospheric CO2 is concerned where carbon capture technologies could be put to better use.

 

 

[eisfeld]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Is it ?.... why is it at some times of the year the Air-quality in Bangkok is very good ?....  the vehicle usage doesn't vary throughout the year. 

 

 

From solely an Air-pollution perspective, I believe Bangkok's air quality woes to be caused by much more than ICE vehicles.

It could be argued that IF Thailand were to go 100% EV we would still witness the yearly spike in air pollution which coincides with burning in Thailand and neighbouring countries and cooler (more dense) weather

 

I like EV's and think they are excellent for built up areas. But, I don't think EV's are the solution to cutting down pollution on a global scale, particularly where atmospheric CO2 is concerned where carbon capture technologies could be put to better use.

 

 

 

You are correct that ICE vehicles are not the sole reason for the bad air in Bangkok. Field and rubbish burning plus industrial pollution are also big factors. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't tackle the issue of ICE pollution. Every single source of pollution needs to be tackled as far as reasonably doable. Can't always point at some other source to justify not fixing the problem that we can and should fix.

 

I would suggest anyone who doubts the pollution by ICE vehicles to drive the highway from BKK to Korat on a motorbike without visor covering the face and at the end of the trip look at your face with fun black dirt covering parts of it. People might think you work in a coal mine.

[Bandersnatch]

56 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

why is it at some times of the year the Air-quality in Bangkok is very good

I lived in Bangkok for 5 years and never considered the air quality “very good” 

. 

[ujayujay]

8 hours ago, sidneybear said:

I so appreciate my trusty internal combustion engine. It takes 5 minutes to refuel (including time to have a leak and buy some snacks). I'm good for another 700 km and never have this fretful look on my face that EV drivers do, when their batteries are going flat in the middle of nowhere, because the last charging station wasn't working or had hours long queues.

 

EVs are like 3D televisions: a once in a generation fad that doesn't work and is a pain in the backside to use.

What's your problem....OK, you don't like EVs. That's why you don't have to tire the readers here with your conspiratorial theories...find a clever hobby...for example collecting stamps or counting peas

[observer90210]

The chinese never really made it into our pockets via the smartphones in the global gsm market.

 

But they definately will enter our lives fully in their highly connected EV cars offered to the world at crashed prices. For the best or the worst.

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

17 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

Also has anyone considered the following:

2. The batteries require rare earth materials for their production. Maybe no one has heard but they are called "rare" for a reason.

 

Gave up waiting for you to support this statement.

 

They were used in the nickel-metal hydride batteries used by early hybrids, but rare earths are not used in lithium ion batteries.

 

'rare-earth' is a misnomer because they are not actually scarce, although historically it took a long time to isolate these elements.

rare-earth elements are technically relatively plentiful in the entire Earth's crust (cerium being the 25th-most-abundant element at 68 parts per million, more abundant than copper

Ce and La are important as catalysts, and are used for petroleum refining and as diesel additives

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element

 

 

The moral here is to check what you write before you write it or get called out on it. 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[Henryford]

Bandersnatch - those photos of cars charging on the street are a joke. In London those cables would be stolen the first night.

[Bandersnatch]

Just now, Henryford said:

Bandersnatch - those photos of cars charging on the street are a joke. In London those cables would be stolen the first night.

 

 

Can't talk for all EVs but for mine the charging port locks during charging. 

[VincentRJ]

I should begin by stating that I am not convinced that reducing CO2 emission will have any net benefit for the environment. CO2 is the 'gas of life' and the increased quantities in the atmosphere, due to human emissions, have helped to green the planet and increase crop production. In general, warmer climates are better than colder climates, for humanity to flourish, provided there is a sufficient supply of water.

 

However, I'm objective enough to appreciate the benefits of electric vehicles, regardless of climate change issues. My understanding is that BEVs are far more efficient devices than ICE vehicles. If all the petrol used in domestic ICE vehicles were used instead to produce electricity from a large generator connected to the grid, the amount of electricity produced would be far greater than that required to fuel the same number of BEVs driving the same number of kilometres.

 

BEVs are also less expensive to service, excluding the rare accidents that damage the batteries. The way forward is to use our energy supplies more efficiently.

 

The following article addresses the efficiency issue, but it also assumes that CO2 emissions are a problem, so maybe the site is not complerely reliable. 😉

https://www.energycouncil.com.au/analysis/evs-are-they-really-more-efficient/

 

“recent studies that include the complete life cycle of different types of vehicles, as well as their well to wheel data have revealed that even with fossil fuel-based electricity generation and power losses during transmission from electricity generation to filling the battery, electric cars were found to have lower levels of greenhouse gas production … even on the coal rich Australian grid, EVs produce 40 per cent less GHG when compared with equivalent ICE vehicles. In fact, their well to wheel calculations show that to drive 1km in an average petrol vehicle uses 1.36kWh/km while the average figure for electric cars is just 0.28kWh/km – an energy use figure close to five times less than for petrol cars.”

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

I am not convinced that reducing CO2 emission will have any net benefit for the environment. CO2 is the 'gas of life' and the increased quantities in the atmosphere, due to human emissions, have helped to green the planet and increase crop production. In general, warmer climates are better than colder climates, for humanity to flourish, provided there is a sufficient supply of water.

 

Without the CO2 driven greenhouse effect this planet would be a lifeless ball of ice.

 

"warmer climates are better than colder climates"

but you can have too much of a good thing 40 ° C in the UK like we had this year is a challenge with houses designed temperate conditions. What will Thailand be like when 50 ° C is the norm?

 

US sets new record for billion-dollar climate disasters in single year

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/11/us-record-billion-dollar-climate-disasters

 

 

 

 

[VincentRJ]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Without the CO2 driven greenhouse effect this planet would be a lifeless ball of ice.

 

"warmer climates are better than colder climates"

but you can have too much of a good thing 40 ° C in the UK like we had this year is a challenge with houses designed temperate conditions. What will Thailand be like when 50 ° C is the norm?

 

US sets new record for billion-dollar climate disasters in single year

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/11/us-record-billion-dollar-climate-disasters

 

 

 

 

 

Those record temperatures were in cities, urban areas, and close to airports, where the Urban Heat Island (UHI} effect causes higher temperatures that sometimes break previous records in the same location when there was less development, that is, less concrete structures, pavements, and black asphalt roads absorbing lots of heat.

 

Likewise, measuring the severity of extreme weather events by estimating the cost of the damage to human infrastructure and homes, is nonsense. As the population expands, more houses tend to be built in flood plains. A current riverine flood might be the same height is was 50 years ago, yet there are probably 4 times more houses built in the vicinity of the previous floods, resulting in a record cost of damages.

 

Nevertheless, pretending that reducing human CO2 emissions can make the climate benign, which it never was, is a great religious/political idea to motivate the development of new and better sources of energy. Not only is CO2 essential for all life, affordable and reliable supplies of energy are essential for modern civilizations to flourish.

 

The development of the electric vehicle is a poitive outcome of this 'climate alarmism' propaganda.
 

[Jing Joe]

HenryFord said:- - "those photos of cars charging on the street are a joke. In London those cables would be stolen the first night. "

 

Sooo many ignorant bystanders are a joke and continue to offer ill advice and opinions.!!! 

The charging port plugs are locked as Bandersnatch says. 

Regardless, who would be brave enough to cut the live cable even to steal the few metres of copper wire? because thats all they would get, if they survived.

 

 

[VincentRJ]

For those who are in denial about the advantages of the electric vehicle, following is an informative article about the benefits.

 

"According to the Department of Energy (DOE), in an EV, about 59-62 percent of the electrical energy from the grid goes to turning the wheels, whereas gas combustion vehicles only convert about 17-21 percent of energy from burning fuel into moving the car. This means that an electric vehicle is roughly three times as efficient as an ICE vehicle. Needing less energy to power your car also helps bring down the cost."

 

https://www.nrdc.org/bio/madhur-boloor/electric-vehicle-basics#:~:text=This means that an electric,helps bring down the cost

 

[Eric Loh]

The transition to EV cars is inevitable and soon will be a regular way of life although most of us will unlikely to see the complete elimination of petrol/diesel cars in our lifetime. Many countries  have ICE bans in place. Thailand looking into 50% new car registration for EV by 2035 and 100% by 2040. Really not a question of why but when. Stockholm has the distinction of being the first city to ban ICE vehicles soon. 
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/01/02/31-countries-states-and-cities-have-ice-bans-in-place/

[Jing Joe]

Eric Loh just wrote:- "The transition to EV cars is inevitable and soon will be a regular way of life" etc

Oh yes! so turn back the hands of time when the first rail steam engine that "breathed fire" was so badly thought of in so many ways.   History repeating its self??

Then later wasn't the first speed record in an E.V. not an I.C.E. ?

And VincentRJ just authoritively quoted:- "I.C.E. vehicles convert about 17-21 percent of energy  to moving it  etc",     so think about the 80c per $ wasted mostly in heat.

C'mon people, think of solutions instead of unfounded unproductive negativity and realize Eric's "inevitability" above wont evolve from your present thinking.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Jing Joe
correction

[eisfeld]

Every technological advancement has been met by people who oppose any change. No matter how many positive aspects the new development has. It can even save the life of those people, they will stoll oppose it because reasons. You can discuss the benefits forever with them, they wont change their mind. They are close minded and take the temporary downsides of the new stuff as if no further improvements would come. Happened with the invention of the car. Happened with the invention of the airplane. Gene therapies and numerous other modern medical inventions. The internet. Mobile phones.... it goes on and on and on.

 

In the beginning those people are numerous but over time as new technologies get adopted and people get to experience the benefits themselves they get fewer and fewer. Some never change their mind but their generation eventually dies off. Then we'll have left only a few fringe weirdos but those can be mostly ignored. The new generations then are left to wonder "what were they thinking back then?". It's always the same game.

[Jing Joe]

Oh YES, YES and YES Eisfeld, so well put.  and of course YES... the   heavier-than-air   planes. 

Where have historically all the detractors gone? long time ago? and now re E.Vs? long time passing. 😝 when will they ever learn?

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Jing Joe
add

[Gknrd]

I see it as a good move by China. Nothing more. 

China is moving allot of the big manufacturing out of China.

Question is can China make the transition from manufacturing based economy to consumer based. 

The US made the transition years ago. At the cost of manufacturing jobs. China is trying to do the same. 

Japan did it yeas ago. Lots of economists are looking at the Japan model and comparing it to China. 

The 24 trillion dollar question is whether China can do it. If they can then Thailand is in like flint.. If not Thailand will be flipping sides again if they can.  

Most think the days of flip flopping and riding the fence is over. The US and it allies are taking the stance, are you in or are you out. Thailand is clearly not in, that has been apparent for years. So, for Thailands sake lets hope China can make the transition.

 

Luckily politics are pretty easy to read. Now it's just wait and see. 

 

Since this is mainly an expat site, I would say this is the worst thing that could happen for western expats. If China starts gaining ground then the purge will continue to increase to point where it is basically like China. If China fails then it will be the westerner's fault and the purge will continue.

IMHO, I don't see a Rosie outcome for western expats. No matter how it turns out. 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Gknrd

[sidneybear]

On 10/24/2023 at 3:23 AM, ujayujay said:

What's your problem....OK, you don't like EVs. That's why you don't have to tire the readers here with your conspiratorial theories...find a clever hobby...for example collecting stamps or counting peas

 

1) In this thread, we're having a debate about the feasibility of EVs in Thailand.

2) I drew attention to problems with charging them - the time queuing at charging stations around the world.

3) A user rudely took issue with my point, and claimed that he is getting all the power he needs from the sun alone to drive his EV.

4) I am questioning his claims as not telling the full story, and asserting that he would still need to queue at charging stations to drive reasonable distances

 

Now, if the content of the thread is beyond your understanding, please jog to another thread where you might be able to contribute something useful to the discussion.

Edited October 25, 2023 by sidneybear

[sidneybear]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:31 PM, eisfeld said:

 

I'm pretty sure you could answer your own question. If you want a very rough assumption then take about 5h of peak output. He has a 20kWp installation so you could calculate with very rough 100kWh. His car goes 6km per kWh which btw doesn't mean it's very light. It's a very standard consumption. I opened the BMW website and picked a random electric sedan, the i4 with 400Nm torque and 286HP and it consumes just a little bit more than Bandersnatches car does. Back to the solar. At 100kWh production and 6km per kWh that gets you 600km on a day of solar. Maybe people in the australian outback commute 600km daily but normal people dont.

 

But if you look at the graph the poster provided, his '20kW' panels deliver a peak output of just 2.5 kW, which is why I asked him how many kWh per day they produce. You might want to revisit your calculations there.

[sidneybear]

On 10/23/2023 at 8:46 PM, Bandersnatch said:

every question you ask further demonstrates your ignorance of solar. Go back and look at the graph I posted previously and come back when you understand the meaning of the term curtailment.

 

 

You have demonstrated that you can’t manage simple arithmetic. 

All I'm asking for is the total kWh par day your panels are generating, and delivering to your car's batteries, after your domestic consumption is deducted from their output.  

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Those record temperatures were in cities, urban areas, and close to airports, where the Urban Heat Island (UHI} effect causes higher temperatures that sometimes break previous records in the same location when there was less development, that is, less concrete structures, pavements, and black asphalt roads absorbing lots of heat.

Good point.. problems of our own making and development made without thought. I think of Pattaya, getting  unbearable in an early evening in April, masses of concrete pouring out the heat absorbed all day, no open spaces nor greenery to alleviate it.  

[redwood1]

Let me make this simple..

 

EV buyers are brain washed sheep..

ICE buyers have cool and smart transport...

Case closed..