Change in the tax law does target expats living in Thailand and extends reporting obligations

[BE88]

51 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

As someone mentioned, not spending more than 179 days a year in any one country. (There are pros and cons, of course.)

 

It is very funny that all countries accept these 179 days to not file the tax declaration, well this is due thanks to the rich globalist elite who do not pay taxes in any country and therefore have pushed and obtained that there is this general international rule. And this is the reason they generally have more villas in different parts of the world.

 

So we poor globalists can use it to our profit and reside in a minimum of three countries per year simply by renting, extending our holidays in pleasant places to discover where we can live with many advantages.

 

[Jeffrey346]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I think it's too early to confirm that nothing will change, indeed some things almost certainly will. For example, income earned overseas from renting out immovable property, will be taxable in Thailand, when it is imported, subject to DTA rules which will vary from country to country.

What I meant was, if you are not subject to tax now based on your countries agreement with Thailand, you won't have any additional taxes here.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Jeffrey346 said:

What I meant was, if you are not subject to tax now based on your countries agreement with Thailand, you won't have any additional taxes here.

The one big change that has been made is that previously, income earned overseas but imported into Thailand in a different year from which it was earned, was not taxable. Now, that income is taxable, regardless of the year the funds are imported. Whether or not the DTA between the two countries will negate that tax, remains unclear, it appears that in some cases it may not.

[Jeffrey346]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

The one big change that has been made is that previously, income earned overseas but imported into Thailand in a different year from which it was earned, was not taxable. Now, that income is taxable, regardless of the year the funds are imported. Whether or not the DTA between the two countries will negate that tax, remains unclear, it appears that in some cases it may not.

You are correct. My wife's opinion is those who are deferring income to the next calander year will pay taxes on those funds brought into Thailand.

Those who are not have nothing to worry about

[Karma80]

33 minutes ago, JimboB4 said:

They’re talking about permanent residence. They are talking about foreign investment income. This doesn’t affect any foreigner living here which they of course don’t specify. 

 

That's not true. Tax residency is residency as far as the RD is concerned. They do not consider your immigration status.  

 

[mikebell]

10 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

You are blowing this out of proportion.   It's not going to happen

10 years ago my then-wife was extorted by a Sattahip cop who threatened to make my next-year's visa 'difficult'.  He took 15K from her.

[Jeffrey346]

1 minute ago, mikebell said:

10 years ago my then-wife was extorted by a Sattahip cop who threatened to make my next-year's visa 'difficult'.  He took 15K from her.

What does that have to do with the new Tax Laws

[topt]

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The one big change that has been made is that previously, income earned overseas but imported into Thailand in a different year from which it was earned, was not taxable. Now, that income is taxable, regardless of the year the funds are imported. Whether or not the DTA between the two countries will negate that tax, remains unclear, it appears that in some cases it may not.

 

10 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

What I meant was, if you are not subject to tax now based on your countries agreement with Thailand, you won't have any additional taxes here.

I unfortunately would. If you are for example non resident for tax in UK but have income from "elsewhere" that isn't currently being taxed then........ 

[andre47]

My understanding is that money that I earned and paid tax on before I became taxable in Thailand can be brought to Thailand tax-free. 

[jacob29]

5 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

no one wants to pay extra taxes on money that's already been taxed, nor have to report and prove that it was already taxed. 

We can infer there's external pressure from EU and US on this, so it stands to reason it will be implemented similar to how it would work in EU countries. Which means it's not demanding tax on already taxed income, but income earned **while** you're a resident. With the benefit of only taxing what you bring in (instead of just taxing worldwide income, which is what every other country seems to do)

 

4 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This situation begs the question as to why Thailand insists on inventing the wheel all over again... 

They're almost certainly not, I would bet money it's going to borrow heavily from what most other countries do already. Most countries tax worldwide income regardless of whether you repatriate it, making it more favorable than basically every comparable country in the region (e.g. Vietnam or Indonesia, Singapore is not comparable).

[Hockeybik]

The typical ready, FIRE! ...aim, mentality of most "schemes" coming from Thai bureaucrats. Oh look... rich farang, take his money... oh wait rich farang, don't leave!

[jerrymahoney]

34 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I didn't say that..  BKK may have 50+. Smaller provinces less

You said: They will enforce it. In fact, the Revenue Department is in the process of hiring 70 Lawyers.. One in each province to assure tax collection.

 

[Jeffrey346]

Just now, jerrymahoney said:

You said: They will enforce it. In fact, the Revenue Department is in the process of hiring 70 Lawyers.. One in each province to assure tax collection.

 

Do expect them not to enforce it. The RD will be going after all those who are not paying their taxes. Thai Nationals included.

[4MyEgo]

 

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

Do expect them not to enforce it. The RD will be going after all those who are not paying their taxes. Thai Nationals included.

OK. I have said the other mega-topic that -- as of deductions available today -- I might only have to pay about $100 per month in taxes and, due to the US-Thai DTA Article 20,  I might end up owing zero Thai taxes.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Knowing Thailand, it's very likely to take effect, then be reversed almost immediately when they realize they can't enforce it (not to mention the legal challenges to come). Trying to actually enforce this will result in a mass exodus of expats and huge amounts of money - no one wants to pay extra taxes on money that's already been taxed, nor have to report and prove that it was already taxed. And that's the real question: if and how are they going to enforce it? will all tax residents have to report? As usual big confusion and zero clarity.

 

At least 3 items that are missing from these discussions / comments:

 

- Are basic offshore state pensions subject to Thai personal tax?
- What's the threshold income amount which requires annual reporting and possibly payment of Thai personal tax on offshore state pensions received into Thailand?

- Does a double tax agreement with the country of origin of the pension have any affect (realizing of course that the laws of the sending country cannot be imposed by or on the Thai legal system/processes)?

[lordgrinz]

37 minutes ago, mikebell said:

AKA Police.

 

Yes, just the kind of people you want perusing your sensitive financial information, just before they recycle those tax documents into scrap paper for everyone else to see as well. Who in their right mind would share any foreign financial information with Thai authorities?!

[Jeffrey346]

Just now, lordgrinz said:

 

Yes, just the kind of people you want perusing your sensitive financial information, just before they recycle those tax documents into scrap paper for everyone else to see as well. Who in their right mind would share any foreign financial information with Thai authorities?!

It's done everyday to extend Visa"s. Your blowing it out of proportion. 

[ChaiyaTH]

4 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

I believe most people here are safe - for now.

 

"At the time of writing, Thailand has concluded 61 double tax agreements with countries worldwide.

Armenia	Hungary	Poland
Australia	India	Romania
Austria	Indonesia	Russia
Bahrain	Israel	Seychelles
Bangladesh	Italy	Singapore
Belarus	Japan	Slovenia
Belgium	Korea	South Africa
Bulgaria	Kuwait	Spain
Cambodia	Laos	Sri Lanka
Canada	Luxembourg	Sweden
Chile	Malaysia	Switzerland
China	Mauritius	Taipei
Cyprus	Myanmar	Tajikistan
Czech Republic	Nepal	Turkey
Denmark	Netherlands	Ukraine
Estonia	New Zealand	United Arab Emirates
Finland	Norway	United States of America
Germany	Oman	Uzbekistan
Great Britain and Northern Ireland	Pakistan	Vietnam
Hong Kong	Philippines"

 

https://www.belaws.com/thailand/double-tax-agreements/

How often do people need to repeat and explain that that is not true at all. Not everyone is a  idiot to be paying tax in general. It is a issue for anyone who lives offshore, no matter what your list shows. Why do you think this guy is even speaking up in the first place, because his concerns of those poor countries that are not in the DTA? Wake up man.

Edited November 6, 2023 by ChaiyaTH

[lordgrinz]

Just now, Jeffrey346 said:

It's done everyday to extend Visa"s. Your blowing it out of proportion. 

I've done 7 years of marriage extensions, and never given them foreign financial information.

[ChaiyaTH]

11 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Good news from a baby boomer american? I don't think so, that guy speaks so much nonsense.

[Jeffrey346]

Just now, lordgrinz said:

I've done 7 years of marriage extensions, and never given them foreign financial information.

You never gave them required proof of income?

[lordgrinz]

2 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

You never gave them required proof of income?

 

Nope, just keep B400,000 in a bank here, the first few years just an affidavit from my Embassy.

Edited November 6, 2023 by lordgrinz

[JCauto]

6 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Just like allot of other counties.. 180 days.

 

Not so simple as that. If you don't live in any individual country for 180 days, then it's basically up to the interpretation of the Tax Officials who have come across you to determine your residency. Those people have a strong interest in determining Thailand to be your primary residence, and thereby taxing you accordingly. Same would happen in other countries too.

[Jeffrey346]

Just now, lordgrinz said:

 

Nope, just keep B400,000 in a bank here, the first few years just a affidavit from my Embassy.

Well your choice. IMO, I will never keep any large amount of $$$ here when I can get  interest back home

[proton]

what would stop you bringing in $20k in cash once a year and then say you are living off the wifes income? I'd rather spend on an airfare than give these leeches tax.

Edited November 6, 2023 by proton

[jerrymahoney]

17 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

19 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

It's done everyday to extend Visa"s. Your blowing it out of proportion. 

I've done 7 years of marriage extensions, and never given them foreign financial information.

I have been asked to provide a "source of Income" letter along with the Thai Bank proof of 12 FTT deposits for extension via retirement.

 

No big deal.

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

I think the bottom line here is that I am not willing to fill out any tax papers or share any sensitive financial information from foreign accounts with any Thai government agency, would rather just leave first. I would bet many others would agree, if that's what they want, so be it.

 

Just as well that they are not asking, nor has it even been suggested that they will be asking for, or demanding information about foreign bank accounts.

 

' Rumour, innuendo and lies get halfway round the world before truth gets its knickers on '

 

Don't book a seat on the escape plane just yet.

[JimboB4]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

It's pretty much universal tax law that anyone who lives in a country for more than 180 days in a single tax year, is considered to be "tax resident" or "resident for tax purposes", in that country, end of story.

That’s not true they can’t tax income from overseas being deposited into a bank account I’ve already verified this 

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, JimboB4 said:

A “resident” for tax purposes definitely doesn’t affect anyone here more than 180 days. If you’re on a marriage visa, retirement visa or whatever that is not for tax purposes and is definitely not a resident. 

Wrong.

 

Immigration resident and tax resident are two different kinds of residence, same the world over.