My EV can power my home

[GroveHillWanderer]

10 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Hi Grove Hill. Thanks for those comments.

 

FWIW I always FILL my ICE to the brim each time.

 

Can you quickly tell me which battery technology powered the first EV's, also the Tesla, what is the 'new' battery technology being used increasingly now and what is mostly used in Chinese EV's ?

 

I've seen a lot about new battery technology but it seems a way down the line - e.g. Toyota's project.

 

Is the now 'new' technology you refer to, a tweak of the same?

 

Would this 'new' technology in use have a different level of risk re. the rare but intense fires?

 

You can see I'm not up on the subject myself but eager to know.

 

If you have the time. ATB

I think much of this was already addressed in earlier posts, but here goes.

 

The older technology that powered earlier Teslas (and other brands) was Lithium-ion - also called Lithium-ion NMC. The newer technology that both Tesla and others are already using on more and more models are LFP (lithium iron phosphate, aka LiFePO 4) batteries. And this is not in the future, this is now.

 

They are a different technology, but whether you would call them merely a tweak of Li-ion batteries would somewhat depend on your definition of the word.

 

Not only can LFP batteries be charged to 100% as often as you want without detriment, they are indeed, much less likely to catch fire.

 

If an LFP battery were to catch fire, the issues surrounding extinguishing them would be slightly different, as they require a class D fire extinguisher as opposed to class A, B or C for Lithium-ion batteries.

 

However, current EV's are already 11-80 times less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles and those with LFP batteries will be even less of a risk, since they are much, much harder to ignite in any normal circumstances, such as in a collision or as a result of thermal runaway.

 

I believe someone already posted, not too long ago on the thread, the video of an LFP battery having a nail driven into it with no hint of a fire breaking out.

 

The Risks of Lithium-ion vs LFP

 

I couldn't tell you what is "mostly" used in Chinese EV's but again, more and more of them use LFP batteries - the MG4 does for instance, as mentioned by @Bandersnatchabove. As do various new Tesla models.

 

You're right that there are other technologies still being developed but LFP batteries are already here.

[Andrew Dwyer]

6 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I think much of this was already addressed in earlier posts, but here goes.

 

The older technology that powered earlier Teslas (and other brands) was Lithium-ion - also called Lithium-ion NMC. The newer technology that both Tesla and others are already using on more and more models are LFP (lithium iron phosphate, aka LiFePO 4) batteries. And this is not in the future, this is now.

 

They are a different technology, but whether you would call them merely a tweak of Li-ion batteries would somewhat depend on your definition of the word.

 

Not only can LFP batteries be charged to 100% as often as you want without detriment, they are indeed, much less likely to catch fire.

 

If an LFP battery were to catch fire, the issues surrounding extinguishing them would be slightly different, as they require a class D fire extinguisher as opposed to class A, B or C for Lithium-ion batteries.

 

However, current EV's are already 11-80 times less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles and those with LFP batteries will be even less of a risk, since they are much, much harder to ignite in any normal circumstances, such as in a collision or as a result of thermal runaway.

 

I believe someone already posted, not too long ago on the thread, the video of an LFP battery having a nail driven into it with no hint of a fire breaking out.

 

The Risks of Lithium-ion vs LFP

 

I couldn't tell you what is "mostly" used in Chinese EV's but again, more and more of them use LFP batteries - the MG4 does for instance, as mentioned by @Bandersnatchabove. As do various new Tesla models.

 

You're right that there are other technologies still being developed but LFP batteries are already here.

Just to add :

Byd manufacture and use LFP batteries solely in their ev’s , their batteries are also used in other ev’s due to their safety aspect.

NMC batteries ( Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt ) are another common alternative.

NMC have a better energy density than LFP in that they are lighter and smaller but LFP have many more energy cycles and therefore a longer life.

Both NMC and LFP react differently in hot and cold climates, it is always somewhat of a compromise but LFP deal with the heat better and therefore are more prevalent here in Thailand.

BYD continues to search for the ideal battery configuration and currently uses a sodium-ion ( Na-ion ) battery in its Seagull EV but currently only in China. They are also studying the use of LMFP ( Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate ) batteries which appear to have a higher energy density while retaining the cost and efficiency of LFP.

[Bandersnatch]

On 11/25/2023 at 6:16 AM, TorquayFan said:

I always FILL my ICE to the brim each time

 

I hope you don’t plan to run your ICE car down to empty as the tank has all sorts or nasty gunk at the bottom that can ruin your engine. 

 

ICE car owners are kidding themselves when they look at their range indicator because the figure assumes running the tank down to empty which is a stupid idea.

 

As I’ve mentioned before, EVs range is based on “usable range” Battery capacity is quoted net and not gross, even at 0% battery the battery isn’t empty, ICE cars are not that sophisticated.

 

Electrons don’t go bad, but fuel does. Modern fuel contains Ethanol that can cause storage problems, water problems, and engine problems over time due to the corrosive nature of the fuel. It can degrade rubber and plastic parts in engines and fuel lines, leading to costly repairs.

 

Ethanol based fuel has a short shelf life lasting only up to three months, less in hot and humid conditions. Unlike pure gasoline, ethanol-based fuel easily absorbs moisture, which can lead to contamination.

 

Ethanol increases gasoline vapor pressure leading to fuel starvation, this issue is particularly bad in hot weather.

 

If you live in a hot humid country like Thailand you are better off driving an EV, particularly as ICEs are so inefficient, only 30% of the input energy moves the vehicle the remaining 70% is heat and noise.

 

 

 

Let’s face it “Suck Squeeze Bang Blow” just sucks

 

[Bandersnatch]

In an vain attempt to get this discussion back on topic:

 

Little update on using my BYD Seal to power my house.

 

Normally I prioritise my house batteries, so only when they are fully charged do I start to charge my EVs, but V2L has given me more energy security. So at 09:54 yesterday I plugged in my Seal with the aim of getting the LFPs to 100%

 

 

2 hours and 21 minutes later I checked and the water cat was fully charged. Car unplugged I waited for the house batteries to start charging, but almost straight away it clouded over and threatened to rain. There was enough power through the clouds to run the house, but not to recharge the house batteries at the same time.

 

At 6pm it started to get dark so I plugged in V2L and powered the house until 9:36pm at which point the house was shut down for the night on minimum load and there was sufficient power in the house batteries to see me through to morning. 
 

 

 

In the morning I charged the house batteries to 80% then plugged in the seal

 

[beautifulthailand99]

If you are regularly using your EV battery for non-motoring purposes surely this will degrade the longevity of the battery and be a hidden but real cost. Do you have any handle on what that could be?

[GroveHillWanderer]

A question for those more in the know than me (I know little to nothing about electrical power systems, or the requirements and considerations for EV wall chargers).

 

My Thai nephew has just bought an MG4 on finance. He is apparently planning to make the repayments mainly by operating as a Grab taxi driver - he also has/had a pool cleaning business but I'm not sure if he's going to continue doing both (it would seem a little tricky to do so).

 

Anyway, he's talking about installing the free wall charger that he says was included in the deal at his parents home in Surin province, on the basis that there aren't many charging stations nearby. Although there's one just 17 km away and another two roughly 40 km distant.

 

Now, he does go up there surprisingly frequently (maybe 10 times or so a year) and often spends four to five days there. However, wouldn't it still make more sense, economically speaking to have the wall charger installed at his home in Hua Hin where it would get a lot more use?

 

Also, would the power supply at his parents' house, which is a small rural dwelling with only one major appliance (a refrigerator) be likely to be suitable for a wall charger?

[JBChiangRai]

30 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

A question for those more in the know than me (I know little to nothing about electrical power systems, or the requirements and considerations for EV wall chargers).

 

My Thai nephew has just bought an MG4 on finance. He is apparently planning to make the repayments mainly by operating as a Grab taxi driver - he also has/had a pool cleaning business but I'm not sure if he's going to continue doing both (it would seem a little tricky to do so).

 

Anyway, he's talking about installing the free wall charger that he says was included in the deal at his parents home in Surin province, on the basis that there aren't many charging stations nearby. Although there's one just 17 km away and another two roughly 40 km distant.

 

Now, he does go up there surprisingly frequently (maybe 10 times or so a year) and often spends four to five days there. However, wouldn't it still make more sense, economically speaking to have the wall charger installed at his home in Hua Hin where it would get a lot more use?

 

Also, would the power supply at his parents' house, which is a small rural dwelling with only one major appliance (a refrigerator) be likely to be suitable for a wall charger?

 

 

He would be better using the supplied Granny Charger at his parents home, if they are on a weak PEA supply, that Granny unit will be fine and should charge the car over one or 2 nights.

 

He should fit the supplied wall charger at his own home if he can.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

He would be better using the supplied Granny Charger at his parents home, if they are on a weak PEA supply, that Granny unit will be fine and should charge the car over one or 2 nights.

 

He should fit the supplied wall charger at his own home if he can.

That's what I thought, but he seems to think different. I also asked him if he would charge his vehicle using the granny charger at his home if he installs the wall charger up in Surin and he said no, it takes too long and he would just charge at commercial charging stations. Again, if he's using the car as a Grab taxi and trying to minimize his running costs, that doesn't seem like the best way to go.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

That's what I thought, but he seems to think different. I also asked him if he would charge his vehicle using the granny charger at his home if he installs the wall charger up in Surin and he said no, it takes too long and he would just charge at commercial charging stations. Again, if he's using the car as a Grab taxi and trying to minimize his running costs, that doesn't seem like the best way to go.

 

But then what do I know, I'm only a crazy farang, after all.

 

I worry that the supply at his parent's house will be strong enough for a 7Kw wall charger.  It's not strong enough at my house unless the sun is shining.

 

He would be better with a switchable charger, I just gave away one that is switchable between 10 amps, 16 amps, 24 amps and 32 amps.  I run mine at 10amps if charging overnight and 24 amps during the day.

 

You can change the charging rate on the MG4 infotainment system so a wallbox at his parents would work, but, thinking about it, MG's subcontractors won't install the wallbox if the supply is not good enough.

[macahoom]

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

He would be better with a switchable charger, I just gave away one that is switchable between 10 amps, 16 amps, 24 amps and 32 amps. 

 

Wow! You must be a very fine gentleman to know!

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

Wow! You must be a very fine gentleman to know!

 

I'm trying to make up for a misspent youth

[Bandersnatch]

19 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

If you are regularly using your EV battery for non-motoring purposes surely this will degrade the longevity of the battery and be a hidden but real cost. Do you have any handle on what that could be?

 

Did you watch the video in my opening post?

 

If you did, you would have seen that I have solar and 4 home batteries, I am using the car in an occasional supporting role.

 

My EV's 82.5kWh battery is equivalent to 6 Tesla PowerWalls. It is designed to propel a 2 tonne vehicle plus occupants 600km per charge. By comparison my house load at night is 500W or 0.5kWh per hour. So the car could power my house at night for 165 hours of night-time usage.

 

In my post yesterday I used the car to run the house during the evening, when the house load is higher but it only used 3% of the battery or 21km of driving range (the battery is warranted for 160,000km)

 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

@Bandersnatch

I wanted to do the same with my Dolphin. I have a solar installation but without batteries. It uses a Huawei inverter (system installed “professionally”). 
 

I had a manual switch selector installed that was meant to switch between the grid and my car battery. However each time my electrician tried to hook up the car battery to one of my lighting circuits, the battery would shut down. The circuit is on a 32 A fuse but my electrician bypasses the circuit breaker for testing purposes so it should have been an isolated circuit on its own.

 

What I noticed also is that is too much power is drawn at the start, say for eg trying to start up an appliance of over 2 kWh, the car battery would also shut down. I presume this is a battery protection feature which is fine but surely a lighting circuit would not be drawing this much power.

 

Any ideas or suggestions? 

[Bandersnatch]

20 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

@Bandersnatch

I wanted to do the same with my Dolphin. I have a solar installation but without batteries. It uses a Huawei inverter (system installed “professionally”). 
 

I had a manual switch selector installed that was meant to switch between the grid and my car battery. However each time my electrician tried to hook up the car battery to one of my lighting circuits, the battery would shut down. The circuit is on a 32 A fuse but my electrician bypasses the circuit breaker for testing purposes so it should have been an isolated circuit on its own.

 

What I noticed also is that is too much power is drawn at the start, say for eg trying to start up an appliance of over 2 kWh, the car battery would also shut down. I presume this is a battery protection feature which is fine but surely a lighting circuit would not be drawing this much power.

 

Any ideas or suggestions? 

 

Did you watch my original video on V2L in my open post?

 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Did you watch my original video on V2L in my open post?

 

 

 

Yes, but I can’t figure out how to hook it up to my consumer unit. My electrician mentioned also that the manual selector switch can’t support the required wire gauge to bypass the mains electricity (meaning I might need a bigger switch?)

[Bandersnatch]

Just now, Gweiloman said:

Yes, but I can’t figure out how to hook it up to my consumer unit. My electrician mentioned also that the manual selector switch can’t support the required wire gauge to bypass the mains electricity (meaning I might need a bigger switch?)

 

How does solar currently power your house?

 

In my setup all power goes via my inverters: PV, Battery, PEA (now disconnected) and V2L. The inverters  - acting in parallel - then send AC to my consumer unit.  

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

How does solar currently power your house?

 

In my setup all power goes via my inverters: PV, Battery, PEA (now disconnected) and V2L. The inverters  - acting in parallel - then send AC to my consumer unit.  

I see. I’m not sure how my setup is but I think it might be different.

SOLA on my consumer unit is solar.

 

The little box to the right is where my manual selector switch is.

 

[Bandersnatch]

4 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I’m not sure how my setup is but I think it might be different.

SOLA on my consumer unit is solar.

 

The little box to the right is where my manual selector switch is.

 

I understand now. 

 

It looks like your solar only powers a backup circuit in your house. It is acting like a UPS for that circuit for when the grid is down.

 

This is quite common for smaller solar systems.

 

Can ask the specs of your solar system? 

 

PV kW

Inverter kW