Thailand ranks bottom of the pile with ASEAN English score

[Paris333]

The English language is in the Latin alphabet and it is logical that Thais find it difficult to learn it like all Westerners.Do you know Thai? Do you know Chinese? Do you know Vietnamese? Do you know Cambodian? No! Why? Because it's in another alphabet of non-Latin origin. Russians as well as Arab "businessmen" (ha-ha-xha)have settled in Thailand .....

Edited November 28, 2023 by Paris333

[Shocked farang]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:59 AM, ikke1959 said:

Surprise, surprise, with unmotivated students because they always pass, non English speaking English Thai teachers.. as my boss was a master in English but could not conversate with me,  English camps in Thai Language and a Government that only speaks of important to learn English, but nowhere in Thailand you can find an English movie on TV, and everything should be in Thai..... A bit of big change is needed... Maybe the former backpackers were better to teach than the average level of a Thai English teacher... 

Well, I don't know what experience you have with Backpackers but I need to tell you that there are some really educated and qualified people among them. 

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I would expect that a basic requirement for any Immigration Officer in any country would be fluency in the international language.

That would be over qualified for someone only expected to give you a dirty look, grunt and stamp a passport!

[ikke1959]

20 hours ago, CM Dad said:

I sincerely hope you were not a teacher of English!  "Conversate?"  The verb you need is converse.  In addition, of is a preposition and needs to be followed by an object - either a noun or a possessive pronoun.  The noun needed in your sentence is importance.  Important is not a noun, it is an adjective.

The primary problems of English language teaching in Thailand are that Thai teachers rarely speak English to students and the foreigners hired to teach English are either non-native speakers or foreigners whose only qualification is that they are native speakers.  Another issue is that language learning is taught from a grammar-based perspective with exams usually given as multiple choice questions in order to be easily marked by anyone.  

Conversate is a nonstandard verb that means “to have a conversation.” The standard verb (and the one you should use if you want to be correct) is converse.

 

[herfiehandbag]

21 hours ago, Chris Daley said:

Yeah if you remove the corruption Thailand is at the bottom.

 

The exams are fake, the points are changed, national competitions are rigged.  But you will always see a wall of busy body Thais pushing paper around.  If you remove them the students can not compete in English.

The school at which I taught had a boy who won all the local "English" competitions for three years, and got 100% in  the ONET exam at the end of Primary 6. He featured prominently on their Facebook page, and come admissions time, took centre stage on the big vinyl advertising banner. He was born in America and only came here when his parents (Thai mother) moved back to Thailand when he was 8; but he went by a Thai name, and looked Thai.

 

My daughter, also effectively bilingual ( but not admittedly as good as him), was never entered for any competitions, not that it bothered me, but then she was fair and went by a western name.

 

They are of course fixed anyway. I remember being roped in to judge one such competition. The score I gave was "adjusted" so that the competitor attending the school hosting the competition won.

Edited November 29, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[steven100]

18 hours ago, Brick Top said:

 

Is it a house for sale or a horse ......  I've got an old saddle out in the shed ..

[Presnock]

10 hours ago, Paris333 said:

The English language is in the Latin alphabet and it is logical that Thais find it difficult to learn it like all Westerners.Do you know Thai? Do you know Chinese? Do you know Vietnamese? Do you know Cambodian? No! Why? Because it's in another alphabet of non-Latin origin. Russians as well as Arab "businessmen" (ha-ha-xha)have settled in Thailand .....

I have studied Thai and Vietnamese among the 10+ foreign languages I have studied.  I found them more difficult due to tonal sounds versus the different writing system.  My daughter a native born Thai/American speaking native fluency in both, also has studied Chinese (5 years) and Korean and as a native speaker of Thai and tones, easily mastered the Chinese speaking without giving it a thought.  She also taught herself Korean well enough to pass the level 4 international Korean proficiency test.  She continues her study of Korean as she wants to improve her test score and eventually get an advance degree in that language.  If one really wishes to learn a foreign language there are a multitude of teachers that can help based on how the student learns.  This has been explained to me by my daughter as she has also taught Thai students in Chinese, Korean, English and others in Thai so she told me that each student learns languages in a different way.  Works for her!

 

[brewsterbudgen]

11 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

I am sure you are right, although I have never investigated TEFL in the UK.

 

My point really was to counter the argument that only fully qualified " mainstream" foreign teachers should be employed to teach English in Thai schools.

 

Teaching English to people who can't speak any English or who are very low level, requires a different skill set to "mainstream" English teaching. Unfortunately, in Thailand a decent TEFL/TESOL qualification is not considered important.   Teaching English to students who are at an International school or institute is more like teaching English to kids in the UK.  Teachers at International schools/institutes are usually required to be qualified to teach in their home country.

There are hundreds of TEFL jobs in the UK as there's a requirement to teach immigrants (especially as the English language requirements are now higher) and lots of money to be made in teaching foreign students in the UK.  In the UK a proper, specialist TEFL/TESOL qualification is required for these jobs, but unfortunately they're not particularly well paid.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Teaching English to people who can't speak any English or who are very low level, requires a different skill set to "mainstream" English teaching.

My point exactly. 

I really think we are singing from the same hymn sheet, although I may be slightly out of tune!😀

Edited November 29, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[scorecard]

30 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

My point exactly. 

I really think we are singing from the same hymn sheet, although I may be slightly out of tune!😀

True. There's several training programs for this scenario in  'Teaching English as a second language' and more. In Bangkok.

 

But most of these programs are too short, some as little as 20 hours, and operated on a franchise basis, the owner of the local franchise not even fully versed in the subject.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by scorecard

[steevjee]

The Medieval rulers made sure the peasants were kept illiterate so as to avoid any potential uprisings.

 

Education leads to intelligent thinking, which means people then understand the difference between good and proper government and corrupt, uncaring government

[MangoKorat]

4 hours ago, steevjee said:

The Medieval rulers made sure the peasants were kept illiterate so as to avoid any potential uprisings.

Nothing's changed much then.

[MangoKorat]

4 hours ago, steevjee said:

Education leads to intelligent thinking, which means people then understand the difference between good and proper government and corrupt, uncaring government

I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference in Thailand.  Never has the saying 'They're all the same' been more applicable.  The only slight differences between the various past governments in Thailand is that they maybe vary the way they stitch the electorate up each time.

 

The country is run for the rich by the rich and anyone who gets in the way of that, or even tries, ends up in prison on trumped up charges/is publicly disgraced or in the worst cases - just disappears.

 

However, never have I seen the Thai electorate stitched up as badly as they have been in recent years.  First there was a coup, then a promise to return to democracy, then the army general who staged the coup changed his jacket and became 'democratically elected'.  He knew however, that he and his mob wouldn't last forever so concocted the stitch up of all stitch ups - created The Senate to ensure the retention of power.

 

Fast forward to the next election and what might just have had the possibility of being a truly democratically elected government looked likely - I think the result even shocked the 'jacket changer'.  Not to worry though. The Senate did what they were put in place to do and the democratically elected member of the winning party was not allowed to run the government. Amazing Thailand.

 

The stitch ups continue however.........'people', with an 8 year jail sentence have yet to spend one night of that sentence in an actual jail and in any case, their sentence has been reduced from 8 years to 1.

[stoutfella]

I'm amazed that statistic has been published.

[Nsp64]

On 11/28/2023 at 6:44 AM, bob smith said:

Perhaps Thailand would have been in a better position in 2023, both economically and educationally, if they were colonized by the British. Unpopular opinion but not without some validity. 

Proudly never been colonised,  always independent by cleverly keeping the farang at bay. Now begging for foreigners to come and save their economy,  education and welfare. Nothing wrong with colonisation if its advantageous.  Most 1st world countries were someones colony once. 

[radiochaser]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:58 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

It has been my experience at the airports, every time I've entered or left Thailand the IOs have always been able to speak English. 

Not all immigration officers (Thai Police) need to know English, speak it very well, or understand it.  My sister in law's ex husband worked as an immigration police officer for several years.  He worked inside and outside of Bangkok dealing with non English speaking illegals and never needed to understand or speak English.  I still have to converse with him in Thai.   My brother in law is a retired immigration officer.    He can understand more English than he can speak.   Even after living here in the U.S. of A. since 2011, my brother in law's English speaking skills are still worse than my limited Thai speaking skills and occasionally, I need translation by my wife when speaking with him. 

I do note that you specified "the airports", but my experience is that not all immigration officers at either Don Meung (when it was the only international airport in Bangkok) nor the newer one, AKA Swampy, can understand English or speak English well.   Several times in the past, at Swampy, I have needed my wife to translate from and to Thai when entering or departing Thailand. 

[scorecard]

On 11/28/2023 at 5:53 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

HAHA... I have encountered Singaporeans whose native language is english and they do not speak it very well... much like the british with all that mumbling

 You must have been unlucky and spoke with the 1 Singaporean who didn't attend primary and high school in English as is required by the aligned regulations.

[Liverpool Lou]

12 hours ago, radiochaser said:

I do note that you specified "the airports", but my experience is that not all immigration officers at either Don Meung (when it was the only international airport in Bangkok)

So you should have "noticed" that this is 2023 (which is the relevant time for this thread) not seventeen years ago!    IOs dealing with incoming visitors (and those leaving) all have enough English to be able to interact with the public that they have to deal with.

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 hours ago, scorecard said:

 You must have been unlucky and spoke with the 1 Singaporean who didn't attend primary and high school in English as is required by the aligned regulations.

No actually it was a tour group of about 30 of them... ranging from age 14 to about 50... not one could speak intelligible English

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

No actually it was a tour group of about 30 of them... ranging from age 14 to about 50... not one could speak intelligible English

 

You are confused. That's not possible, for several decades all students in Singapore do all their studies in English and the curriculum ensures they can read, write, converse in English before they even start primary school.

 

I've worked on projects, 2 days - 2 years many times in Singapore, all the staff / clients  I worked with spoke and understood good - advanced - very advanced English, most at the very advanced level.

 

Yes a few speak with a little bit of a chopped flow but still easy to understand what they are saying.

 

So your comment is not possible.

[radiochaser]

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

So you should have "noticed" that this is 2023 (which is the relevant time for this thread) not seventeen years ago!    IOs dealing with incoming visitors (and those leaving) all have enough English to be able to interact with the public that they have to deal with.

Yes, Don Meung was 17 years ago, if that was when Swampy opened,  but the lack of an English speaking immigration officer has been experienced as late as 2022.  Then there was the time in 2020, 2019, maybe 2017, etc.  Immigration officers don't always speak English.  The family has connections with the Thai Police, which includes those in immigration and the lack of the ability to speak English is very evident!   Heckfire, even when I went through the stairway hallway, that was where diplomatic entry into Thailand was once done at, (brother in law was an immigration police, remember) even those guys  could not speak English!  But yes, that was several years ago and not 2023!  And 2011 is not that long ago (see my copy and paste below). 

It is a good thing I have been married to a Thai translator for a little over 30 years!  I know enough Thai to get by and live a decent life in Thailand but I cannot have a decent conversation in Thai.   I still regret not taking the second semester of Thai language when I had the chance, when I was working in Thailand.

I am still amused that diplomats were processed by immigration in the hallway of a stairwell, vs where they go now.  

P.S. I also "noticed" how you edited my post to make your post more favorable for you. Way to go Lou!  Here is the entirety of my post, for those that may not have read my original post:

"Not all immigration officers (Thai Police) need to know English, speak it very well, or understand it.  My sister in law's ex husband worked as an immigration police officer for several years.  He worked inside and outside of Bangkok dealing with non English speaking illegals and never needed to understand or speak English.  I still have to converse with him in Thai.   My brother in law is a retired immigration officer.    He can understand more English than he can speak.   Even after living here in the U.S. of A. since 2011, my brother in law's English speaking skills are still worse than my limited Thai speaking skills and occasionally, I need translation by my wife when speaking with him. 

I do note that you specified "the airports", but my experience is that not all immigration officers at either Don Meung (when it was the only international airport in Bangkok) nor the newer one, AKA Swampy, can understand English or speak English well.   Several times in the past, at Swampy, I have needed my wife to translate from and to Thai when entering or departing Thailand.  "

[Brick Top]

On 11/29/2023 at 8:07 AM, steven100 said:

 

Is it a house for sale or a horse ......  I've got an old saddle out in the shed ..

Whatever there selling I hope it's in Stable Condition

[scorecard]

On 11/28/2023 at 6:33 AM, bob smith said:

I agree with a lot of what you said, however, Singapore are hardly in a position to lecture anybody on 'Human Rights'..

 

My son was studying the concepts of human rights from a textbook (I saw it, published by  well respected international textbook publisher) with positive  and negative examples from many countries.

 

It wasn't a study of human rights specific to Singapore.

[scorecard]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:22 AM, Cake Monster said:

 

Because English is the premier and preferred language across the Globe for conducting Business, and  also many digital tools for enhancing Business and making it more efficient and profitable are also in English, IMHO this is the prime reason Thailand is loosing its share of the Global Market

Things are not going to improve any time soon as long as Dinosaurs at the top make such comments as " Thai will be the premier language spoken all over the World "

 

My recollection is that the comment 'Thai will be the premier language spoken all over the World' was made quite a few years ago by an unimportant politician, and the comment was ignored.  

[scorecard]

On 11/28/2023 at 6:54 PM, MangoKorat said:

A past girlfriend spoke, wrote and read excellent English - the reason being that she was at University doing a degree in Tourism and Hospitality and the University banned the use of Thai whilst students were on campus. If they were heard to speak Thai, even in personal conversation with other students, they were sent home.

 

One thing I have never quite understood in Thailand is how anyone can get a job as an Immigration Officer when they don't speak English.

 

Do immigration officers in your country all speak Thai?

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

Do immigration officers in your country all speak Thai?

 

No, not required.  I expect some speak various Indian languages and Arabic though. 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

No, not required.  I expect some speak various Indian languages and Arabic though. 

 

How cute.

[lordgrinz]

On 11/29/2023 at 6:05 PM, MangoKorat said:

I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference in Thailand.  Never has the saying 'They're all the same' been more applicable.  The only slight differences between the various past governments in Thailand is that they maybe vary the way they stitch the electorate up each time.

 

The country is run for the rich by the rich and anyone who gets in the way of that, or even tries, ends up in prison on trumped up charges/is publicly disgraced or in the worst cases - just disappears.

 

However, never have I seen the Thai electorate stitched up as badly as they have been in recent years.  First there was a coup, then a promise to return to democracy, then the army general who staged the coup changed his jacket and became 'democratically elected'.  He knew however, that he and his mob wouldn't last forever so concocted the stitch up of all stitch ups - created The Senate to ensure the retention of power.

 

Fast forward to the next election and what might just have had the possibility of being a truly democratically elected government looked likely - I think the result even shocked the 'jacket changer'.  Not to worry though. The Senate did what they were put in place to do and the democratically elected member of the winning party was not allowed to run the government. Amazing Thailand.

 

The stitch ups continue however.........'people', with an 8 year jail sentence have yet to spend one night of that sentence in an actual jail and in any case, their sentence has been reduced from 8 years to 1.

 

...and now said "general" is on the Privy Counsel, where he can never be brought up on charges for what he has done to the country. Amazing Thailand!

[MangoKorat]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Do immigration officers in your country all speak Thai?

I am 100% sure they do not, they speak English.  Why do you think we have an international language?

 

But you know all that - you're just trying to be a smart8**

 

[brewsterbudgen]

8 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I am 100% sure they do not, they speak English.  Why do you think we have an international language?

 

But you know all that - you're just trying to be a smart8**

 

 555.  And not succeeding!