Putin admits heavy losses as EU to open membership talks with Kyiv

[CharlieH]

The EU has agreed to open membership talks with Ukraine.

European Council President Charles Michel said on Thursday: “The European Council has decided to open accession negotiations with Ukraine & Moldova.” Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky declared the move a victory “for Ukraine and all of Europe”.

 

The announcement came after Vladimir Putin inadvertently admitted that more than 300,000 Russian soldiers have died or been heavily wounded in the ongoing war. The figures are in stark contrast to the last death toll offered by the Kremlin, which suggested less than 6,000 troops in Ukraine had been killed.

During his first news conference since the full-scale invasion, he suggested that 244,000 Russians had been mobilised, before adding that 486,000 had volunteered to fight. He then proceeded to say that 617,000 Russians were fighting in Ukraine.

 

This figure roughly aligns with US estimates that were declassified earlier this week, which suggested that Russia had suffered 315,000 dead and injured troops in Ukraine. But the last time the Kremlin offered an estimate of the death toll was September 2022, in which they said only 5,937 soldiers had been killed.

 

FULL STORY

 

[Henk Langeweg]

The announcement came after Vladimir Putin inadvertently admitted that more than 300,000 Russian soldiers have died or been heavily wounded in the ongoing war. 

 

No way.

ps. Strange that all the links in the article are not reachable.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Henk Langeweg

[JonnyF]

Doesn't seem like Hungary is going to agree to these membership talks. More trouble for the EU.

 

https://tvpworld.com/74805706/orbn-blocks-ukraines-eu-accession-talks-plus-aid-at-summit

 

[JayClay]

35 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Doesn't seem like Hungary is going to agree to these membership talks. More trouble for the EU.

 

So are you saying that member states actually do have a democratic say in the operation of the European Union? It's almost as if the EU isn't actually the undemocratic, dictatorial regime that it's detracors claim, then, wouldn't you say?

[JonnyF]

23 minutes ago, JayClay said:

 

So are you saying that member states actually do have a democratic say in the operation of the European Union? It's almost as if the EU isn't actually the undemocratic, dictatorial regime that it's detracors claim, then, wouldn't you say?

 

They have the right to veto certain things, for now... I'd expect the powers to veto to be eroded over time as the article below suggests.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/05/04/nine-eu-countries-join-forces-to-reform-voting-rules-on-foreign-policy-and-dent-veto-power

 

But for now they can veto, as long as they are prepared to accept their punishment, likely to be a smaller slice of the pie at the next round of handouts from the net contributors like Britain was. Zere vill be consequences for Hungary's insubordination.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Doesn't seem like Hungary is going to agree to these membership talks. More trouble for the EU.

 

https://tvpworld.com/74805706/orbn-blocks-ukraines-eu-accession-talks-plus-aid-at-summit

 

 

Unfortunately, you are probably correct, given that there is no mechanism for ejecting Hungary. Maybe the other 26 EU members should form another organisation? They could also invite the UK to join.

Edited December 15, 2023 by RayC
Grammar

[RayC]

35 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

 Zere vill be consequences for Hungary's insubordination.

 

Rather childish, Jonny.

[JonnyF]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

They could also invite the UK to join.

 

Don't call us, we'll call you.

[sikishrory]

Maybe it's that time of month?? Time for some Tampons in the mens barracks I think. Hard to keep a clear head when you're on the rag

[wombat]

This is crazy beyond belief…as it stands if Ukraine joins the EU then the whole of the EU is at war with Russia.
Please correct me if I’m am wrong.

[Dirk Z]

Hungary sort of abstained, so Ukraine will start talks. But it can never join as long as there is a war going on, everybody is clear about that.

[tgw]

4 hours ago, Henk Langeweg said:

The announcement came after Vladimir Putin inadvertently admitted that more than 300,000 Russian soldiers have died or been heavily wounded in the ongoing war. 

 

No way.

ps. Strange that all the links in the article are not reachable.

 

which "all the links in the article" are you referring to ?

[tgw]

44 minutes ago, wombat said:

This is crazy beyond belief…as it stands if Ukraine joins the EU then the whole of the EU is at war with Russia.
Please correct me if I’m am wrong.

 

Yes you are wrong.

They are only starting the accession talks, and then maybe starting the process. The process involves preparing institutional structures in Ukraine for EU membership, for example changing Laws, Customs procedures, etc. In no way does this mean membership.
My understand is that EU membership, as well as NATO membership, can only be granted once Ukraine is at peace.
I'm sure about NATO, but even if I'm mistaken about the EU membership, the EU does not have a defence pact. So even if Ukraine was to become a EU member, it wouldn't mean war with the rest of the EU.

[tgw]

10 minutes ago, Dirk Z said:

Hungary sort of abstained, so Ukraine will start talks. But it can never join as long as there is a war going on, everybody is clear about that.

 

That was indeed my understanding as well, however, as AFAIK the EU does not have a defence pact, I'd guess war with one EU member would not mean war with the others.

 

[oustaristocrats]

5 hours ago, CharlieH said:

The EU has agreed to open membership talks with Ukraine.

European Council President Charles Michel said on Thursday: “The European Council has decided to open accession negotiations with Ukraine & Moldova.” Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky declared the move a victory “for Ukraine and all of Europe”.

 

The announcement came after Vladimir Putin inadvertently admitted that more than 300,000 Russian soldiers have died or been heavily wounded in the ongoing war. The figures are in stark contrast to the last death toll offered by the Kremlin, which suggested less than 6,000 troops in Ukraine had been killed.

During his first news conference since the full-scale invasion, he suggested that 244,000 Russians had been mobilised, before adding that 486,000 had volunteered to fight. He then proceeded to say that 617,000 Russians were fighting in Ukraine.

 

This figure roughly aligns with US estimates that were declassified earlier this week, which suggested that Russia had suffered 315,000 dead and injured troops in Ukraine. But the last time the Kremlin offered an estimate of the death toll was September 2022, in which they said only 5,937 soldiers had been killed.

 

FULL STORY

 

 

There is only one interesting question, if one at least is interested how this war could end : are there any Russians opening their mouth, and start to raise questions about this 300.000 death toll and much to come ? Since I wouldn't be able to name one other country (except N-Korea) where the whole population would go on the streets. I understand an angst regime is making people scared, but the radio silence in Russia is almost unbelievable. Also Russians outside their home country could be a bit more loud, I would say. Are there maybe some Russians in this forum who could explain ?

[Henk Langeweg]

10 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

which "all the links in the article" are you referring to ?

The underlined words. They are working now,  maybe my VPN was playing up.

Misread the article before the 300K deaths must be 300K deaths AND wounded. The difference between both is not specified. It was 40K deaths a few month ago ...

[tgw]

1 minute ago, oustaristocrats said:

 

There is only one interesting question, if one at least is interested how this war could end : are there any Russians opening their mouth, and start to raise questions about this 300.000 death toll and much to come ? Since I wouldn't be able to name one other country (except N-Korea) where the whole population would go on the streets. I understand an angst regime is making people scared, but the radio silence in Russia is almost unbelievable. Also Russians outside their home country could be a bit more loud, I would say. Are there maybe some Russians in this forum who could explain ?

 

maybe watch a couple of videos from this Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvsny1x119U

It's a Russian draft dodger who explains what is happening in Russia and why things aren't likely to change quickly.

 

How the war will end is a grim prospect at the moment - both sides think about 2025, 2026 ... 2030.

Putin wants to grind down Ukraine and Ukraine wants to exhaust Ruzzia.

 

Currently, Ukraine has trouble defending because it's low on ammo, so Ruzzians keep advancing even incurring huge losses, but Ukraine holds the line.

Once ammunition production ramps up, Ukraine's defence will be much better.

Support from Western allies is also crucial.

 

And think about it: if Putin is able to do what he does without much opposition from his citizens subjects, what will stop him once his strategy will have worked in Ukraine ?
Putin and Ruzzia need to be stopped at all costs.
 

[tgw]

10 minutes ago, Henk Langeweg said:

The underlined words. They are working now,  maybe my VPN was playing up.

Misread the article before the 300K deaths must be 300K deaths AND wounded. The difference between both is not specified. It was 40K deaths a few month ago ...

 

if Putin is admitting 300k dead and wounded, we can safely assume the real number is at least double.

the Kremlin has been lying about nearly everything.

 

and when the Kremlin talks about "Russian losses", they mean Russian losses, still lying about it, but they limit their lie to Russian losses.

Not Wagner, not LNR, DPR, Belarusian, etc. losses. unsure about Chechen. They don't include all losses of Russian-uniform-wearing soldiers in their lie, only those that were provided with a Russian military book.

 

In the meanwhile, Ukraine is reporting  342.800 enemies killed and  ~1.028.400 wounded.

Edited December 15, 2023 by tgw

[rudi49jr]

15 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

if Putin is admitting 300k dead and wounded, we can safely assume the real number is at least double.

the Kremlin has been lying about nearly everything.

 

and when the Kremlin talks about "Russian losses", they mean Russian losses, still lying about it, but they limit their lie to Russian losses.

Not Wagner, not LNR, DPR, Belarusian, etc. losses. unsure about Chechen. They don't include all losses of Russian-uniform-wearing soldiers in their lie, only those that were provided with a Russian military book.

 

In the meanwhile, Ukraine is reporting  342.800 enemies killed and  ~1.028.400 wounded.

 

“A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday.”

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/
 

So nearly 90% of the personnel Russia had when the conflict began are either dead or injured. I’d call that pretty catastrophic.

 

 

[spidermike007]

Glad to see King Vlad admit he has had his butt handed to him by the Ukrainians, who he grossly underestimated. He has shown himself to be infinitely less intelligent than many of us assumed he was, and It has been a severe humiliation for this genocidal, multi billionaire thief, dictator for life, liar and serial killer.

[JayClay]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Maybe the other 26 EU members should form another organisation? They could also invite the UK to join.

 

There is actually a proposal to create a two-teir system within the EU. And if anything every comes from it, it very well could be the first point of reentry for the UK. Probably best not to get off topic on that side of things, though...

 

The second-teir of course could also be used to accelerate Ukraine's entry. But I'm sure it would still exclude countries currently at war.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/05/11/what-do-we-know-about-macron-s-idea-for-a-two-tier-europe

[xtrnuno41]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Doesn't seem like Hungary is going to agree to these membership talks. More trouble for the EU.

 

https://tvpworld.com/74805706/orbn-blocks-ukraines-eu-accession-talks-plus-aid-at-summit

 

Even weirder, I red they voted for the Ukraine to EU, when Orban had left the room !!

They also tried to buy his vote in return of 10 billion for Hungary !! Guess that one is for entering Ukraine to EU.

But then 50 billion agreement was taken WITH Orban in room. Bit weird put in article.

There were 2 issues to be discussed. Ukraine to EU AND the 50 billion support.

15 billion in gifts and the rest in loans. I dont understand, as there is 300 billion Russia money frozen in EU !

Why do I and many others need to pay for all this ! Get that Russia money !

[Dave0206]

It's great that Hungary a large euro recipient of funds worries how money should be spent. 

Uk was 2nd net contributing to eu after Germany I wonder how they are filling the gap with wonderful partners like orbon

[BusyB]

39 minutes ago, Dave0206 said:

It's great that Hungary a large euro recipient of funds worries how money should be spent. 

Uk was 2nd net contributing to eu after Germany I wonder how they are filling the gap with wonderful partners like orbon

 

We're getting on fine don't worry.

 

We're becoming larger, more integrated, democratic and we're setting up common funding and dreadful things like that. We're becoming something worse than your blackest Brexit nightmares. You really don't want to come back, honest.

 

So don't worry and enjoy your Brexit  

[CanadaSam]

Brexit?  Stupidest sh** I've heard of.  We need to band together, to fight off the criminal dictatorships who are trying to take over peaceful nations.  Run your own countries, don't try to take over neighbors who are having a tough enough time running their own.

[Tug]

7 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

 

“A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday.”

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/
 

So nearly 90% of the personnel Russia had when the conflict began are either dead or injured. I’d call that pretty catastrophic.

 

 

Incredible it’s obvious he really has the Russian population suppressed and terrified but I’m sure Mr Putin the murderous war criminal takes solace in his most valuable asset that would be Mr Donald jhon trump and the absolutely cowed cowards in the gop controlled House of Representatives.just think of it for less than 6% of our national defense budget the Russians have (at the hands of the heroic Ukrainians)been stopped dead and pushed back all without cost of American lives I’d call that remarkable.but Putin is banking on his best asset the GOP it’s a disgrace 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, CharlieH said:

The EU has agreed to open membership talks with Ukraine.

One used to wonder if the EU leadership were idiots or just the usual sort of politician. One now knows and IMO it's not the latter.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Why do I and many others need to pay for all this ! Get that Russia money !

If governments can steal other people's money just because they don't like them, we are all in trouble. The EU isn't even at war with Russia so what legal means would they have to do so?

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Glad to see King Vlad admit he has had his butt handed to him by the Ukrainians, who he grossly underestimated. He has shown himself to be infinitely less intelligent than many of us assumed he was, and It has been a severe humiliation for this genocidal, multi billionaire thief, dictator for life, liar and serial killer.

Thanks for the funniest post I've seen in a long time. I needed a laugh.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

Hungary sort of abstained, so Ukraine will start talks. But it can never join as long as there is a war going on, everybody is clear about that.

Nothing is set in stone, if the politicians want something enough. After all they are the ones who make the rules.

Seems to me Euro politicians just can't wait to start WW3.