Is my landlord extorting me on filing a TM 30?

[keysersoze276]

I am in Nonthanburi Province.  I am on a Non-O based on marriage.  I have been renting this same condo for several years.  My landlord (not the owner), claims she cannot register a TM30 (proof of residency) online because the system doesn't work.  I have to go myself with my wife, which is about 500-600baht in a taxi for the total fare, plus a few hours of a day.  The alternative is to hand my passport over to my landlord and give her 500 baht.  I have been doing this for a few years now, every 90 days or so upon exiting and entering the country.  500 isn't too bad since I don't keep my savings in a Thai bank and I pay or a little more just to get to the immigration office, plus the time it takes and I am not super excited to deal with immigration and drag my wife with me.   However, is it not the landlord's responsibility to register me rather than my responsibility?  Should I really be paying 500 everytime I enter Thailand?  Does anyone know how this is not possible to do online in Nonthaburi?  I didn't mind the first few times, but this has been going on for years.  Any insight is very much appreciated.

[SAFETY FIRST]

12 minutes ago, keysersoze276 said:

 Does anyone know how this is not possible to do online

I do it online, all the information is stored. 

 

Just have to add a few details. 

 

I'm not renting, not sure if it's different for you. 

 

https://tm30.immigration.go.th/tm30api/loginExternal.jsp?value=EXT&id=f000b88f211c5ca90ce2e1df3da2ae32

 

 

 

[keysersoze276]

Please don't say to put 400k in a Thai bank and make a meter tall stack of copies and pour blood, sweat and tears into doing it every year.  I love to travel for recreation anyway, and have had several minor surgeries in neighboring countries because I find the hospitals of higher quality, cheaper, and less scams...as we have seen with the Taiwansese man who died in the hit and run, amongst several foreigners being held what I can only consider being held hostage and over charged, and dual pricing, etc.  I don't mind exiting and entering every 90 days or so with a fresh stamp in my passport.

 

[keysersoze276]

3 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I do it online, all the information is stored. 

 

Just have to add a few details. 

 

Are you in Nonthaburi?  She says is is impossible.  I tried it several months ago and came to a dead end myself.

 

 

 

[SAFETY FIRST]

1 minute ago, keysersoze276 said:

Are you in Nonthaburi?  She says is is impossible.  I tried it several months ago and came to a dead end myself.

Try again, it's a newer website 

 

[JimTripper]

Try doing it online. Demand any needed documentation from your landlord!

 

If they don't give up the documents needed, it's a scam.

[foreverlomsak]

To answer the question in the heading - Yes.

She want's the rental money, but doesn't want to comply with the Thai legal requirements associated with renting, I may be wrong in this but I do not believe you are required to submit a TM30 every time you return to your home address (even from a visit abroad).

[DrJack54]

27 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

I do not believe you are required to submit a TM30 every time you return to your home address (even from a visit abroad).

You are correct.

 

The OP is on continuous extensions, don't understand why he needs a TM30.

Perhaps it's immigration office specific same as CM. 

 

[keysersoze276]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You are correct.

 

The OP is on continuous extensions, don't understand why he needs a TM30.

Perhaps it's immigration office specific same as CM. 

 

Well, I have a one year visa, but I am required to enter and exit every 90 days. I’m not a tourist and I am following the laws.  But is she (the landlord). 

[keysersoze276]

38 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

To answer the question in the heading - Yes.

She want's the rental money, but doesn't want to comply with the Thai legal requirements associated with renting, I may be wrong in this but I do not believe you are required to submit a TM30 every time you return to your home address (even from a visit abroad).

I believe you are wrong. At least partially.  From what I understand the hotel, landlord, etc is obligated to report the TM30 upon arrival. However, I can’t understand why I have to pay for ir every time I get back home. 

[keysersoze276]

53 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Try doing it online. Demand any needed documentation from your landlord!

 

If they don't give up the documents needed, it's a scam.

I did that. She still says the aane thing.  500 to for her to go to immigration and it cannot be done online. 

[keysersoze276]

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Try again, it's a newer website 

 

I’ll give it a go and report back to you guys. 

[keysersoze276]

17 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You are correct.

 

The OP is on continuous extensions, don't understand why he needs a TM30.

Perhaps it's immigration office specific same as CM. 

 

It was my understanding that we used to have to do this when traveling even inside of Thailand, then a couple years ago, only when one would enter Thailand from another country.  I definitely could have missed some news about this nonsense.  I could be flat out wrong.  Please enlighten me.  And to be sure TM30 is proof of accommodation/residency, correct?  Furthermore, if so, it is the hotel, bnb, condo or apartment manager's responsibility, yeah?   Not mine?  I travel a lot these days and I feel I am paying a penalty every time I come back.  500 isn't much, but it has added up to a lot.

 

[JimTripper]

23 minutes ago, keysersoze276 said:

I did that. She still says the aane thing.  500 to for her to go to immigration and it cannot be done online. 

 

I would call scam and goto immigration myself. Some of these people if you pay like that they just think up a new way to charge you, or the "fee" goes up in the future. It's kind of enabling them in a way.

 

The next time you renew your lease maybe you have a list of all the docs needed and she provides them all at signing.

[Ohyesuare]

10 minutes ago, keysersoze276 said:

It was my understanding that we used to have to do this when traveling even inside of Thailand, then a couple years ago, only when one would enter Thailand from another country.  I definitely could have missed some news about this nonsense.  I could be flat out wrong.  Please enlighten me.  And to be sure TM30 is proof of accommodation/residency, correct?  Furthermore, if so, it is the hotel, bnb, condo or apartment manager's responsibility, yeah?   Not mine?  I travel a lot these days and I feel I am paying a penalty every time I come back.  500 isn't much, but it has added up to a lot.

 

 

It's your permanent address, you've been living there several years, you don't need to do a TM30 every time you leave and enter the country if the address is the same. And if you are leaving the country every 90 days anyway, the TM30 is only asked for/enforced when you go to immigration to extend your permission to stay which you say you don't need to do.

 

As per your other question, technically it's the landlord's responsibility but some argue it's the "master of the house" that is responsible to do it as well and the landlord or tenant can be fined for not doing it if it's found out you haven't when you visit immigration for an extension of stay.

 

It sounds like the landlady has been scamming you though and pocketing your 500 baht each time for doing basically nothing. Do you even get a new TM30 notification slip from her each time she supposedly does it? If you don't, then she 100% has been scamming you.

[Red Phoenix]

You are on a 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O Visa (Marriage) which means you receive a NEW Permission to stay for 90 days every time you re-enter Thailand during the validity of that 1-year Visa.

And that also means that in principle you NEVER have to visit your local Immigration Office. 

So why do you bother about issuing an updated TM-30 each time you re-enter Thailand?  You would only have to do that, when you needed a specific service from your local Imm Office (e.g. if you would be applying for a 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife, or when you need a Residence Certificate). 

In your case I simply wouldn't bother about doing that TM-30 notification, because it is the owner/landlord of the residence where a foreigner is residing that is required by Thai law to notify the local Immigration office that a foreigner is staying at the premises.  In a twisted Thai logic way, the Imm Offices by not providing a service when the foreigner cannot provide evidence that a TM-30 was done, put the onus on the foreigner that requires a service from them. So in your case - not needing any such services - it is your landlord that needs to do the TM-30 notification otherwise she could be fined for not having done it.  

Note: When you pay your landlord the 500,- THB for doing the TM-30 notification does your passport contain the stapled notification slip?  If not, it could well be that your landlord simply pockets the money and doesn't bother doing it (as he knows you will not visit Immigration anyway).   

[DrJack54]

34 minutes ago, keysersoze276 said:

It was my understanding that we used to have to do this when traveling even inside of Thailand, then a couple years ago, only when one would enter Thailand from another country

I will attach a thread that outlines the changes made in June 2020.

Sadly some immigration offices have ignored this change eg CM.

 

If you are on continuous stay based on extensions etc and travel throughout Thailand to various provinces you do not need to file a TM30 when you return to your residence.

Also if you travel internationally and return with eg reentry permit then again you do not need to file a TM30.

 

 

Read 2.2 in OP of this thread

https://aseannow.com/topic/1169664-thai-immigration-announce-changes-to-tm30-reporting/

 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

am not super excited to deal with immigration and drag my wife with me.

You could make it quality time together. 

[JoseThailand]

5 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

and have had several minor surgeries in neighboring countries because I find the hospitals of higher quality, cheaper, and less scams

 

Where did you find better hospitals in neighboring countries? From what I saw, neighboring countries like Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam are so much worse and more expensive.

[Pattaya57]

OP, writing as a Landlord my real estate agent does the first TM30 for a new renter at a cost of 500 baht to me (I could do myself but rather not have to bother). 

 

If the renter then leaves the country and comes back on a new visa, they have a choice of paying the real estate agent 500 baht or do it themselves as a possessor of the property showing their rental lease as proof.

 

As Landlord, I'm not responsible everytime a renter decides to  leave the country and that's why immigration allow a renter to do it as current possessor of the property

 

Hope that helps

[SAFETY FIRST]

8 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

writing as a Landlord my real estate agent does the first TM30

 

OP is direct with landlord. 

 

No agent 

[Ralf001]

You are renting the property.

You are house master.

Do TM-30 yourself.

No need to involve landlord.

[Pattaya57]

35 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

OP is direct with landlord. 

 

No agent 

I'm not sure as OP states:

 

"My landlord (not the owner), claims she cannot register a TM30 (proof of residency) online because the system doesn't work."

 

If they are not the owner and not an agent then who are they?

[SAFETY FIRST]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I'm not sure as OP states:

 

"My landlord (not the owner), claims she cannot register a TM30 (proof of residency) online because the system doesn't work."

 

If they are not the owner and not an agent then who are they?

No idea

Could be subletting 

Maybe spouse of the owner. 

 

I understand your point, having the agent deal with the tm30 is convenient. 

 

[Pattaya57]

Just now, SAFETY FIRST said:

No idea, could be subletting 

 

TM30 requires the owners ID and Chanote, or renter can do themselves using their lease. If his Landlord is not the owner and is giving him hassle then he should just do it himself as possessor of the property

[thesetat]

19 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

I am in Nonthanburi Province.  I am on a Non-O based on marriage.  I have been renting this same condo for several years.  My landlord (not the owner), claims she cannot register a TM30 (proof of residency) online because the system doesn't work.  I have to go myself with my wife, which is about 500-600baht in a taxi for the total fare, plus a few hours of a day.  The alternative is to hand my passport over to my landlord and give her 500 baht.  I have been doing this for a few years now, every 90 days or so upon exiting and entering the country.  500 isn't too bad since I don't keep my savings in a Thai bank and I pay or a little more just to get to the immigration office, plus the time it takes and I am not super excited to deal with immigration and drag my wife with me.   However, is it not the landlord's responsibility to register me rather than my responsibility?  Should I really be paying 500 everytime I enter Thailand?  Does anyone know how this is not possible to do online in Nonthaburi?  I didn't mind the first few times, but this has been going on for years.  Any insight is very much appreciated.

Your landlord is either not doing the filing and keeping the money or lying to you. Attached is the law for this which clearly states if you are registered there one time and leave the country for short periods or travel within Thailand and return you are not required to register again at the same household. Here is a photo of the law. 

TM30 reporting regulation.pdf

[CecilM]

20 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

I am in Nonthanburi Province.  I am on a Non-O based on marriage.  I have been renting this same condo for several years.  My landlord (not the owner), claims she cannot register a TM30 (proof of residency) online because the system doesn't work.  I have to go myself with my wife, which is about 500-600baht in a taxi for the total fare, plus a few hours of a day.  The alternative is to hand my passport over to my landlord and give her 500 baht.  I have been doing this for a few years now, every 90 days or so upon exiting and entering the country.  500 isn't too bad since I don't keep my savings in a Thai bank and I pay or a little more just to get to the immigration office, plus the time it takes and I am not super excited to deal with immigration and drag my wife with me.   However, is it not the landlord's responsibility to register me rather than my responsibility?  Should I really be paying 500 everytime I enter Thailand?  Does anyone know how this is not possible to do online in Nonthaburi?  I didn't mind the first few times, but this has been going on for years.  Any insight is very much appreciated.

You could think of this as a cost of living there. 
Or you could tell the landlord that you will be filing a complaint at revenue board (or whatever it's called) and accept the consequences. Likely he/she isn't paying tax on the rental income. The landlord might then be more cooperative. 

[Red Phoenix]

32 minutes ago, thesetat said:

Your landlord is either not doing the filing and keeping the money or lying to you. Attached is the law for this which clearly states if you are registered there one time and leave the country for short periods or travel within Thailand and return you are not required to register again at the same household. Here is a photo of the law. 

TM30 reporting regulation.pdf 1.2 MB · 1 download

~

That's correct when you are on a 90-day Non Imm O Visa or 1-year extension of such.  But OP has a MultipleEntry Non Imm O Visa, which provides him with a 90-day Permission to Stay on each entry in Thailand.  As a result the TM-30 which he might have done for his previous Permission to stay is invalidated. 

But as I wrote in a previous response, since he never visits his local Imm Office he shouldn't bother about it.

And if he is anxious about it, he or his landlord could register on the IO TM-30 system which would allow to do the TM-30 notification on-line without having to visit his local Imm Office.

[Wrwest]

19 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

Well, I have a one year visa, but I am required to enter and exit every 90 days. I’m not a tourist and I am following the laws.  But is she (the landlord). 

Something screwed up here. I have an “O” Extension based on marriage to a Thai national. The one year extension does not require me to exit during the  year. Same as my previous “OA” extensions, no requirement to exit during the period of the extension of stay in Thailand.

[Red Phoenix]

31 minutes ago, Wrwest said:

Something screwed up here. I have an “O” Extension based on marriage to a Thai national. The one year extension does not require me to exit during the  year. Same as my previous “OA” extensions, no requirement to exit during the period of the extension of stay in Thailand.

~

OP is NOT on a 1-year extension of his 90-day Non Imm O Marriage Visa.  He applied for a 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O Marriage Visa (probably at the Thai Embassy in Savannakhet, Laos). That - very popular - Visa is valid for 1 year and will provide you with a 90-day Permission to stay when entering Thailand. At the end of those 90 days you either need to exit Thailand or apply for a 60-day or 1-year extension at your local Thai Imm Office. So by doing border-hops at the end of each 90-days Permission to stay - which will provide you with a NEW 90-day Permission to stay - you can squeeze 15 months of stay out of that Visa without ever having to visit your local Imm Office.  And at the end of those 15 months you can simply apply again for a NEW 1-year ME Non Imm O Marriage Visa.