refused first 1 year extension of stay on Non-O retirment visa at CW today

[likerdup1]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

I have never been asked for any kind of unofficial payment at CW. It seems not to be a feature with that office.

I DIY all my immigration business and have never got any indication from any Immigration official at CW or Jomtien that some "tip" or payment would "expedite the process". What I have seen is that agents have relationships with IO's and even saw about 3 or 4 agents bring gift baskets into good old Desk Number 7 (commonly reffered to as the dragon lady) at one of my visits to Jomtien. How often does one visit the Immigration office? As little as possible but that day I waited for 2 hours and during that time I saw several agents visit desk 7 carrying large gift baskets of "goodies".

[L0St]

I managed to do my first 90-day non-O retirement visa at Jomtien, in the back office. I had an overkill of paperwork and I tried to explain in thai what I had and the (dragon) lady just rifled through it all and said very abruptly, this is what I want, copied three times and signed, and it will be accepted.

 

Address requirements were minimum 3 month [duplicate] rental contract, ID card of owner, tabien baan of both the apartment and also the address on the ID card. It appeared like it was intended to be as difficult as possible.

 

Now my main question: I am now living in BKK on a 6 month contract and while I would love to move back to somewhere near the sea, I wish to get my 2nd annual visa extension sorted out first, if possible, before moving.

 

The requirements of the ID card of the owner and the tabien baan of both the apartment and ID card address, do limit my choices of accommodation.

 

Would be eternally grateful, if anyone knows whether JW requires similar proof of address documentation, or it's just up to the IO on duty that day?

 

My second question, which I really would like to start a whole new topic on, is which jangwats enforce this proof of address and which do not?

Edited December 20, 2023 by L0St
deleted duplicate word

[mokwit]

4 hours ago, L0St said:

Address requirements were minimum 3 month [duplicate] rental contract, ID card of owner, tabien baan of both the apartment and also the address on the ID card. It appeared like it was intended to be as difficult as possible.

That is a standard address verification requirement for TM30.

[Des1]

On 12/19/2023 at 11:38 PM, DrJack54 said:

Few things going on.

Yes you would not require a TM47.

Just checking that is was in fact your FIRST extension.

As for TM30 that should have been sufficient.

No idea what the io issue was.

Perhaps just being difficult.

 

As regards agent...just a suggestion as time running out. 

You have financials etc in place. 

Perhaps an agent can "make it happen" 

 

Just to note: I recently got my first one year extension at CW. I did have a one year lease and TM30. The senior IO told me to come back with the House Registration and Land Title Deed.

 

On 12/19/2023 at 11:38 PM, DrJack54 said:

Few things going on.

Yes you would not require a TM47.

Just checking that is was in fact your FIRST extension.

As for TM30 that should have been sufficient.

No idea what the io issue was.

Perhaps just being difficult.

 

As regards agent...just a suggestion as time running out. 

You have financials etc in place. 

Perhaps an agent can "make it happen" 

 

 

[ukrules]

7 minutes ago, Des1 said:

Just to note: I recently got my first one year extension at CW. I did have a one year lease and TM30. The senior IO told me to come back with the House Registration and Land Title Deed.

 

They're making problems here where there were none before.

The TM30 should be good enough, it's proof positive of where you live.

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by ukrules

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

They're making problems here where there were none before.

The TM30 should be good enough, it's proof positive of where you live.

 

Exactly, the documents they are asking for would already have been provided in order for the TM30 to be filed.

[likerdup1]

3 hours ago, Des1 said:

Just to note: I recently got my first one year extension at CW. I did have a one year lease and TM30. The senior IO told me to come back with the House Registration and Land Title Deed.

 

 

Ok, crap so I also need the land title deed on top of the Tambien Baan? I thought it was one of the other. What a pain in the butt. So you had to return and bring copies of the Tambien Baan AND Land Title Deed? did the officer also want a signed copy of the owners ID? The officer didn't ask me for that but I'm getting it anyway in case he surprises me with more requirements.. get's more and more difficult every year.

Edited December 21, 2023 by likerdup1

[likerdup1]

3 hours ago, Des1 said:

Just to note: I recently got my first one year extension at CW. I did have a one year lease and TM30. The senior IO told me to come back with the House Registration and Land Title Deed.

 

 

Was the officer a male officer? What desk did you visit? What number L desk was it?

[Des1]

4 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

Was the officer a male officer? What desk did you visit? What number L desk was it?

L1 desk 35. A young gal with a nice figure. At the desk behind her was the nasty senior IO - male.

[likerdup1]

11 minutes ago, Des1 said:

L1 desk 35. A young gal with a nice figure. At the desk behind her was the nasty senior IO - male.

Are you sure you needed both the Tambien Baan and Land Title Deed copies. Crap, my apartment manager is giving me push back now about getting the Land Title Deed copy..

I was shown that placard by the IO but thought it was just one or the other.

 

Yea L1 35.. same desk I visited. Same IO's

Yep the senior male IO reviewed my paper work and refused my extension. "where's your contract" and showed me that placard with the Tambien Baan and House Book explained.. man this never used to be so hard.

Edited December 21, 2023 by likerdup1

[norbra]

13 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

Was the officer a male officer? What desk did you visit? What number L desk was it?

I have made appointments for the last several years,the Io's in L32 are very helpful,last year I had all my docs but the doc checker gal pulled two copies as not needed,on getting to L32 the io printed off copies of the not needed docs without question or comment.

[Des1]

10 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

Are you sure you needed both the Tambien Baan and Land Title Deed copies. Crap, my apartment manager is giving me push back now about getting the Land Title Deed copy..

I was shown that placard by the IO but thought it was just one or the other.

 

Yea L1 35.. same desk I visited. Same IO's

Yep the senior male IO reviewed my paper work and refused my extension. "where's your contract" and showed me that placard with the Tambien Baan and House Book explained.. man this never used to be so hard.

 

4 minutes ago, norbra said:

I have made appointments for the last several years,the Io's in L32 are very helpful,last year I had all my docs but the doc checker gal pulled two copies as not needed,on getting to L32 the io printed off copies of the not needed docs without question or comment.

Well, I might be making an assumption about that. However, he did not indicate to me that I could bring one or the other and I certainly got the impression I needed both.

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

If this were common practice at Chang Wattana I would think we'd read much more about this kind of thing in this forum. I read quite a bit here and yours is the first instance stating it's common place. That "many people I know have done it". If that's the case why isn't it talked about more here?

 

If bribing was something commonly done by Farangs at immigration and without any possible ramifications I think we'd see almost every other post say something like "Be sure and bring a few thousand extra in case there is a problem". Be sure and be prepared if there is a problem and then ask them "is there anything I can do to move this along" whilst opening your wallet. etc etc.

 

Your experience maybe truly yours, but I'm not one to risk being punished by an I/O who is by the book and decides to accuse me of bribery etc.

 

I can almost predict the response to this post. Oh yea, I've done it! Every other time! I'm and expert at bribing Immigration Officials. I got my Non-O without even filling out any forms.. Just showed the I/O 10,000 THB and it was done and dusted!!! ... ah no!!

It is very commonplace here. I have actually had immigration agents suggest I contact "their agent" to process the forms, and pay the bribes. I would guess less than 10% are the honest, by the book types you mention.

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, mokwit said:

I have never been asked for any kind of unofficial payment at CW. It seems not to be a feature with that office.

You typically will not be asked for an unofficial payment. It is a means to convenience. It speeds things up, allows you to bypass certain requirements and makes things easier. You have to know how to offer the bribe in a subtle manner.

[mokwit]

38 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You typically will not be asked for an unofficial payment. It is a means to convenience. It speeds things up, allows you to bypass certain requirements and makes things easier. You have to know how to offer the bribe in a subtle manner.

I am not sure how much quicker they could process my extension at CW. I am aware of the situations where things proceed very slowly unless there is incentivisation, but my annual extension is not one of them.

[likerdup1]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

You typically will not be asked for an unofficial payment. It is a means to convenience. It speeds things up, allows you to bypass certain requirements and makes things easier. You have to know how to offer the bribe in a subtle manner.

Let's not talk about this any longer. I think most of us on this forum prefer to not use agents and prefer to not participate in graft if it is at all avoidable. In short I will not go back to CW with the same paper work and offer a bribe to the officer.

 

I have not used and agent for 10 years of business with Immigration. I will not start now and will not participate in corruption unless absolutely necessary and it being some kind of desperate last resort.

Edited December 21, 2023 by likerdup1

[norbra]

43 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

Let's not talk about this any longer. I think most of us on this forum prefer to not use agents and prefer to not participate in graft if it is at all avoidable. In short I will not go back to CW with the same paper work and offer a bribe to the officer.

 

I have not used and agent for 10 years of business with Immigration. I will not start now and will not participate in corruption unless absolutely necessary and some kind of desperate last resort.

Some years ago I was offered "a package" at CW.

The sales pitch for this xK baht package was that is cheaper than starting again.

I chose to start again.

Edited December 21, 2023 by norbra

[Felton Jarvis]

Cambodia is open. Go where you're wanted. Thai Immigration can't wipe their own backside without a special form.

[jaywalker2]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:41 PM, jaywalker2 said:

Basically, they're telling you to use an agent. No lease, TM30 or proof of funds needed. You can even got to an agent in Pattaya and they'll sort it out for you. Or use Thai Visa in Bangkok. They'll send someone to your room to pick up your passport.

Apparently, this post caused some confusion. What I meant was by making onerous demands, the IO is pushing the applicant in the direction of an agent. When the agent applies for you, suddenly all that documentation becomes superfluous for some reason.

[spidermike007]

50 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

Apparently, this post caused some confusion. What I meant was by making onerous demands, the IO is pushing the applicant in the direction of an agent. When the agent applies for you, suddenly all that documentation becomes superfluous for some reason.

Exactly what I am saying, 90% of immigration agents are as crooked as the highway from Chiang Mai to Pai.

[likerdup1]

2 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Cambodia is open. Go where you're wanted. Thai Immigration can't wipe their own backside without a special form.

Well after this and the ever increasing number of hoops and mazes to navigate I'm certainly getting feeling I'm being really taken advantage of and looked at as possible cash cow from unscrupulous people. Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Buenos Aires, Columbia are looking a bit more attractive as time goes on as Thailand continues to change treatment of long stay expats. This recent business with the tax code has been one big cluster ferk. Just check out the long threads about it here. total confusion. Who want to live with this constant uncertainly of what things will be like next year let along next month.

 

You know I actually serve the poor and help orphans here in Thailand. Of course Immigration doesn't know that but I am actually here to try to help the country and enjoy the climate, cheaper standard of living etc.

 

I show up to Immigration and dress appropriately to show respect. I bring all my forms computer typed. Not just scribbled by hand. I provide everything that I have been advised to provide and get refused this week. the is the first time I was every refused an extension. The extension desk at Jomtien has been historically quite reasonable. But this IO at L1 35 desk Chang Wattana was "sticky" as the Immigration customer service agent described him on the phone.

 

Anyway.. those who laugh at me trying to side step me participating in corruption don't understand that I try to live an honest life. The best way I can. This is for personal reasons that I try to be as moral as I can. So the idea of using an agent, side stepping requirements and such goes against my personal spiritual beliefs. I am also not a big participant in the pay for play business that so many who come to Thailand actively pursue. I am not saint, I've done it before but lately it's not something that is satisfying anymore, again because it's kind of like corruption. It's not love, it's just mastrubation with a paid participant.. anyway. I think you get the picture. I'm not interested in participating in corruption for personal reasons.

Edited December 21, 2023 by likerdup1

[likerdup1]

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

Apparently, this post caused some confusion. What I meant was by making onerous demands, the IO is pushing the applicant in the direction of an agent. When the agent applies for you, suddenly all that documentation becomes superfluous for some reason.

Yea, I am pretty sure that is a text book example of corruption.

Edited December 21, 2023 by likerdup1

[likerdup1]

2 hours ago, norbra said:

Some years ago I was offered "a package" at CW.

The sales pitch for this xK baht package was that is cheaper than starting again.

I chose to start again.

Good for you. did an actual Imm Officer offer you the "package" . Who offered it to you? Curious.

[John Drake]

Reports of anybody else having had this happen to them at Chaengwattana? Or is this run around a one off issue? 

[likerdup1]

12 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Reports of anybody else having had this happen to them at Chaengwattana? Or is this run around a one off issue? 

Read through the thread, one other expat (Des1) ran into exactly the same issue with the same Immigration Officer at the same desk.

Desk L1 35 at CW

This maybe a trend at this desk as I think it's THE desk that handles retirement extensions there. I seem to remember seeing a sign nearby marking that particular desk and the two I/O's that are there as the retirement Non-O visa extension officers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to be the case.

 

I would advise anybody who does extensions themselves to be fore warned and have the housing documentation. In order. What is out of the ordinary is this desk is asking for the Tabien Baan as well as the lease contract. Perhaps more. I will report when I return to "try again" Phew....

Edited December 21, 2023 by likerdup1

[Felton Jarvis]

2 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Read through the thread, one other expat (Des1) ran into exactly the same issue with the same Immigration Officer at the same desk.

Desk L1 35 at CW

This maybe a trend at this desk as I think it's THE desk that handles retirement extensions there. I seem to remember seeing a sign nearby marking that particular desk and the two I/O's that are there as the retirement Non-O visa extension officers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to be the case.

 

I would advise anybody who does extensions themselves to be fore warned and have the housing documentation. In order. What is out of the ordinary is this desk is asking for the Tabien Baan as well as the lease contract. Perhaps more. I will report when I return to "try again" Phew....

Your post is good advice. My own situation is a bit different since my "agent" is also my landlady. She and her family have always been able to secure my extension of stay with no problems. The price is a bit more than I would like to pay but is less than many other agents.  The idea that we are supporting corruption by using agents is just stupid. Thailand has many "laws" that would be struck down by courts in a great many democratic countries. Trying to do things the "honest" way will simply result in the denial of your extension of stay. There is no sane reason to make things harder than they have to be.

[norbra]

2 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Good for you. did an actual Imm Officer offer you the "package" . Who offered it to you? Curious.

I've never encountered an "agent" at CW.

[MPoll]

I did five OA extensions at CW myself. The IO’s were always professional. I always brought my condo lease and copies of the landlord’s ID but I don’t recall them ever asking to see them. There was never any hint of wanting a bribe. The IO’s were not friendly or unfriendly. They were serious about working through mountains of paperwork. For my first extension I didn’t have the bank letter so she wrote me a note to take to Kasikorn downstairs and I sorted it out. She was being helpful. The IO’s rarely said anything but when they did they weren’t rude.

 

I can only conclude that the OP was unlucky and is in a tough situation regarding his housing. With my multiple interactions at CW and those of everyone I knew in Bangkok for 6 years I don’t think this is a common occurrence. 

This is just about my 1 year anniversary of my LTR so CW in in my rear view mirror.

 

[Des1]

2 hours ago, MPoll said:

I did five OA extensions at CW myself. The IO’s were always professional. I always brought my condo lease and copies of the landlord’s ID but I don’t recall them ever asking to see them. There was never any hint of wanting a bribe. The IO’s were not friendly or unfriendly. They were serious about working through mountains of paperwork. For my first extension I didn’t have the bank letter so she wrote me a note to take to Kasikorn downstairs and I sorted it out. She was being helpful. The IO’s rarely said anything but when they did they weren’t rude.

 

I can only conclude that the OP was unlucky and is in a tough situation regarding his housing. With my multiple interactions at CW and those of everyone I knew in Bangkok for 6 years I don’t think this is a common occurrence. 

This is just about my 1 year anniversary of my LTR so CW in in my rear view mirror.

 

This last experience at CW (first non-imm O extension) was the only time I've had a problem. I agree that generally the IO's are helpful.

[likerdup1]

3 hours ago, MPoll said:

I did five OA extensions at CW myself. The IO’s were always professional. I always brought my condo lease and copies of the landlord’s ID but I don’t recall them ever asking to see them. There was never any hint of wanting a bribe. The IO’s were not friendly or unfriendly. They were serious about working through mountains of paperwork. For my first extension I didn’t have the bank letter so she wrote me a note to take to Kasikorn downstairs and I sorted it out. She was being helpful. The IO’s rarely said anything but when they did they weren’t rude.

 

I can only conclude that the OP was unlucky and is in a tough situation regarding his housing. With my multiple interactions at CW and those of everyone I knew in Bangkok for 6 years I don’t think this is a common occurrence. 

This is just about my 1 year anniversary of my LTR so CW in in my rear view mirror.

 

I had no problems in the past at CW. This is a recent occurrence at this particular desk. AND I BELIEVE A TREND. It looks as though that all appointments specifically for a retirement Non-O 1 year extension made online go to this desk. I made another appointment and again,was directed to L1 35.

 

So, if this is the case, (and it certainly looks to be) anyone making an appointment online for a retirement visa extension will face the two IO's at this desk. The female and senior male I/O behind her. Any expats applying at that desk will more than likely face the same scrutiny of their housing/residency documents as I and Des1 had.

 

Despite what has worked in the past for many on this board, it looks to be that things have changed. Where just a TM.30 and lease were enough (I was told that just the TM.30 and receipts of monthly payment should be sufficient) Now this desk is asking for a 1 year lease, Tabien Baan, House Deed and ID of owner . All copied and signed by owner.

 

It's wonderful we have reports of past fair treatment, but as they say in the finance world. Past performance does not guarantee future performance :-)

 

This appears to be a trend and in the spirit of helpfulness anyone with an appointment at that desk would do well to be prepared. IMHO.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by likerdup1