Is this the future for EV cars?

[HighPriority]

I suspect that you are correct, it'll be a hostage situation, though some yanks are still pushing the right to repair barrow I believe.

But again ev's dont require the maintenance that ice do and frankly the majority of people nowadays dont have the skills or interest to do their own repairs.

I myself detest working on cars, i do do it if required but I'd rather be doing almost anything else.

I also work, so I'm better off earning money and paying someone else to do it.

[DavisH]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Of course you don’t, but I do. D

In some recent news, an EV ran quickly from 20% charge to flat, stranding the driver. I would not recommend lettign a battery in an EV to get such a low level. 

[HighPriority]

8 minutes ago, DavisH said:

In some recent news, an EV ran quickly from 20% charge to flat, stranding the driver. I would not recommend lettign a battery in an EV to get such a low level. 

I haven't seen that, do you have a link ?

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That would be the ignorant folks who think buying a 'new' EV, would actually present a risk, more so than an ICEV.   A very false narrative.

 

The Neta V is 499k now, and quite the bargain.   Pretty sure (though haven't test driven), I'd take Neta V over any Legacy entry level ICE, including the Attrage w/1.2L engine (very sad).   Strictly for operating & maintenance cost savings alone.  Even styling & looks wise, I like it better.

 

Should provide a better ride, especially on TH's bumpy roads.  Neta V having double wishbone & multi link suspension vs struts & tension beam.  Geez ... come into the 21st Century already.  14" tyres...seriously.   Neta has 17" / 215/55

 

In the future, you should actually realize what things you are actually comparing.  At least you didn't state a Celerio would be better & cheaper.

 

5 yrs down the road, what will entry level ICEVs be worth ... that is also going to be a question mark, as who would want one in TH ?

 

Along with better performance: 

 

 

 

Hypothetical situation - the Attrage puts a piston through its' crankshaft. What does it cost to replace the engine, or get a reconditioned one?

The Neta battery decides to die, what does it cost to replace?

 

It's not so hypothetical a Nissan Leaf owner was quoted $40 K in Australia to replace a 6-7 yo battery that died out of warranty, on a vehicle that was $50 K new.

 

I am not arguing about which is better, the Neta specs clearly are. I am talking risks, which prudent people assess before a major purchase.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO EVs are ideal for cities with charging points readily available. For every other application IMO they are <deleted>.

 

I wonder how many they sell in the Aussie outback, or in Alaska.

And I don't think even in the city it will work on a big scale.

How many fast charging points are necessary to crash the existing electricity supply network?

And how about a couple of lithium fires in the "wrong" locations?

[quake]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

 

That deserves a  a second posting , 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Hypothetical situation - the Attrage puts a piston through its' crankshaft. What does it cost to replace the engine, or get a reconditioned one?

The Neta battery decides to die, what does it cost to replace?

 

It's not so hypothetical a Nissan Leaf owner was quoted $40 K in Australia to replace a 6-7 yo battery that died out of warranty, on a vehicle that was $50 K new.

 

I am not arguing about which is better, the Neta specs clearly are. I am talking risks, which prudent people assess before a major purchase.

Buying a overpriced Nissan Leaf ... you can't fix stupid.   

 

I suspect an ICEV with so many more moving parts, will leave me stranded before my EV.   We (MG ZS) have  the same as Neta V ...  an 8 year / 180k kms battery warranty, though we barely drive 20k kms a year.

 

LFP batter packs, conservatively, will last us for 900k kms, at the end of the warranty, I've already estimated a <5% degradation, if first year carries over for the next 7 years.   Most new battery packs, (model dependent) can be service by replacing 'battery modules' not the whole pack.

 

And you live with you choices, as you say ... "which prudent people assess before a major purchase."

 

All of this, you already know, as been posted many times, by multiple EV owners.   Why to you consistently keep banging on with the same repetitive, false narratives? 

 

 

Is this the Nissan Leaf story you are referring to, and if so ... you seem to have left out a few details:

"r/nzev

•3 yr. ago

 

I read this (haven’t fact checked but bloody interesting) - Nissan Leaf – a real story from Australia. Just wondering what the thoughts of the community are?

Phillip Carlson bought a Nissan Leaf in August 2012, which cost about $53,500. Its seven years old today, and it’s worth maybe $12,000 - if you can find someone dumb enough to buy it. But, let him tell the story.

 

“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. >From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.

 

“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!!

 

Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.” - Phillip Carlson"

[HighPriority]

I guess if we took the story at face value we'd all be pretty shattered but I wonder what the real story is ?

[Adumbration]

On 12/31/2023 at 3:38 PM, kwak250 said:

Yes me too.

Problem now is they are not as easy to work on as the older cars.

My car is nearly 40 years old.  I do all the work on it myself.  I have owned it nearly 20 years.  I have offers to buy it most days when I take it out.

 

I have absolutely no intention to buy a new car in Thailand.  Too much tax, poor mechanics, and risk of being hit by someone without insurance.  With the new tax laws I have also stopped remitting any money into this country.  So absolutely no chance of me buying a new car now.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

I guess if we took the story at face value we'd all be pretty shattered but I wonder what the real story is ?

since it has a negative spin to begin with, I'm guessing Nissan did offer him $33k for what one person thought was worth only $12k.   Which was out of warranty & not defective.   Think they went well over what I'd expect for compensation for buying one of their early crappy Leafs.  Todays THB, he could have had a new Leaf for only 400k THB, so not bad for a car that sold for $50k AUD in 2019, that would be 1.2M baht today.

[Foscarman]

Ford has not stopped there EV production. Ford have made joint venture with VW for technology and EV production factorys. 2023 Ford launch the Mustang E on the european market. This year they will launch a smallere crossover and a bigger SUV. Ford plan to be 100% Electric by 2030 in Europe. 

[Lacessit]

53 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Buying a overpriced Nissan Leaf ... you can't fix stupid.   

 

I suspect an ICEV with so many more moving parts, will leave me stranded before my EV.   We (MG ZS) have  the same as Neta V ...  an 8 year / 180k kms battery warranty, though we barely drive 20k kms a year.

 

LFP batter packs, conservatively, will last us for 900k kms, at the end of the warranty, I've already estimated a <5% degradation, if first year carries over for the next 7 years.   Most new battery packs, (model dependent) can be service by replacing 'battery modules' not the whole pack.

 

And you live with you choices, as you say ... "which prudent people assess before a major purchase."

 

All of this, you already know, as been posted many times, by multiple EV owners.   Why to you consistently keep banging on with the same repetitive, false narratives? 

 

 

Is this the Nissan Leaf story you are referring to, and if so ... you seem to have left out a few details:

"r/nzev

•3 yr. ago

 

I read this (haven’t fact checked but bloody interesting) - Nissan Leaf – a real story from Australia. Just wondering what the thoughts of the community are?

Phillip Carlson bought a Nissan Leaf in August 2012, which cost about $53,500. Its seven years old today, and it’s worth maybe $12,000 - if you can find someone dumb enough to buy it. But, let him tell the story.

 

“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. >From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.

 

“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!!

 

Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.” - Phillip Carlson"

I asked you how much it would cost to fix an Attrage with a blown motor, compared with a Neta with a blown battery. You obviously did not want to go there.

You then proceed to tout the virtues of an MG EV which costs 1.1 million baht. It's a bit of a shift in the goalposts from a budget Neta.

You keep banging on, I'll do the same. Get used to it.

[KhunLA]

37 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I asked you how much it would cost to fix an Attrage with a blown motor, compared with a Neta with a blown battery. You obviously did not want to go there.

You then proceed to tout the virtues of an MG EV which costs 1.1 million baht. It's a bit of a shift in the goalposts from a budget Neta.

You keep banging on, I'll do the same. Get used to it.

I'm not going to try to answer either one, as I don't know.  I simply stated what we have, but gave you the specs for the Neta V, (since you used as a comparison) which now knowing the specs, you agree a better vehicle to own, all around and cheaper.

 

If your buying a new Attrage, and worry about blowing a rod/piston, you might won't to consider a different purchase.   When we bought the EV, we had no concerns about the battery or motors crapping out, within the next 20 years.  Chance of that happening are quit slim, I believe.  Would be the exception, not the rule.

 

Nobody know the resell price of either, Attrage or Neta in 5+ years.   Neta might be worth very little with all the newer tech and larger batteries, assuming they'll be in demand.   Attrage may also be worth very little as many might not want ICEVs any more.  Location dependent of course.

 

I know we'll probably never want to sell our ZS.  Lots of EV to chose out there, seem to be better quality/specs than ICEVs for about same price.   BYD Dolphin, 699k, MG EP, still 771k, MG4 769k, ZS now 859k.  I can only talk about what I know, or have seen.

 

10th most selling BEV last month, Wuling Air @ 399k, I think.  low price = low specs.

 

Don't know what your point is, as I state what I know, from research or personal experience.  You post heresy & what if scenarios.   I can't reply to them, my crystal ball is on the blink.

 

I didn't tout the virtues of our ZS, just the tech/LFP battery, which many new BEVs have, including the Neta V.  Also by CATL, so would imagine, also battery module replacement if an issue.

 

I await your next silly reply, but please, current facts & info, if wanting to discuss something.  Stop with the heresy & what ifs.

[Bandersnatch]

2 hours ago, DavisH said:

In some recent news, an EV ran quickly from 20% charge to flat, stranding the driver. I would not recommend lettign a battery in an EV to get such a low level. 

 

I own 2 EVs and have driven tens of thousands of miles in EVs and never experienced anything but a predictable drop in range. I have the range display as "Dynamic" so it reacts in real time to your driving style. 

[Bandersnatch]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Some folks are doing the math, and concluding the extra cost of an EV does not warrant the risk.

The cheapest EV in Thailand is the Neta, at 549K baht. The Mitsubishi Attrage is 529 K, so they are comparable. Other EV's are considerably more expensive

What is not known is the after-sales service and resale price of a Neta 5 years down the track. OTOH, Mitsubishi make good if somewhat under-rated vehicles. The brand is a known quantity.

 

I bought my wife a Suzuki Swift to learn to drive in, (her choice not mine) it was a god awful car, very rough ride and every bump went straight through you. After a year she had passed her test and we tried to get shot of the swift. We had paid ฿550,000 for the car new and after six months of trying to sell it we finally accepted ฿320,000. So don't tell me EVs make bad investments and ICE cars are great.

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I own 2 EVs and have driven tens of thousands of miles in EVs and never experienced anything but a predictable drop in range. I have the range display as "Dynamic" so it reacts in real time to your driving style. 

Ditto, and our MG ZS is real time, range estimate, and extremely accurate.  I've compared the 2 different 'count downs', battery / kms estimate vs odometer reading.  They match up perfectly, unless on a very hilly area, in which the regen will actually add kms to the battery/kms range estimate vs odometer subtracting actual kms travelled. 

 

It's to the point now, I know how many kms I get per 1% of battery or actual kWh, depending on car's speed/kph.  I match the cars estimate damn close to exactly.   Twice I've returned home with exactly 20% battery remaining, and my target for returning home.  Impressed even me.

 

It really doesn't take much thought/planning.  Actually less so than our ICE version, as I preferred E85, and that was harder to find than CSs ... 

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:32 PM, Gweiloman said:

The one statement you made that I agree with is that BMW EVs are no good.

 

On AutoEV Youtube channel the BWM i7 just won luxury EV of the year and the BMW i5 won the best EV saloon so they must be doing something right.

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I bought my wife a Suzuki Swift to learn to drive in, (her choice not mine) it was a god awful car, very rough ride and every bump went straight through you. After a year she had passed her test and we tried to get shot of the swift. We had paid ฿550,000 for the car new and after six months of trying to sell it we finally accepted ฿320,000. So don't tell me EVs make bad investments and ICE cars are great.

Any depreciating asset is a bad investment, that's Investing 101.

How many km did you have on the Swift? IMO CVT transmissions make for faster depreciation.

I don't know whether EV's are good or bad investments. They haven't been around long enough to make that determination.

My 2006 Vios has depreciated by about 15,000 baht/year since I bought it about 8 years ago. Has not missed a beat, and I still see a lot of those on Thai roads.

[Bandersnatch]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am not an EV hater. They have considerable advantages in some aspects of operation, such as running cost, acceleration, and reduction of air pollution in cities. I have repeatedly said so.

Because I also post information on some of the EV downsides, I am an infidel to EV worshippers.

 

Spout some numbers of your own to disprove my claim only 20% ( at best ) of ICE's can be replaced by EV's, with current lithium reserves being mined. Please don't go with extracting lithium from seawater, that is thermodynamic bullsh!t. We would have done it decades ago with gold if it was technically/economically feasible.

 

"Because I also post information on some of the EV downsides, I am an infidel to EV worshippers"

Post what you want but back it up with references from reputable sources  - nobody is interest in your uninformed opinions without citations.

 

"Spout some numbers of your own to disprove my claim only 20% ( at best ) of ICE's can be replaced by EV's, with current lithium reserves being mined."

 

The numbers you spouted are without any references and so are worthless.

 

Before the EV boom there was very little demand for Lithium outside being a mood stabilizer - have you tried it?

 

EV demand ramped, prices for lithium rose, more supplies came online, the prices stabilized.

 

  

 

 

"Please don't go with extracting lithium from seawater, that is thermodynamic bullsh!t. We would have done it decades ago with gold if it was technically/economically feasible."

 

"technology that uses solar energy to extract lithium from seawater won first prize at a Princeton innovation showcase. The system has demonstrated an improvement of more than ten times the standard rate of extraction from brine"

https://environmenthalfcentury.princeton.edu/research/2023/new-lithium-extraction-technology-wins-first-prize-innovation-forum

 

So who do we trust not to be a bullsh!ter Princeton University or @Lacessit

 

How about something from Yale?

https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-water-scarcity-increases-desalination-plants-are-on-the-rise

 

The output from desalination plants is concentrated brine with a far higher percentage of Lithium than normal seawater.

 

I could go on.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I'm not going to try to answer either one, as I don't know.  I simply stated what we have, but gave you the specs for the Neta V, (since you used as a comparison) which now knowing the specs, you agree a better vehicle to own, all around and cheaper.

 

If your buying a new Attrage, and worry about blowing a rod/piston, you might won't to consider a different purchase.   When we bought the EV, we had no concerns about the battery or motors crapping out, within the next 20 years.  Chance of that happening are quit slim, I believe.  Would be the exception, not the rule.

 

Nobody know the resell price of either, Attrage or Neta in 5+ years.   Neta might be worth very little with all the newer tech and larger batteries, assuming they'll be in demand.   Attrage may also be worth very little as many might not want ICEVs any more.  Location dependent of course.

 

I know we'll probably never want to sell our ZS.  Lots of EV to chose out there, seem to be better quality/specs than ICEVs for about same price.   BYD Dolphin, 699k, MG EP, still 771k, MG4 769k, ZS now 859k.  I can only talk about what I know, or have seen.

 

10th most selling BEV last month, Wuling Air @ 399k, I think.  low price = low specs.

 

Don't know what your point is, as I state what I know, from research or personal experience.  You post heresy & what if scenarios.   I can't reply to them, my crystal ball is on the blink.

 

I didn't tout the virtues of our ZS, just the tech/LFP battery, which many new BEVs have, including the Neta V.  Also by CATL, so would imagine, also battery module replacement if an issue.

 

I await your next silly reply, but please, current facts & info, if wanting to discuss something.  Stop with the heresy & what ifs.

Interesting you should use the term heresy, it is normally applied by religious adherents.

When you use the terms silly and ignorant, it is an ad hominem attack. Quite commonly employed by people who can't debate issues honestly.

You are wrong about people not wanting ICE's, When EV's can only replace about 20% of existing ICE's, they will want them because there is no alternative.

What facts do you have indicating my 20% figure is incorrect?

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Interesting you should use the term heresy, it is normally applied by religious adherents.

When you use the terms silly and ignorant, it is an ad hominem attack. Quite commonly employed by people who can't debate issues honestly.

You are wrong about people not wanting ICE's, When EV's can only replace about 20% of existing ICE's, they will want them because there is no alternative.

What facts do you have indicating my 20% figure is incorrect?

This is why a conversation with you in meaningless at times.

 

heresy should be hearsay, a little auto correct going on with lack of proofreading...oops  That 2nd BS (incomplete, if same) story you pushed about the Leaf.

 

A discussion on hearsay & what ifs, yes, they are silly.   And the ignorance expressed by many non EV owners or even researching what one is talking about is a bit mind boggling.   I try to stick to the facts and personal experiences, w/links if I think needed.

 

Taking my words out of context, 'wanting ICEVs in the 'future', and as I 'suggested', nobody can predict what will happen, including your 20% figure.  I have no facts to say you are wrong, as you have none to it's accurate.  To ask for facts is pure silliness.

 

That crystal ball thing again.  Let's stick with the present and facts.  Not old tech of older models, that served their purpose, but are crap by today's standards.  That's both EVs & ICEVs.

 

I loved my ICEVs, though not really a car person, but had some enjoyable vehicles.

 

Love our EVs, and consider them better, in every way,   From experience.  I couldn't go back to owning any ICEV.

 

Obviously we can't explain it to ICEV owners, as simply ignorant, since never owning or even test driving.

 

Ignorant = lacking knowledge or awareness, not an insult.  Stupid would be an insult.

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

"Because I also post information on some of the EV downsides, I am an infidel to EV worshippers"

Post what you want but back it up with references from reputable sources  - nobody is interest in your uninformed opinions without citations.

 

"Spout some numbers of your own to disprove my claim only 20% ( at best ) of ICE's can be replaced by EV's, with current lithium reserves being mined."

 

The numbers you spouted are without any references and so are worthless.

 

Before the EV boom there was very little demand for Lithium outside being a mood stabilizer - have you tried it?

 

EV demand ramped, prices for lithium rose, more supplies came online, the prices stabilized.

 

  

 

 

"Please don't go with extracting lithium from seawater, that is thermodynamic bullsh!t. We would have done it decades ago with gold if it was technically/economically feasible."

 

"technology that uses solar energy to extract lithium from seawater won first prize at a Princeton innovation showcase. The system has demonstrated an improvement of more than ten times the standard rate of extraction from brine"

https://environmenthalfcentury.princeton.edu/research/2023/new-lithium-extraction-technology-wins-first-prize-innovation-forum

 

So who do we trust not to be a bullsh!ter Princeton University or @Lacessit

 

How about something from Yale?

https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-water-scarcity-increases-desalination-plants-are-on-the-rise

 

The output from desalination plants is concentrated brine with a far higher percentage of Lithium than normal seawater.

 

I could go on.

 

 

 

 

 

You obviously understand very little about technology development.

 

An extraction technology is first demonstrated at Princeton University on a laboratory scale, and wins a prize. Be still my fluttering heart.

The next step is a pilot plant, to prove the technology can be scaled up with an acceptable loss of efficiency.

After exhaustive analysis, funding is found to build a full scale production plant. How long do you think this process will take? My bet is on 7 - 10 years.

How many of those plants are needed to completely replace ICE's?

 

Science and technology are full of blind alleys. Laboratory yield and performance have a bad habit of declining when exposed to commercial reality.

The latest example is Carbon Capture and Storage ( CCS ). There is not a single plant on the planet that is operating to specification. It's a hoax.

 

Please do go on, you occasionally post interesting stuff.

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

This is why a conversation with you in meaningless at times.

 

heresy should be hearsay, a little auto correct going on with lack of proofreading...oops  That 2nd BS (incomplete, if same) story you pushed about the Leaf.

 

A discussion on hearsay & what ifs, yes, they are silly.   And the ignorance expressed by many non EV owners or even researching what one is talking about is a bit mind boggling.   I try to stick to the facts and personal experiences, w/links if I think needed.

 

Taking my words out of context, 'wanting ICEVs in the 'future', and as I 'suggested', nobody can predict what will happen, including your 20% figure.  I have no facts to say you are wrong, as you have none to it's accurate.  To ask for facts is pure silliness.

 

That crystal ball thing again.  Let's stick with the present and facts.  Not old tech of older models, that served their purpose, but are crap by today's standards.  That's both EVs & ICEVs.

 

I loved my ICEVs, though not really a car person, but had some enjoyable vehicles.

 

Love our EVs, and consider them better, in every way,   From experience.  I couldn't go back to owning any ICEV.

 

Obviously we can't explain it to ICEV owners, as simply ignorant, since never owning or even test driving.

 

Ignorant = lacking knowledge or awareness, not an insult.  Stupid would be an insult.

I'm to blame because you are too lazy to spellcheck/proofread what you write? 

It's a matter of simple calculation of the amount of lithium currently being mined, and estimated proved reserves, to arrive at a 20% figure. Which I have said is probably generous.

You are happy with what you have, so am I. Calling me ignorant is ignorant in itself.

 

[Bandersnatch]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The latest example is Carbon Capture and Storage ( CCS ). There is not a single plant on the planet that is operating to specification. It's a hoax.

 

Finally something I agree with

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Sadly, from experience, owning and with ICEV only, yea, I've been that stupid, and ran out of petrol.   In my younger days, from simply not realizing/noticing and or forgetting to get petrol, to, sadly, 'oh hell, I cam make it' ... oops, F'me 

 

Pretty sure that will never happen with the EV, as the car gives you way too many warnings @ 30%, 20% both visual and audio. 

Not sure how old your last ICE vehicle was, but there are plenty of warnings in modern cars. My ICE has the number of remaining fuel miles visible at all times, and I get warnings (visual and annoying bong sounds) when it drops below certain levels. 

[kwak250]

I see this thread hs got even worse since last week.

Comparing a Nito or neto ev to a Mitsubishi mirage now.

I know what looks better although there isn't a lot in it.

Both are probably good around town but the Mirage would be what I would take if I absolutely had to choose without a doubt. 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'm to blame because you are too lazy to spellcheck/proofread what you write? 

It's a matter of simple calculation of the amount of lithium currently being mined, and estimated proved reserves, to arrive at a 20% figure. Which I have said is probably generous.

You are happy with what you have, so am I. Calling me ignorant is ignorant in itself.

 

I can only go by what you post, and some of it shows a bit of ignorance.   Not a totally bad thing, as I was ignorant about all things EV just a couple years ago.  Assuming so in your case, as you don't come off as a stupid person.  Others, I can't say the same, why I don't reply to them, as simply hopeless.

 

All these people stating, generalizing, battery packs need to be replaced, in a few year, and only the whole pack, and or won't last long.  That comes down to pure ignorance.  Most current production electric motors & battery packs (LFP), will probably outlast the cars they are in. 

 

There is an abundance of lithium, and surely more to be found.  Mining it fast enough to keep up with demand might be an issue in the future.  That's IF, lithium will be the go to chemistry in 5-10 yrs, as EVs may be powered by something else in the not so distant future.

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Not sure how old your last ICE vehicle was, but there are plenty of warnings in modern cars. My ICE has the number of remaining fuel miles visible at all times, and I get warnings (visual and annoying bong sounds) when it drops below certain levels. 

as I stated ... in my younger days.   Can't remember last time I ran out of petrol.

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

I see this thread hs got even worse since last week.

Comparing a Nito or neto ev to a Mitsubishi mirage now.

I know what looks better although there isn't a lot in it.

Both are probably good around town but the Mirage would be what I would take if I absolutely had to choose without a doubt. 

You might want to shop by specs, and not looks.  I posted a few, and the Attrage was mentioned, not the Mirage, which is even worse than the Attrage.

[CG1 Blue]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

as I stated ... in my younger days.   Can't remember last time I ran out of petrol.

Ok, it sounded like you were suggesting these warnings are only in EVs, citing that as an advantage over ICEVs