Morch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: A conspiracy theory. Journalists are commonly embedded in one army or another on the understand they will be protected by that force. @ozimoron Hamas is an 'army' now, in your mind? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Morch said: If there is an injunction given (even a relatively minor one, say regarding safe entry of aid), how would it 'not affect' Israel's war effort? All the more so if the injunction is more heavy weight? What you see from Israeli right wing ministers and politicians is Netanyahu's own political games coming to roost. A few years ago some of these players were in the backbenches or even political pariahs. Political and personal necessities made him normalize them, up to a point where his control of his minions is slipping. It's actually amazing that they are still at it - the other day, there was a poster who called Netanyahu a 'tyrant' - what kind of 'tyrant' can't make his underlings put a sock in it? Int'l Court of Justice unlikely to order Gaza cease-fire, Justice Ministry officials tell Haaretz https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-11/ty-article-live/ahead-of-world-court-hearing-netanyahu-rejects-calls-for-gaza-population-transfer/0000018c-f676-dd68-a3cf-f6feba5b0000?liveBlogItemId=531092950#531092950 These three injunction scenarios raise further issues and questions: (a) Letting in more aid - doable, but how can be guaranteed it would be properly distributed? That convoys won't be hijacked by Hamas? Or used by Hamas to mask movements? Given Israel's scaling down of operations, some of that could be implemented as before (timed 'pauses' etc.), but it's just a matter of time before something will go wrong. (b) An investigation? By whom? Who will they investigate and how? What powers does such an inquiry have anyway (I suspect none)? (c) Gazans returning to the North of the Strip? To where? A whole lot of homes are destroyed, infrastructure is a mess, operations still going on. Not sure what's the value of this other than PR. Without some form of sustained rehabilitation (which can only come post-war) this might as well make things even worse, more complicated. As for (d) Stop the war - and then what? Leave the hostages in Hamas hands? Let Hamas re-arm? Smuggle hostages out of the Gaza Strip? The main problem I see with any injunction that might be given is that it's just a patch, a feelgood measure, a PR effort. Nothing the ICJ got on offer really addresses the issues. Edited January 11 by Morch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 19 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: They have yet to investigate that. Hardly have time to submit it tomorrow. The issue is Netanyahu's reaction to the charge and the charge itself, not when it's going to be submitted. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Expect an interim injunction to cease hostilities today. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 4 minutes ago, placeholder said: The issue is Netanyahu's reaction to the charge and the charge itself, not when it's going to be submitted. What charge, has their been an investigation completed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Just now, Bkk Brian said: What charge, has their been an investigation completed? "Charge" can simply mean an accusation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, placeholder said: "Charge" can simply mean an accusation. Complaint might have been a better choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: "Charge" can simply mean an accusation. yea ok.....lol How does that work out with the quote you posted and which is the part I highlighted and responded to? Starvation as a war crime has never been prosecuted, she says, but her organization has produced a report arguing it is happening in South Sudan and she wants her group to be allowed to conduct an independent investigation in Gaza." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Danny Australia Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 So ironic that 75 years after the genocide convention was adopted because of the Holocaust, it’s Israel in the dock today facing genocide accusations. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: yea ok.....lol How does that work out with the quote you posted and which is the part I highlighted and responded to? Starvation as a war crime has never been prosecuted, she says, but her organization has produced a report arguing it is happening in South Sudan and she wants her group to be allowed to conduct an independent investigation in Gaza." It addresses a theoretical basis for charging Israel with war crimes. And since it involves widespread starvation, it clearly touches on the issue of genocide. 1 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 23 minutes ago, placeholder said: It addresses a theoretical basis for charging Israel with war crimes. And since it involves widespread starvation, it clearly touches on the issue of genocide. Oh right, they haven't investigated but they would like to. Got it, thanks, however that's enough for your the theoretical basis for charging Israel with war crimes. Edited January 11 by Bkk Brian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcarer Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, ozimoron said: Expect an interim injunction to cease hostilities today. Sounds bias to me. Israel does not put its case till tomorrow. I don’t expect the judges not want to hear their defense to this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Just now, coolcarer said: Sounds bias to me. Israel does not put its case till tomorrow. I don’t expect the judges not want to hear their defense to this. It may be tomorrow but an interim injunction doesn't reply on a judgement. It needs only to be reasonable cause. The evidence of either side might be sufficient for the court to make that injunction. Injunctions are often applied by courts before both sides are heard. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcarer Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: It may be tomorrow but an interim injunction doesn't reply on a judgement. It needs only to be reasonable cause. The evidence of either side might be sufficient for the court to make that injunction. Injunctions are often applied by courts before both sides are heard. It’s called a provisional measure and yes it relies on a judgement decision based on the majority of the 15 or 16 judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 9 minutes ago, coolcarer said: It’s called a provisional measure and yes it relies on a judgement decision based on the majority of the 15 or 16 judges. after hearing the complaint. It isn't a judgement, it's an injunction edit: It is expected to rule on the emergency measures later this month. The court will not rule at that time on the genocide allegations - those proceedings could take years. Edited January 11 by ozimoron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcarer Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: after hearing the complaint. It isn't a judgement, it's an injunction After hearing the SA case followed by the Israel defense case tomorrow. Again the term is provisional measure UN court hears South Africa genocide case against Israel https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67942983 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcarer Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 8 minutes ago, ozimoron said: after hearing the complaint. It isn't a judgement, it's an injunction edit: It is expected to rule on the emergency measures later this month. The court will not rule at that time on the genocide allegations - those proceedings could take years. Nice edit. So out the window goes your expectation for today. Yes we all know it will be years before final ruling. It’s been posted at least 4 times in the last few hours 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Danny Australia Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 This is a historical day for sure, I am watching the South Africa's genocide case live on Al Jazeera Glad to see that some of my previously removed videos on AN are now displayed as part of the SA case for the entire world to see. Thank you South Africa for standing up to the US and Israel's pressure and pressing ahead with genocide case. 2 3 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, Danny Australia said: This is a historical day for sure, I am watching the South Africa's genocide case live on Al Jazeera Glad to see that some of my previously removed videos on AN are now displayed as part of the SA case for the entire world to see. Thank you South Africa for standing up to the US and Israel's pressure and pressing ahead with genocide case. What videos would that be then. They've not started presenting evidence yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 hours ago, placeholder said: It addresses a theoretical basis for charging Israel with war crimes. And since it involves widespread starvation, it clearly touches on the issue of genocide. How many Palestinians have died of starvation? What should Israel be doing differently? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ozimoron Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Just listening to the case and it seems A PR campaign from South Africa. If Israel can take the 'apartheid' title then maybe people will forget South Africa history. Im watching the Hague live, and it keeps saying 'could amount to genocide' They are not saying 'this definitely is an example of genocide' I know the case is not concluded, but they are making a claim, that Israel is committing genocide, so they would say that. All they have as evidence is 'could amount to genocide' Anyone familiar with the recent history of South Africa? Anyone heard of the huge amount of civilian deaths? Targeting white people, Boers staffies as well as newer white farmers? What did the state of South Africa do to stop this? The killing of one group, one class of people. That could amount to genocide. Like Germany taking in all the Syrian refugees in 2015, for PR 'look how nice we are now!' (as well as to have people to tax when the ageing population outnumbers the workers..)Is this the same motivation for South Africa? 'Look how non apartheid we are now guys!? These guys are definitely worse, totally doing stuff that Could Amount to genocide!!' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 A few weeks old, but pretty good... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, Danny Australia said: So ironic that 75 years after the genocide convention was adopted because of the Holocaust, it’s Israel in the dock today facing genocide accusations. Bought to Court by South Africa , who have a very recent history and ongoing genocide against its White Farmers . It would be funny if Israel took South Africa to the ICC for its genocide against its White population Edited January 11 by Nick Carter icp 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 19 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Bought to Court by South Africa , who have a very recent history and ongoing genocide against its White Farmers . It would be funny if Israel took South Africa to the ICC for its genocide against its White population really? In 1987, white farmers owned 81% of the land. now White farmers own almost three-quarters of South Africa's agricultural land, even after 23 years of government efforts to redistribute land to the black majority, City Press reported, citing a land audit by farm lobbying group Agri SA. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Danny Australia Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: Just listening to the case and it seems A PR campaign from South Africa. If Israel can take the 'apartheid' title then maybe people will forget South Africa history. Im watching the Hague live, and it keeps saying 'could amount to genocide' They are not saying 'this definitely is an example of genocide' I know the case is not concluded, but they are making a claim, that Israel is committing genocide, so they would say that. All they have as evidence is 'could amount to genocide' Anyone familiar with the recent history of South Africa? Anyone heard of the huge amount of civilian deaths? Targeting white people, Boers staffies as well as newer white farmers? What did the state of South Africa do to stop this? The killing of one group, one class of people. That could amount to genocide. Like Germany taking in all the Syrian refugees in 2015, for PR 'look how nice we are now!' (as well as to have people to tax when the ageing population outnumbers the workers..)Is this the same motivation for South Africa? 'Look how non apartheid we are now guys!? These guys are definitely worse, totally doing stuff that Could Amount to genocide!!' South Africa is not facing genocide accusations though, Israel is. The smear campaign against South Africa won't work. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Horrifying statistics 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 9 minutes ago, bannork said: Horrifying statistics Was there any mention of the hostages still being held and when they will be released ? Will the Palestinians be willing to give up the Oct 7 th mass murderers and baby killers and rapists and war criminals ? If they did that , the Israeli retaliation in Gaza could well end 1 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 hours ago, Danny Australia said: South Africa is not facing genocide accusations though, Israel is. The smear campaign against South Africa won't work. No smear campaign against SA just the reality of its bias, this article from 16th Nov before it even decided to bring the case: South Africa's Government Is an Unapologetic, Shameless Proxy for Hamas and Iran A pornographic, sycophantic romance between government ministers and Hamas leaders, a warm embrace for Iran, explicit calls to attack Jews, our homes, our workplaces, our schools. We South African Jews wonder if our own government is inciting pogroms against us. Following the slaughter of more than 1,200 Israelis, most of them civilians, by Hamas terrorists, the kidnapping of 239 hostages into Gaza, and the onset of the latest Israel-Hamas war, there has been a sharp and frightening increase in antisemitic rhetoric and threatened violence around the world. But South African Jews are confronting a far more sinister and almost unique challenge: Our government has emerged as an unapologetic, shameless proxy for Hamas and Iran. https://archive.ph/QreGb https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-11-16/ty-article-opinion/.premium/south-africas-government-is-an-unapologetic-shameless-proxy-for-hamas-and-iran/0000018b-d7d9-dffa-adef-f7d979970000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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