PART 2 Thai Wife Being Bullied By Family

[Bday Prang]

20 minutes ago, stoner said:

 

wouldn't want to experience some of that tight knit thai family love now would we. 

That's one way of putting it, 

[thefarangteacher]

4 minutes ago, thesetat said:

Many Thai parents have a lack of understanding what exactly is sinsod. In reality it is a show of money that you are able to care for the woman financially. But in the North they consider it a payment for their child so they can keep the money. That sinsod should be going into a bank account under your wifes name or both your names. It is security that the woman can live if you choose to divorce her. https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/dowry-in-thailand#:~:text=“Sin Sod”%2C or Thai,expected in the Thai culture.

In my traditional Thai marriage, I showed almost 100,000 in cash and gold. Showed is the key word here. This sinsod was placed by the family under our bed because they just wanted to see that I was able to gather money to care for my wife if needed. The family had no interest to keep it. Showing the sinsod was only for the neighbors to see so the family would save face. In the North the Thai twisted it as a payment for their child. Which is not true. You could try telling the family you will show your ability to take care of their child but the family can not keep the sinsod because it is for your wifes security. This is culture in Thailand. The North because so many are poor think sinsod is about paying the family for their daughter same you would pay a mamasan for the bar girl to keep her long time haha..  If you do not want the family to see cash... Show a bank book page haha.. That would really burn them up to be so close to getting all that money and then only find a bank book showing it is inaccessible hmm. But in all reality, the family does lose face if there is nothing shown during the wedding. The hostility will never end unless you find a solution. It will make bigger problems for you with your woman in the future as well. Many foreigners are telling you to show strength. Stand up for yourself. They are correct that if you show weakness then the family will control you through your wife. Also, something to think about would be moving away only far enough that you do not need to deal with the family on a daily basis or their neighbors seeing you together. Just remember one thing. Although you have a good relationship with your wife to be. She is still going to keep her parents as #1. At best you will be # 3 or 4 in her life concerns. So you need to make sure your in-laws discontinue their harassment of her about this. If not then you will suffer the consequences in the future and lose her. 

What you say makes a lot of sense. However, my wife has told her family repeatedly that I take great care of her and that she wants for nothing. But apparently that’s not sufficient; the sinsod must still be paid. Which is why I think it’s just about getting more and more money. 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, thesetat said:

Many Thai parents have a lack of understanding what exactly is sinsod. In reality it is a show of money that you are able to care for the woman financially. But in the North they consider it a payment for their child so they can keep the money. That sinsod should be going into a bank account under your wifes name or both your names. It is security that the woman can live if you choose to divorce her. https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/dowry-in-thailand#:~:text=“Sin Sod”%2C or Thai,expected in the Thai culture.

In my traditional Thai marriage, I showed almost 100,000 in cash and gold. Showed is the key word here. This sinsod was placed by the family under our bed because they just wanted to see that I was able to gather money to care for my wife if needed. The family had no interest to keep it. Showing the sinsod was only for the neighbors to see so the family would save face. In the North the Thai twisted it as a payment for their child. Which is not true. You could try telling the family you will show your ability to take care of their child but the family can not keep the sinsod because it is for your wifes security. This is culture in Thailand. The North because so many are poor think sinsod is about paying the family for their daughter same you would pay a mamasan for the bar girl to keep her long time haha..  If you do not want the family to see cash... Show a bank book page haha.. That would really burn them up to be so close to getting all that money and then only find a bank book showing it is inaccessible hmm. But in all reality, the family does lose face if there is nothing shown during the wedding. The hostility will never end unless you find a solution. It will make bigger problems for you with your woman in the future as well. Many foreigners are telling you to show strength. Stand up for yourself. They are correct that if you show weakness then the family will control you through your wife. Also, something to think about would be moving away only far enough that you do not need to deal with the family on a daily basis or their neighbors seeing you together. Just remember one thing. Although you have a good relationship with your wife to be. She is still going to keep her parents as #1. At best you will be # 3 or 4 in her life concerns. So you need to make sure your in-laws discontinue their harassment of her about this. If not then you will suffer the consequences in the future and lose her. 

It does not say that in the article you linked to. 

[SAFETY FIRST]

15 hours ago, thefarangteacher said:

The comments from my topic last year were very helpful so I thought I’d share this other problem

Money should make this problem go away but I take from your name, you are a school teacher, that there is no money to throw at this problem. 

 

So, move back to your home country with your wife, problem solved. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

That is indeed what people say   but in Thailand,  money is a damn sight thicker than blood, in case you haven't noticed

I hadn't noticed. 

[advancebooking]

I think OP married a bar girl or similar low occupation. 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, advancebooking said:

I think OP married a bar girl or similar low occupation. 

What is that thinking based on?

[novacova]

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But you would happily demand she forfeit her principles.

I never imposed any conditions 

 

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What is the principle that is compromised by paying the parents sinsod? 

There were no compromises, given that neither I or my wife weren’t going to compromise with her aunt. Though no one put up a fuss about it. Besides she didn’t really want my money, their family owns most of the businesses in the area, I think she was testing me on some level. Anyway it was a good opportunity for me to make it clear that I don’t like talking about my finances with anyone for any reason.

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, advancebooking said:

I think OP married a bar girl or similar low occupation. 

That has nothing to do with anything, but no doubt you feel a little bit better having made such a snobbish assumption

[Yellowtail]

15 minutes ago, thefarangteacher said:

It’s the “we don’t live in the dark ages, my wife is not property that must be bought in exchange for money” principle. 

And that makes disregarding your wife's culture acceptable. 

 

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What is that thinking based on?

On an inflated sense of self importance, and quite possibly a lack of information regarding his own wife's past,   and the false belief that she learnt to speak english in primary school

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

That has nothing to do with anything, but no doubt you feel a little bit better having made such a snobbish assumption

Actually it does, per my understanding, and substantiated by the link above, "...if the bride is “spoiled or ruined” (Mia Maiy), no Thai dowry will be required, as well as if she comes along with her children of a former marriage."

[Bday Prang]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Actually it does, per my understanding, and substantiated by the link above, "...if the bride is “spoiled or ruined” (Mia Maiy), no Thai dowry will be required, as well as if she comes along with her children of a former marriage."

Not strictly true and certainly not applicable in practice when a westerner is involved.   You really should not base your "understandings"   on links from the internet, they substantiate nothing especially concerning matters of this nature

 

Any way come on How much did you pay ?   Or are you now embarrassed to say , now that you realise its not compulsory?

Maybe you were exempted due to the reasons you quoted above ?

[The Theory]

14 hours ago, BangkokHank said:

Tell them that in your culture, it's normal for the girl's family to pay the dowry - so where's your money?

A great idea, 🤔 but they live in Thailand 😆

[Bday Prang]

To the OP  you have referred to pressure from the wife's "family"  is it just her mother and father making these demands, or are other family members involving themselves ?    Also do you currently  live in the same house as them ?   If so the atmosphere must be strained to say the least, and you really should consider moving out , perhaps you could move a bit closer to work

[Chris Daley]

A wife is a bargirl, maid and personal chef.  Pay the money Scrooge.

[Bangkok Barry]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

A couple of years ago, I had a culture clash with my GF. Our dog was dying slowly and painfully from cancer. I wanted to do the merciful thing, and get him euthanased. She said no, against her religion.

 

Strange how their religion demands that someone or someone should suffer, isn't it. But I suppose it's the same in those countries where assisted dying is illegal, although how much religious beliefs play in that I'm not sure. Probably deep down it does.

[Iamloki]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

2,000 baht a month is not generous, esp from a farang.

Actually, I had the same thought. Of course, we are all limited by our means. I'm a little older, so when I think of marrying a Thai woman... she is not 18 years old, she is not a virgin, she probably has kids, she is probably divorced, she has already had her "bride price" paid in the past...

 

The sin sod is a negotiation... I would ask myself, regardless of my Western reflex of holding onto my money at all costs (including the relationship with my future wife)... from the Thai perspective... what value can be attached to the family's "loss of a daughter"... Is she a 2mil thb princess, a 200K hottie from a wealthy family, or a 10K mother of 15 kids none of whom look alike....

 

The thing I would be looking at is my wife to be... in 10 years will she look at me as a guy who found a way to respect her culture (and the culture of country I chose to live in), or... will be I the person who "blew off her family" and was "too cheap and bull headed" to even try... She may say, and even think she believes, that she is of like mind with you today... but she is Thai, will always be Thai... I would walk very carefully through this quagmire and try to find a balance between Western and Thai sensibilities...

 

Finally, forget about the 2K baht... use it as a bargaining chip, but you know - and so does everyone else (farang and Thai alike) - that it is really insignificant... especially against future familial peace and happiness.

[Scouse123]

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You are in Thailand, do as the Thais do. The Sinsod is just for show and should be returned after the wedding. If they refuse, it is a bessing in disguies -  they didn't stick to the rules, so stop the 2,000 a month to grannie.

 

It's simply not true that this is a tradition. It's a custom only in some families, not in many. Furthermore, it is also down to personal circumstances of the two getting married.

 

If they refuse after the wedding, What planet are you on? They have non intention of handing any monies back.

 

13 hours ago, thefarangteacher said:

I’m in my mid-30. I’m not a retiree; I don’t have the kind of money those guys do due to their station in life. So from me, 2,000 baht a month is generous, especially since it’s 2,000 baht more than I give my sick parents. That’s a large part of the problem here: the family’s perception that just because I am a “farang” that I’m loaded. I’m not. The kind of sinsod someone with this attitude would ask for is something I could not afford (as written previously they’re already implying 50,000 baht would be a pittance so I’m assuming they would ask for at least double that). 

 

Do not do it and I'll explain in another post here. Do NOT give it.

 

They don't give a damn about Thai weddings and blessings, only eating free, getting sloshed and getting free money.

 

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

2,000 baht a month is not generous, esp from a farang.

 

It's 2000 baht they don't normally get, and it's a lot more than the Thai pension gives them.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Of course it isn't, and  that is not what I said or meant. 

OK, I see what you meant, sorry.

Some others think 2,000 baht a month is generous.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Iamloki said:

The thing I would be looking at is my wife to be... in 10 years will she look at me as a guy who found a way to respect her culture (and the culture of country I chose to live in), or... will be I the person who "blew off her family" and was "too cheap and bull headed" to even try... She may say, and even think she believes, that she is of like mind with you today... but she is Thai, will always be Thai... I would walk very carefully through this quagmire and try to find a balance between Western and Thai sensibilities...

Complete nonsense of course ......... if she wants a man who respects her culture, she should marry a Thai man.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

It's simply not true that this is a tradition. It's a custom only in some families, not in many. Furthermore, it is also down to personal circumstances of the two getting married.

 

If they refuse after the wedding, What planet are you on? They have non intention of handing any monies back.

 

 

Do not do it and I'll explain in another post here. Do NOT give it.

 

They don't give a damn about Thai weddings and blessings, only eating free, getting sloshed and getting free money.

 

 

It's 2000 baht they don't normally get, and it's a lot more than the Thai pension gives them.

Regarding the Thai help allowance(not pension), it depends how old gran is, it's 1000 baht if over 90. This is not given to all over 60.

Thai pensions depend on work history.

 

I say tradition as it has been going on for many years.

Before the wedding, the families of the bride and groom negotiate the sinsod amount. This negotiation involves discussions about the groom's financial ability to fulfill this tradition. The groom, or sometimes his family, presents the agreed-upon sinsod amount to the bride's family during the wedding ceremony. This payment is a symbol of respect and gratitude to the bride's parents for raising and caring for her.

[Iamloki]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Complete nonsense of course ......... if she wants a man who respects her culture, she should marry a Thai man.

Your opinion is of course welcome BMT... How many Thai wives have you had, and for how long? Do you live in "Thailand" or in one of the "farang enclaves"?

[keithkarmann]

Do what I did. Move far away from the village, in my case four hours away. Get married in Hong Kong (only £100). Do not invite any family and do not pay any dowry. It worked for me and if your wife wants to support the family let her work and get her own income to send money to the village. Whatever you give the family it will never be enough and if money does go to the family (your money) then have strict limits. A lump some dowry is not the way to go as this will be gone in no time.

From my own experience I did pay a dowry in my first relationship after that was gone so was my Thai wife.

[Elkski]

It appears many of you guys who married in the past did the sin sod thing.  I'm sure you felt it was nearly 100% required at some time in the past.  But this is 2024.  Many just do it for show.  However it offends me to show off wealth of gold and cash on a platter  and it wasn't going to happen at my celebration.  Its stupid that  its a measure of your devotion or worth.   

Why is your wife being asked to support grandma?  What about mom and dad?   Have you actually sat with your wife and grandma to ask her about her needs?  And find out who else does or should be helping.   How many living children does grandma have.  

I'm just glad I acted like a man and   did my part to end this silly sin sod tradition. 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, stoner said:

 

he originally asked you about when in rome do as and gave an example of do as. which you have yet to reply to. i think that is what he is getting at.

 

so original question is ....hypothetically....yes we are aware you would never go there etc bla bla bla..... if you were living there would you respect local culture and perform genital mutilation on your daughter. to respect the locals and all. 

Assimilating to local customs holds great significance in Thailand. Sinsod is deeply rooted in Thai culture and plays a vital role in demonstrating respect and commitment to the bride's family. Embracing and participating in this tradition not only shows a genuine understanding of and appreciation for Thai customs but also fosters positive relationships between the marrying individuals and their respective families. It symbolizes the groom's acknowledgment of the responsibility he undertakes in marrying the woman, reinforcing the cultural value of family bonds. By actively engaging in local customs like sinsod, a man not only demonstrates cultural sensitivity but also strengthens the foundation of his marital relationship within the broader Thai social context. This assimilation fosters harmony and mutual understanding, contributing to the richness of the marital experience within the Thai cultural framework.

Embracing new customs can be personally enriching. It provides individuals with a broader perspective on life, fosters personal growth, and opens the door to new experiences and friendships.

It's also important to remember one's own cultural identity. It's not about completely abandoning one's background but rather about finding common ground and respecting the cultural context in which one is living.

Failing to adapt to local customs may lead to social isolation. People may find it challenging to connect with others in the community, form friendships, or participate in social events if they don't align with the cultural norms.

Failing to adapt may result in missed opportunities for personal and professional growth. Engaging with local customs allows individuals to broaden their perspectives, learn new skills, and fully experience the richness of their new surroundings.

Integrating myself, learning to speak Thai fluently, and becoming a Thai citizen have utterly transformed my life for the better. I secured excellent job opportunities that paid five times more than what I earned as a teacher. Engaging in networking, a crucial aspect of Thai society, enabled me to connect with influential individuals who significantly elevated my position on the hierarchical social ladder. Choosing not to integrate means missing out on the chance to climb even the initial rung of this ladder. Embracing the local culture and language has not only opened doors professionally but has also enriched my personal life in ways I never imagined.

[AustinRacing]

If you want to have a good life in Thailand it is easier to adapt to their way of life than expecting them to adapt to yours. It won’t happen. 
 

they’ll hate you even more if you do not have a ceremonial wedding including sinsod. 
 

Thai families prefer their daughters to marry a good Thai man. They will tolerate a farang if he’s a typical one. This means generous and not a tight-ass. They compare farang husbands in the village. Joe Blow bought a house and car etc and the family is better off. But in your case they’ll say “so you let a farang marry your daughter? How much sinsod? He’s building/buying house for family? What? He only gives 2k per month? “

They’ll be the laughing stock of the neighborhood and for that reason they’ll make your life miserable. And if you think your wife will back you against her family you’re dreaming😂😂😂

[Scouse123]

@thefarangteacher

 

Hi,

 

I previously had a good business and my other half assisted my in Pattaya and worked hard for me in the business. We sent home, way back when, 5,000 baht a month to the mother for over 22 years.

 

She comes from eight siblings and the mother now is widowed.

 

We never married. I didn't want it, and she didn't care about it. I didn't want children, I have two grown up sons in the UK who are hard-working and decent jobs.

 

We sold the businesses and built a compound of three houses and a store in Kalasin as I had ill health.

 

When everything was set up and completed, we had the usual suspects and spongers over for the opening of the house etc.

 

At this point, I wish to make clear, the brothers and one sister have never contributed one baht. I, in fact, educated the two daughters of the sister, from kindergarten to finishing high school and one is at university now in Khonkaen, and I never one word of thanks, so be it.

 

The eldest daughter ignores her mother, even though she lives 60 metres up the road, and hasn't spoken to her in years.

 

Once we moved here permanently, a good few years ago now, (I have told members this before), we were inundated with people attempting to borrow money although unemployed. Then there were people constantly trying to sell land they had already mortgaged, to the bank or lenders, and every other scam you can imagine.

 

I'll bring in now, the lazy drug addicted brother. He's now in his 40s and still lives with the mother and his fat good for nothing lazy girlfriend (whose actual husband is in prison). Neither work.

 

The 5,000 a month was always being handed over to the Yaa Baa addict by the mother. He's the youngest. The mother then came, asking for more.

 

I offered to employ the son on the land. I said he could do painting, garden work etc. He refused. I now employ outsiders to paint, cut the trees and grass etc.

 

He wants to sit in his room all day, talking to friends, drinking, disappears to the fields for obvious reasons, (it isn't to look after the rice)

 

There were various excuses for asking money, rice planting, etc I pointed out I had built her a house, she had 9 children in total, and it was their duty to help. She was their mother, not mine. I got the old 'look of despair, whilst looking away from me '.

 

I told her sometimes when I visit the UK, my youngest son falls asleep at the table after completing fourteen-hour shifts on rotation. Her son doesn't do fourteen minutes work!

 

I got the usual blank stare from her.

 

The mother only crosses the driveway to our house when she is sick or skint. She never comes to say thank you for anything.

 

I stopped the 5,000 baht after 22 years. The mother went racing to the village for sympathy. She got it from a few quarters.

 

However, a number of them stated she had waltzed around the village doing nothing for 20 odd years, whilst they had been up out of bed daily, selling rice, fruit, BBQ etc to make ends meet.

 

They pointed out that she had a nice house and a spoilt son, who had hands, eyes, and feet but wouldn't work.

 

Case closed buddy. If you give in, you are viewed as weak or a fool and on a slippery slope.

 

They will be disrespectful to your lady, it's bullying to get what they want from you and to make her feel she isn't trying hard enough for them.

[Scouse123]

14 minutes ago, AustinRacing said:

 

They’ll be the laughing stock of the neighborhood and for that reason they’ll make your life miserable. And if you think your wife will back you against her family you’re dreaming😂😂😂

 

My partner backed me against them, and we are still together after 27 years, and I am not dreaming.

 

So how does that fit alongside your reasoning.

[Stevemercer]

Can you afford the payments and sin sod? If you cannot that is one thing. I guess it is another thing if you can afford the demands, but refuse to do so on principle.

 

I don't thing we farang can come live in Thailand and refuse to accept Thai cultural practices that we disagree with (having being brought up in a different culture who are we to say what is correct or not correct).

 

So it is always going to boil down to a compromise. Your agreement to pay 2000 Baht a month is a compromise. But I think, having agreed to it, you should just pay it without any conditions - just make the payment, regular as clockwork, with the attitude that it is their money to do with what they want.

 

If you choose a Buddha ceremony with the family, of course sin sod will need to be paid. That is accepted cultural practice. But you can reach a compromise. Maybe 'loan' the money and jewelry for show purposes on the day, and then return it. There are brokers who can arrange this. Let the parents and relatives save face and have their day in the sun. But, in my view, you should pay for the ceremony and a gift of 50,000 Baht to the parents.

 

Maybe your girlfriend is different, but I meet many Thai ladies with committed farang boyfriends who, nevertheless, refuse to marry them (even the non-legal Buddha ceremony). These ladies so often feel unsure of their boyfriends (because they won't marry them) which makes them insecure and can cause problems (even if they never admit it to their boyfriends).