How many millions of baht does one need to retire in Pattaya?

[advancebooking]

On 2/18/2024 at 7:53 PM, SGD said:

car and Bt3/4m for a decent western standard car (pick up derived cars are tin cans, not real cars). Then you have another Bt10/20k a month running costs.

load of BS sorry. I own one and unlike you, I know that I get 5 year all expenses paid warranty. Standard for luxury cars. 

 

I pay 1700 to fill the tank once a month. A far cry from your HUGE over estimate of 10k to 20k

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, advancebooking said:

I pay 1700 to fill the tank once a month. A far cry from your HUGE over estimate of 10k to 20k

Well I run a vehicle and the cost will also include insurance, taxes  etc.  

[Mike Lister]

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well I run a vehicle and the cost will also include insurance, taxes  etc.  

Insurance - 18,000 pa

Tax - 6,000 pa

Maintenance - 10,000 pa

sub Total 34,000 pa

Or Monthly - 3,000

Fuel - 1,700 pm

Total, say 5,000 month

[PJ71]

My vehicle costs

 

Car #1

Insurance - 15K

Maint - 15K pa

Fuel 10-15K pm

 

Car #2

Insurance - 4k

Maint - 0

Fuel - 2K pm

 

Bike #1 

Insurance - 20K

Maint - 5K pa

Fuel -varies

 

Bike #2

Insurance - 20K

Maint - 5K pa

Fuel -varies

 

Bike #1 

Insurance - 1500

Maint - 1K pa

Fuel -varies

[Mike Lister]

19 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

My vehicle costs

 

Car #1

Insurance - 15K

Maint - 15K pa

Fuel 10-15K pm

 

Car #2

Insurance - 4k

Maint - 0

Fuel - 2K pm

 

Bike #1 

Insurance - 20K

Maint - 5K pa

Fuel -varies

 

Bike #2

Insurance - 20K

Maint - 5K pa

Fuel -varies

 

Bike #1 

Insurance - 1500

Maint - 1K pa

Fuel -varies

Fuel cost for car 1 is 10-15k per month, what do you drive, a Chieftain tank!

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 2/18/2024 at 2:53 PM, SGD said:

As for not having a car, then any argument against that is madness. But it costs Bt1m plus for a Thai made car and Bt3/4m for a decent western standard car (pick up derived cars are tin cans, not real cars). Then you have another Bt10/20k a month running costs.

Rent when you arrive for sure and maybe rent a few places but then why not buy a decent place ? If you have enough, then you buy eventually and if you don't you argue that rental is the only way forward.

While I agree with your previous points, and most who don't spend much do so because they don't have that much to spend - these points are individual choices. I could easily afford a car if I wanted to - but what would I do with it?? I don't go anywhere during the day, everything I need is within walking distance, grab, or a few minutes by taxi, and when I go out at nighttime I better not take a car and drive drunk. The only realistic use I might have for it is for the occasional trip between Bangkok and Pattaya, for which I'm more than happy to pay ~1500 to have someone else drive.

 

As far as rent vs buy: Thailand ROI in buying is extremely poor compared to what else you could do with your money. My apartment in Japan gives me 8% ROI, why would I buy a Thai condo when I can rent it for around 3-4% of what the purchase amount? and that's not even counting common fees and other expenses you have to pay when you own. Appreciation is very little to none and in many condos negative due to poor maintenance and oversupply. Maybe the market will change in the future, but at least at this point I have better uses for my money than putting it in the walls.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Maybe the market will change in the future, but at least at this point I have better uses for my money than putting it in the walls.

That change looks to be about now, might be time to move ahead of it!

 

The rest of your post, yes I see the point. But if one settles with a local lady, lifestyle will change. You will want to move away from the mayhem in central town, desire more living space than a 50 sqm box in the sky, and a vehicle comes with those changes. 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:58 AM, Pattaya57 said:

The numbers quoted in this thread are ridiculous. I own my own condo so no rent but I eat out for 90% of meals and drink way too much and still only spend 35,000 baht a month.

Owning your own condo isn't cost-less. You are still paying in the way that instead of making a return on that money you are getting nothing, so if market rent for your property would be 20k a month you should factor that in (at least) the monthly cost. Either way you'd have to compromise on where to eat and drink to keep a budget of 35k/mo. Probably cheaper bars and such? I'd be happy to understand how this math works honestly.

On 2/16/2024 at 9:58 AM, Pattaya57 said:

If you don't do ladies drinks and bar fines Pattaya is an extremely cheap place to retire as a single. If you do ladies drinks and barfine costs could easily be 5-10 times as much

So in other words - don't do anything fun and like can be very cheap? Even if you "just" date "normal" girls dates cost money, women cost money. You pay for it either way - just maybe not as much and not as transactional. Unless of course you're dating sugar mamas who aren't blessed in the visual department but willing to compensate for that by sharing the costs... (I'm not joking, I have a friend who used to date older/fatter women because they paid for his condo etc. I think he stopped that by now.. hope at least)

[PingRoundTheWorld]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

That change looks to be about now, might be time to move ahead of it!

TBH I am not familiar enough with the Pattaya market to give an opinion. I've lived in Bangkok most of my time in Thailand and only recently rented a condo in Pattaya which seems to be a lot cheaper, but less oversupply than Bangkok. If the express railway thing they've been talking about happens and the trip shortens to 45 minutes then I can definitely see prices increasing in Pattaya.

 

As for lady/house/car - no desire whatsoever. I grew up in one and owned one back in the states. It's too many headaches and too many insects for my liking. I'm perfectly fine in a box in the sky, and if said lady isn't, well, the door is over there.

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Fuel cost for car 1 is 10-15k per month, what do you drive, a Chieftain tank!

I do a lot of driving.

[VocalNeal]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:31 PM, advancebooking said:

I told him about 35 million if he lives to 85 yrs old. What do you think?

 

If he lives untill 85 that is a lot of years.

 

I'd say 9 million 

 

Put 5 million in some sort of fund and draw down the remaining 4 million for 5 years then withdraw 4 million from the fund and start again.  

 

We need to account for inflation, present-day value, etc.. so someone with more financial savvy can work out the exact numbers. 

[FritsSikkink]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:31 PM, Jingthing said:

Invest the rest of it in high risk equities.

Sorted.

Until your high risk equity is down the drain.

[VocalNeal]

7 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Until your high risk equity is down the drain.

 

Then use a medium-risk fund.

[FritsSikkink]

49 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Then use a medium-risk fund.

A medium risk fund can still drain quite some funds. 

[VocalNeal]

35 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

A medium risk fund can still drain quite some funds. 

 

We don't much interest from a bank.

[noobexpat]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

A medium risk fund can still drain quite some funds. 

 

Well how do you make money?

And add in your age too!

 

 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

18 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Until your high risk equity is down the drain.

You don't invest $1mil (or whatever amount) in a single asset class. You spread it between different assets like stocks, ETFs, high-yielding real estate, etc. Some will go up while others go down, but overall in the long run if you invest smartly you'll be up.

[georgegeorgia]

I guess if your 60yo and you had a 20 million baht it still wouldn't be enough 

And in reality it's not especially if you go to 85

 

[Mike Lister]

The issue is not how much money you have when you retire, but instead it's the survivability robustness of your income streams when you do.

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

You don't invest $1mil (or whatever amount) in a single asset class. You spread it between different assets like stocks, ETFs, high-yielding real estate, etc. Some will go up while others go down, but overall in the long run if you invest smartly you'll be up.

What you describe isn't high risk, which i was responding to.

[FritsSikkink]

17 hours ago, noobexpat said:

 

Well how do you make money?

And add in your age too!

 

 

I work here as a manager in IT at a multinational, wife has a durian farm + minimarket + 2 other businesses.

I also get early retirement payments from a private pension while 64. will get more pension funds in 2.5 years. 

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

I work here as a manager in IT at a multinational, wife has a durian farm + minimarket + 2 other businesses.

I also get early retirement payments from a private pension while 64. will get more pension funds in 2.5 years. 

 

I was referring to 'free' money or maybe unearned.

I also run my own business here but its not free money.

[FritsSikkink]

1 minute ago, noobexpat said:

 

I was referring to 'free' money or maybe unearned.

I also run my own business here but its not free money.

What do you mean by 'free' money?

[noobexpat]

Just now, FritsSikkink said:

What do you mean by 'free' money?

 

Passive a better term? I think you know what i mean. 

[SGD]

On 2/18/2024 at 1:06 PM, Mike Lister said:

A myopic view! It doesn't cost more than around 50K a month for a property owning foreigner to live comfortably in Thailand, outside of central Bangkok, that's more than twice the average national wage. Almost every Westerner I know here spends around that level and prefers to bank the rest and invest it or secure it as inheritance for spouse or family. THB 4mill. per year is not comfortable, THB 4 mill. is excessive by Thai standards and by resident expat standards.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1030220/thailand-average-monthly-income-per-household-by-region/

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/blogs/in-focus/40012593

 

It depends on what you do, what you eat, what you drink, how you travel, etc.

A good (not good value, I mean good) bottle of red wine in a restaurant is rarely under 3/4000 and dinner for 2 people can easily be 10k plus. Do that once a week and your 50k a month has gone already.

 

Not all of us consider a shoebox condo or some Thai standard house as "living". Nor, though we love soup noodles, do we want to have to eat street food for every meal.

Why can't I have a BMW or Mercedes car ? properly built to European safety standards and the same cars I have been driving for decades. Why, if I return to live in Thailand, do I have to downgrade to an inferior locally made Toyota or buy a pick up or go native and get a bloody motorbike ?

 

Sorry, 50k is what I'd put in my pocket if going out for the night, not a month's total expenses.

[SGD]

On 2/18/2024 at 1:40 PM, ozimoron said:

 

I think 50K per month is on the money as well, at least for Pattaya. Much less than that would be a life of relative misery. Right now, expect to pay 15,000 a month rent for decent long term digs in Pattaya so that brings it to 65K per month. Right on the minimum non O visa requirement.

 

Last night I watched part of a video by a well known YT'er who claimed he could live in Bangkok (with a partner) for $970 a month. I got a bit suspicious when he mentioned carrying around a portable water filter and sharing his internet by personal hotspot with his partner. I killed it right there.

 

So where can you rent a 200sqm plus condo for 15k ? Why do all expats have to live in shoebox size condos ?

I'll let you into a secret, it is because they cannot afford or justify having a larger, roomy and airy place.

You also realise that the 65k visa requirement hasn't moved in about 20 years and back then you could get about 5 x as much for your 65k as you can now (in GBP terms) so that would make 65k into 325k a month or 4.38m a year. That would seem somewhat near my number 🙂 

 

[SGD]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:47 PM, advancebooking said:

load of BS sorry. I own one and unlike you, I know that I get 5 year all expenses paid warranty. Standard for luxury cars. 

 

I pay 1700 to fill the tank once a month. A far cry from your HUGE over estimate of 10k to 20k

 

So your car doesn't depreciate then ?

 

Please tell me of this magic car.

 

I know you don't put 10/20k of fuel in a car every month but go try service a BMW or buy a replacement part or buy new proper Continental or Michelin tyres and see how much they cost.

To replace my BMW X3 would be about 4.5m, maybe a bit more and I think that after 5 years, it would be worth perhaps 2.5m to 3m. So let's say the higher number, 3m, meaning I'd lost 1.5m over 5years, then that is 300k a year or actually 25k a month.

Sorry, you're right, a decent car doesn't cost 10/20k a month, it is more like 30/40k a month.

 

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, SGD said:

 

It depends on what you do, what you eat, what you drink, how you travel, etc.

A good (not good value, I mean good) bottle of red wine in a restaurant is rarely under 3/4000 and dinner for 2 people can easily be 10k plus. Do that once a week and your 50k a month has gone already.

 

Not all of us consider a shoebox condo or some Thai standard house as "living". Nor, though we love soup noodles, do we want to have to eat street food for every meal.

Why can't I have a BMW or Mercedes car ? properly built to European safety standards and the same cars I have been driving for decades. Why, if I return to live in Thailand, do I have to downgrade to an inferior locally made Toyota or buy a pick up or go native and get a bloody motorbike ?

 

Sorry, 50k is what I'd put in my pocket if going out for the night, not a month's total expenses.

Yes indeed, everyone is different, the only sad part about being different is not understanding your standing relative to the average and then bragging about it, that's tacky and classless, typically a sign of inherited wealth! You wrote that, "those who say you can live comfortably on Bt50k a month are almost exclusively people who don't have more than that to spend". In a country where the average wage is less than half that amount, your remarks are naïve and lacking in any good taste whatsoever and I presume you are merely trolling. A sign of wealth, class and good taste would be to say nothing. 

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

In a country where the average wage is less than half that amount, your remarks are naïve and lacking in any good taste whatsoever and I presume you are merely trolling.

You can't compare what a local makes and needs to live to a retired expat, you're comparing apples and oranges.

[Mike Lister]

18 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

You can't compare what a local makes and needs to live to a retired expat, you're comparing apples and oranges.

I don't agree, there must be a relationship. There must be an overlap between the wealth of some foreigners and locals, it's impossible to think that just being a foreigner means that you're in a wealth class that is far above and beyond that of the local population. That is exactly what locals think when they see a foreigner whereas we all understand the reality is very different. The question is, the extent of that overlap. Yes I agree that in general, foreigners have more liquid wealth than the average native Thai but there's much more to that picture than that alone.