Donald Trump's New York fraud trial wraps up, with millions of dollars on the line

[CharlieH]

Donald Trump returned to Manhattan Supreme Court on Thursday for the last day of his fraud trial, lashing out in court at the attorney general who brought the case.

A judge has already determined that Trump family members and executives fraudulently inflated assets to secure favourable loans.

But the trial will determine damages.

New York Judge Arthur Engoron has said he will issue a final written ruling in the case by the end of the month.

 

The outcome could be stiff penalties that may challenge the famous family's legacy after it built its fortune in New York real estate.

New York Attorney General Letitia James is asking the judge for a $370m (£290m) penalty. She also aims to bar Donald Trump from ever doing business in New York again, a five-year ban for Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr and an independent monitor to oversee their company for the next five years.

Mr Trump's attorneys attempted to discredit Ms James's case, arguing during two hours of closing argument on Thursday that the family had not committed fraud.

At the end, the former president interjected as well.

After defence lawyer Christopher Kise requested that his client be allowed to speak, Mr Trump told the judge the trial was a "a fraud on me".

 

Judge Engoron allowed Mr Trump to continue talking despite him refusing to abide by restrictions set by the judge.

Mr Trump went on to insult Judge Engoron as well as Ms James.

"We have a situation where I'm an innocent man, I've been persecuted by someone running for office," Mr Trump said, before Judge Engoron told Mr Kise to "control his client".

Mr Trump has made similar complaints during the three-month trial, both in his testimony before the court and in his speeches to reporters outside. He also brought up similar grievances when speaking to the press on three separate occasions during the hearing on Thursday.

 

FULL STORY

 

[Chomper Higgot]

The question is, how far up the house of cards is the penalty handed down by the Court going to be?

 

Will it topple the whole edifice?

 

Regardless, I’m sure the many contractors and suppliers bilked by Trump over the years are enjoying this. 

[novacova]

This banana republic kangaroo circus court isn’t going to have the last say in this matter.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, novacova said:

This banana republic kangaroo circus court isn’t going to have the last say in this matter.

Well Trump had a go at getting the last word, rambled on with a load of irrelevant nonsense until the Judge got fed up of Trump’s  histrionic ranting and shutting him down.

 

Trump’s last words are reported to be ‘What is going on here?’.

 

What is going on Donny is you are being held accountable for your actions.

 

See you in court again next time.

 

 

Edited January 12 by Chomper Higgot

[ozimoron]

19 minutes ago, novacova said:

This banana republic kangaroo circus court isn’t going to have the last say in this matter.

 

I hope you're right. The crazies will remove any chance the GOP has in getting back in power for half a century

[Tug]

Old Donnie is being run out of his home town on a rail not allowed to do business in NY getting fined north of 300 million I wonder if he’s tired of winning yet!

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, Tug said:

Old Donnie is being run out of his home town on a rail not allowed to do business in NY getting fined north of 300 million I wonder if he’s tired of winning yet!

 

His actual quote was "sick of winning". Little doubt that he is sick so I guess he is.

[ozimoron]

A trustee overseeing the bankruptcy case of right-wing Chinese businessman Guo Wengui – championed as the "Donald Trump of Beijing"— listed Donald Trump Jr. and former White House trade advisor Peter Navarro as potential defendants according to a court filing, reported by The Daily Beast.

 

Wengui, who sought asylum from communist China in the U.S., declared bankruptcy in 2022 after being fined a whopping $134 million in fines tied to his yacht and served as a benefactor to ex-White House strategist and MAGA surrogate Steve Bannon.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/don-trump-jr-chinese-bankruptcy/

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, novacova said:

This banana republic kangaroo circus court isn’t going to have the last say in this matter.

I agree, many will be tuning into Truth Social for instructions.

Have you considered buying some NFT's?

I am sure the $370M plus 9% compound interest will promote more crowdfunding requests from the proven grifter.
 

[paul1804]

The sad reality is that this entire scenario is a political witch hunt and has been since Trump was elected in 2016. Why are the Bidens & the Clintons not on trial here, they are the real villains and together with the Dems they will destroy the USA left unchecked. Which US states are doing well financially and which are are disaster?  I think the standouts would be California, the disaster state & Florida or Texas the success's!!

[Trippy]

So, can I just go to New York buy a 1 million dollar property, then go to the bank and get a 10 million dollar loan on it? Very trusting those New York banks.

[newbee2022]

Who wants to know that? Nothing to do with Thailand!

Who cares what two senile "walking dead" are doing in US? 😕

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Who wants to know that? Nothing to do with Thailand!

Who cares what two senile "walking dead" are doing in US? 😕

 

Some people like to watch movies. I like train wrecks.

[Chomper Higgot]

47 minutes ago, paul1804 said:

 Why are the Bidens & the Clintons not on trial here

Because they didn’t commit financial crimes within the jurisdiction of NY State.

 

Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Thingamabob]

This trial is a farce, like most trials in the USA. Sad to see Amreica sinking so low.

[newbee2022]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Some people like to watch movies. I like train wrecks.

2 walking wrecks you mean???

However, the Blog's name is Asian Now. Nothing to do with US. 

[newbee2022]

50 minutes ago, Trippy said:

So, can I just go to New York buy a 1 million dollar property, then go to the bank and get a 10 million dollar loan on it? Very trusting those New York banks.

Mainly involved "Deutsche Bank" from Germany🥳

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

2 walking wrecks you mean???

However, the Blog's name is Asian Now. Nothing to do with US. 

 

This section is headed "World News" - it might give you a clue.

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Mainly involved "Deutsche Bank" from Germany🥳

 

Germany is not in Asean either. 

[newbee2022]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

This section is headed "World News" - it might give you a clue.

It's old men's Blabla. No "News" at all. 😴

[newbee2022]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Germany is not in Asean either. 

If you could read (sigh): I'm not talking about Germany. I give you only a Bank's name. 

But anyway:  it's as important as a goiter. 😴😴😴

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

It's old men's Blabla. No "News" at all. 😴

 

I wasn't talking about the content. Do you keep your longhorn beetles in a glass jar?

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

If you could read (sigh): I'm not talking about Germany. I give you only a Bank's name. 

But anyway:  it's as important as a goiter. 😴😴😴

 

You said Germany and the banks name you porky teller, you.

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I agree, many will be tuning into Truth Social for instructions.

Have you considered buying some NFT's?

I am sure the $370M plus 9% compound interest will promote more crowdfunding requests from the proven grifter.
 

 will promote more crowdfunding requests from the proven grifter

 

The goobers have been donating hundreds of millions of dollars of their hard earned money to the proven grifter already, so why stop now? Trump is their messiah and savior, so all he needs to do is ask for more money and they will obey. The minds of the cult members work in mysterious ways….

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, paul1804 said:

The sad reality is that this entire scenario is a political witch hunt and has been since Trump was elected in 2016. Why are the Bidens & the Clintons not on trial here, they are the real villains and together with the Dems they will destroy the USA left unchecked. Which US states are doing well financially and which are are disaster?  I think the standouts would be California, the disaster state & Florida or Texas the success's!!

There are these things called "trials" which are being conducted to prove guilt.

 

If the charges are just a witch hunt, it will come out at the trial.

[Danderman123]

7 hours ago, novacova said:

This banana republic kangaroo circus court isn’t going to have the last say in this matter.

It is sure there will be an appeal. Trump will have to deposit the fine amount, first.

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

This trial is a farce, like most trials in the USA. Sad to see Amreica sinking so low.

Yes. Imagine a country where people are held accountable for their crimes! What's next? No automatic immunity? How is a dictator wannabe going to be able to assassinate his critics and political opponents? The HORROR!

 

I'm sure you either don't know or are incapable of escaping the vapors from trump's bloated backside, but here is the crux of the NY trial:

 

trump lied on his financial statements in the hope of getting reduced rates of interest (which is a crime in NY). At that time he was heavily investing in NJ casinos, too, so he was cash strapped. Had he not been able to get the reduced interest rates, he would not have been able to service the loans from NY. Also, the NY borrowings had personal guarantees, so non-payment would hit his wallet.

 

In NJ, he did a few things differently. He set up each property as an independent entity, with no personal guarantee. Collateral was the land and project itself. He borrowed from 72 banks, plus he issued junk bonds. As CEO of each of the NJ projects, he paid himself a massive salary, and used that money to repay his personally-guaranteed NY loans. He then declared bankruptcy for each of his NJ casino and hotel properties, stiffing the banks, bondholders and subcontractors who did the construction and renovation. He violated the covenants of both his NJ loans and the junk bonds, but lenders and bondholders knew he was tapped out and settled for 30 cents on the dollar or less as they assumed his land and properties. As you might know, those losses eventually get passed on to taxpayers, as the stiffed entities---banks, bondholders, subcontractors---put their losses against profits in order to reduce their taxes.

 

An amusing side story is that trump's father co-signed the NY loans, so was also personally liable. (The supposed "self-made" donny had his dad as co-signer of all his loans until his dad passed. trump also inherited $412 million when dad died, and had been receiving a massive allowance from dad since the age of 3, which amounted to over $100 million by the time his actually successful dad died. When a loan payment was due in NY, dad had an associate go into one of donny's NJ casinos and purchase $3 million in chips. That cash was then used to meet a loan payment in NY. Dad was charged with making an illegal loan.

 

One key part of the lawsuit is that it is illegal in NY to lie on bank loan applications and also to lie on insurance applications. The crime doesn't even require a victim, though there are victims in the fact that lenders and insurers---and their shareholders---earned less revenue. trump's claim that the banks should have done their own "due diligence" is both legally irrelevant and silly. If borrowers are not required to be honest, there would be no point in filling out a loan application. Lenders have to rely to a large extent on what loan applicants attest to with their signature on applications.

 

Oh, and the whining about an unfair judge is immaterial. trump's legal time had the choice of a bench trial or jury trial. They chose a bench trial, which means only one person---the judge---determines guilt or innocence. Judge Engeron (who received a bomb threat at his home just this week by a typical violent trump cult member, like the goobers who attacked the US Capitol at trump's urging), ruled that trump and his company committed fraud according to the NY law.

 

This is all a matter of public record, and can be accessed with a bit of Googling.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

There are these things called "trials" which 

 

If the charges are just a witch hunt, it will come out at the trial.

 

Not if these trials are really being conducted to prove guilt, it won't.

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, paul1804 said:

The sad reality is that this entire scenario is a political witch hunt and has been since Trump was elected in 2016. Why are the Bidens & the Clintons not on trial here, they are the real villains and together with the Dems they will destroy the USA left unchecked. Which US states are doing well financially and which are are disaster?  I think the standouts would be California, the disaster state & Florida or Texas the success's!!

The actual sad reality is that his cult excuses every single crime their messiah commits, whether it is bank and insurance fraud, fomenting insurrection, stealing highly classified documents, trying to browbeat State officials to commit election fraud, appoint fake electors to try to overturn an election, get away with sexual assault, etc.

 

trump's "crack" staff, just this week, argued to two different courts (Georgia State system, DC Circuit Court) the following:

 

1) In Georgia, his team filed a defense stating "trump did not know trying to overturn an election was illegal"

 

2) In front of the DC Circuit Court, his lawyer argued that a President is immune from prosecution unless first found guilty in the Senate after impeachment in the House, and this means a sitting President can have his political opponents or critics assassinated and be immune from prosecution, unless impeached and convicted in the Senate first. That means, according to trump's lawyers, he could have had Biden assassinated, and then resigned before impeachment, getting off scot free.

 

Silly trump had better hope the DC Circuit Court strikes down this immunity nonsense, lest Biden decide to have trump killed, and then Biden could simply resign before getting impeached, and walk away scot free.

Edited January 12 by Walker88

[Walker88]

Did you see trump's "Loser Face" sitting in that court yesterday. He knows he's up against it. He knows his years of fraud are going to cost him. Even if he appeals the judgement, he will still be required to post cash while he appeals.

 

Interestingly, trump still has loans, via SIVs set up off Deutsche Bank's balance sheet, whose monetary source is Russian oligarchs. This was confirmed several times in the past by both of trump's sons. Stiffing US bondholders and subcontractors is one thing, but trump would be in a world of trouble if he stiffed Russians. A couple of Secret Service agents are hardly capable of keeping the hired help of the Russians away from trump.

 

On Friday, another NY court will hear from E Jean Carroll, who is suing trump for ongoing defamation, and was already awarded $5 million for trump's sexual assault of her in a Bergdorf-Goodman dressing room years ago.