Israel shows ‘chilling’ intent to commit genocide in Gaza, South Africa tells UN court

[CharlieH]

 

Israel has shown “chilling” and “incontrovertible” intent to commit genocide in Gaza, with full knowledge of how many civilians it is killing, the UN international court of justice in The Hague has heard, at the opening of a case Israel has described as baseless.

South Africa, which has brought the case, alleged “grave violence and genocidal acts” by Israel, on the first morning of the two-day hearing amid a febrile atmosphere outside the court in The Hague. It called on the judges to order an immediate ceasefire.

 

It said evidence of genocide was present in the number of civilians killed by Israel and also in statements made by its political and military leaders, including the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. In support of its case, it showed photos of Palestinian mass graves, Israeli flags adorning wreckage in Gaza and what it claimed were videos of Netanyahu expressing support for genocide, as well as troops – taking his cue, it alleged – chanting “no uninvolved citizens”.

 

“Genocides are never declared in advance but this court has the benefit of the past 13 weeks of evidence that shows incontrovertibly, a pattern of conduct and related intention that justifies a plausible claim of genocidal acts,” the South African lawyer Adila Hassim told the court.

Her colleague Tembeka Ngcukaitobi said there had been “reiteration and repetition of genocidal speech throughout every sphere of state in Israel” such that “the evidence of genocidal intent is not only chilling, it is also overwhelming and incontrovertible”.

Israel, which has denied the allegations, will give its response on Friday. It has said it is waging war against Palestinian militants, not the Palestinian people. In a statement, Israel’s foreign ministry accused South Africa of rank hypocrisy, saying it had ignored “the fact that Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel, murdered, executed, massacred, raped and kidnapped Israeli citizens, just because they were Israelis, in an attempt to carry out genocide”.

 

FULL STORY

 

[Nick Carter icp]

 

   That is what South Africa is saying and the Judge hasn't yet given a ruling .

People thought that you were an Anti Semite because you made numerous anti Semitic remarks , but this was before they knew that some of your best friends are Jews 

[Bkk Brian]

It seems South Africa also has some Jewish friends. However their Jewish friends also go to church. lol

 

https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1745444737514115443

 

[Hawaiian]

It might disappoint you when some impartial entities see that genocide has not happened.

I've read that some cases have taken years to settle.  I really don't know how long it will take and don't care to make a guess, especially since I am not a legal scholar nor an expert on genocide.

[Nick Carter icp]

Speaking of South Africa and Jews 

South Africa had 120 000 Jews in the 1970's and about half of them have left South Africa and moved to other Countries and theres about 60 000 Jews left in South Africa and a significant amount left South Africa and moved to Israel . 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

Israel has shown “chilling” and “incontrovertible” intent to commit genocide in Gaza

Gota love the Guardian

 

@guardian is the most obsessively Israel-hating MSM publication in the English speaking world, full stop. And, it has, since Oct. 7, doubled down on their hatred, as we've shown in post after post at our site. 

The outrage of those working for the publication when we call them out on their malign obsession is remarkable.  Their contributors and journalists seem to have no ability to engage in introspection, and ask themselves why so many, including most in the Jewish community, are so critical of them.

 

The fact that we even have to explain why Hamas is a genocidal, antisemitic organisation is astonishing.

 

https://camera-uk.org/topic/guardian/

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

46 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

All countries in the world can see this Genocide but don't want to upset the USA.

 

   Just 19 Countries support this court cast by South Africa , those Countries include Iran, Iraq , Turkiye , Jordan, Lebanon and Pakistan .

    That isn't "all Countries" in the World

[ozimoron]

20 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Speaking of South Africa and Jews 

South Africa had 120 000 Jews in the 1970's and about half of them have left South Africa and moved to other Countries and theres about 60 000 Jews left in South Africa and a significant amount left South Africa and moved to Israel . 

 

That's because apartheid was stopped.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

The fact that we even have to explain why Israel is a genocidal, anti-musim nation is astonishing.

 

@ozimoron

 

No, that's just you saying stuff, as usual.

[Morch]

US says genocide charges ‘unfounded,’ rejects Israeli claim South Africa serving Hamas

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-says-genocide-charges-unfounded-rejects-israeli-claim-south-africa-serving-hamas/

 

U.S. slams 'meritless' Israel genocide suit, reigniting tensions with South Africa

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-slams-meritless-israel-genocide-suit-reigniting-tensions-with-south-africa/ar-AA1mG9oO

 

UK says South Africa’s genocide case ‘endangers peace’

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/uk-says-south-africas-genocide-case-endangers-peace-weoyg5wz

 

In other news, UK's anti-BDS legislation just passed another step....

 

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The fact that we even have to explain why Israel is a genocidal, anti-musim nation is astonishing.

LOL wow lumping the whole nation into being genocidal and anti Muslim all in one.

Edited January 12 by Bkk Brian

[expat_4_life]

Regardless of how this court rules (it is not a trial) this is not good for the for the Israeli sides PR war regards the conflict.  In terms of world opinion Israel continues to be isolated except for primarily US support.

 

A diplomatic/world opinion disaster for Israel and its supporters, the US in particular.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, expat_4_life said:

Regardless of how this court rules (it is not a trial) this is not good for the for the Israeli sides PR war regards the conflict.  In terms of world opinion Israel continues to be isolated except for primarily US support.

 

A diplomatic/world opinion disaster for Israel and its supporters, the US in particular.

 

Isolated how? Any countries breaking of relations? Sanctions? Bans?

And, for the sake of argument, suppose the ICJ dismisses the case, how does that play?

[expat_4_life]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Isolated how? Any countries breaking of relations? Sanctions? Bans?

And, for the sake of argument, suppose the ICJ dismisses the case, how does that play?

Me thinks you have not been paying attention to the UN votes in the Security Council and General Assembly over a variety of resolutions regarding the conflict and the growing calls internationally for a cease-fire.  I call it increasingly isolated, you can split hairs and call it what you wish.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, expat_4_life said:

Me thinks you have not been paying attention to the UN votes in the Security Council and General Assembly over a variety of resolutions regarding the conflict and the growing calls internationally for a cease-fire.  I call it increasingly isolated, you can split hairs and call it what you wish.

 

Methinks that you conflate between words and actual action.

It might become what you say. So far, though? Not so much.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, expat_4_life said:

Me thinks you have not been paying attention to the UN votes in the Security Council and General Assembly over a variety of resolutions regarding the conflict and the growing calls internationally for a cease-fire.  I call it increasingly isolated, you can split hairs and call it what you wish.

The UN Security Council resolution a couple of weeks ago called for the immediate release of hostages with no pre-conditions. It did not call for a ceasefire.

 

Israel did however call for a ceasefire with Hamas in return for another Hostage/prisoner swap. Hamas refused.

 

Me thinks you've not been paying attention at all.

[Hawaiian]

30 minutes ago, expat_4_life said:

Regardless of how this court rules (it is not a trial) this is not good for the for the Israeli sides PR war regards the conflict.  In terms of world opinion Israel continues to be isolated except for primarily US support.

 

A diplomatic/world opinion disaster for Israel and its supporters, the US in particular.

It would be a disaster for Israel if they stop now and Hamas is "allowed" to rearm with more sophisticated weaponry, including long range precision missiles.  So now, Israel needs to choose which is more important to them.  I would think they will pick disarming Hamas over worrying about bad PR.

[xylophone]

39 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

It would be a disaster for Israel if they stop now and Hamas is "allowed" to rearm with more sophisticated weaponry, including long range precision missiles.  So now, Israel needs to choose which is more important to them.  I would think they will pick disarming Hamas over worrying about bad PR.

IMO it would be foolish for Israel to stop now, but there is another consideration here – – for years Hamas has been building shelters, tunnels and storage facilities for explosives and weapons in Gaza, and I would bet good money on the fact that many Palestinians were complicit in this. If this is so, where does it leave Israel; actually on a hiding to nothing if they do not continue to try and wipe out Hamas.

 

Referring to the above, the problem is still that many Palestinians are complicit/supporters of Hamas and that will never change unfortunately, and as Hamas has clearly stated its objectives.....

 

-The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),

 

-The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,

 

-The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and

 

-The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

 

Then that leaves Israel with very few options and I still cannot understand why Blinken is still proposing a two state solution, mainly because Hamas and many Palestinians do not want Israel is anywhere near them, so the hostilities will continue, even with a supposed "two state solution".

 

The sad thing about it is that until Hamas is completely destroyed, and even then remnants will remain amongst the Palestinians, ready to go again, the situation will not be resolved.....so where to now. In light of this, it's not surprising that some far right Israeli ministers are quietly "seemingly condoning genocide".

 

As I have posted earlier, one solution would be the complete and utter destruction of Gaza and of Hamas, and possibly moving the Palestinians out so that Hamas can no longer infiltrate and work to destroy Israel.

 

In a nutshell, what other option does Israel have?

[Hawaiian]

44 minutes ago, xylophone said:

IMO it would be foolish for Israel to stop now, but there is another consideration here – – for years Hamas has been building shelters, tunnels and storage facilities for explosives and weapons in Gaza, and I would bet good money on the fact that many Palestinians were complicit in this. If this is so, where does it leave Israel; actually on a hiding to nothing if they do not continue to try and wipe out Hamas.

 

Referring to the above, the problem is still that many Palestinians are complicit/supporters of Hamas and that will never change unfortunately, and as Hamas has clearly stated its objectives.....

 

-The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),

 

-The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,

 

-The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and

 

-The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

 

Then that leaves Israel with very few options and I still cannot understand why Blinken is still proposing a two state solution, mainly because Hamas and many Palestinians do not want Israel is anywhere near them, so the hostilities will continue, even with a supposed "two state solution".

 

The sad thing about it is that until Hamas is completely destroyed, and even then remnants will remain amongst the Palestinians, ready to go again, the situation will not be resolved.....so where to now. In light of this, it's not surprising that some far right Israeli ministers are quietly "seemingly condoning genocide".

 

As I have posted earlier, one solution would be the complete and utter destruction of Gaza and of Hamas, and possibly moving the Palestinians out so that Hamas can no longer infiltrate and work to destroy Israel.

 

In a nutshell, what other option does Israel have?

Israel can cave in to pro-terrorist supporters or they can continue with their stated goal of destroying Hamas.  If Israel plans to survive in its present form they will choose the later.

[simple1]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Gota love the Guardian

 

@guardian is the most obsessively Israel-hating MSM publication in the English speaking world, full stop. And, it has, since Oct. 7, doubled down on their hatred, as we've shown in post after post at our site. 

The outrage of those working for the publication when we call them out on their malign obsession is remarkable.  Their contributors and journalists seem to have no ability to engage in introspection, and ask themselves why so many, including most in the Jewish community, are so critical of them.

 

The fact that we even have to explain why Hamas is a genocidal, antisemitic organisation is astonishing.

 

https://camera-uk.org/topic/guardian/

 

 

 

Nonsense. In the OP the Guardian is reporting the allegations made in Court - it is not an opinion piece.

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Nonsense. In the OP the Guardian is reporting the allegations made in Court - it is not an opinion piece.

I quoted a Guardian opinion from the piece. I also provided a link to my quote. 

 

You are welcome

[Morch]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

IMO it would be foolish for Israel to stop now, but there is another consideration here – – for years Hamas has been building shelters, tunnels and storage facilities for explosives and weapons in Gaza, and I would bet good money on the fact that many Palestinians were complicit in this. If this is so, where does it leave Israel; actually on a hiding to nothing if they do not continue to try and wipe out Hamas.

 

Referring to the above, the problem is still that many Palestinians are complicit/supporters of Hamas and that will never change unfortunately, and as Hamas has clearly stated its objectives.....

 

-The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),

 

-The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,

 

-The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and

 

-The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

 

Then that leaves Israel with very few options and I still cannot understand why Blinken is still proposing a two state solution, mainly because Hamas and many Palestinians do not want Israel is anywhere near them, so the hostilities will continue, even with a supposed "two state solution".

 

The sad thing about it is that until Hamas is completely destroyed, and even then remnants will remain amongst the Palestinians, ready to go again, the situation will not be resolved.....so where to now. In light of this, it's not surprising that some far right Israeli ministers are quietly "seemingly condoning genocide".

 

As I have posted earlier, one solution would be the complete and utter destruction of Gaza and of Hamas, and possibly moving the Palestinians out so that Hamas can no longer infiltrate and work to destroy Israel.

 

In a nutshell, what other option does Israel have?

 

The prospects of Israel completely rooting out Hamas anytime soon, are slim. The statements you hear about this from some Israeli politicians are at odds with views expressed by the military or people with more knowledge and less re-election considerations. Even a less comprehensive goal, say 'just' seriously curbing Hamas's military capabilities, dismantling the more problematic elements of its tunnel system, and capturing/killing those involved in the 7/10 attack - will take a long time. Officially the IDF speaks about a framework of a year, but that seems either unrealistically optimistic or something for public consumption. And that's assuming freedom to carry out operations in the Gaza Strip, which is not a given.

 

If discounting them 'total' endgames, and focusing on what's more attainable - that would be a somewhere in between, with Hamas not completely defeated, yet being much less of a threat. This would still require months of fighting, dismantling tunnels, and so on.

 

Regardless of the above, there's a question of what happens in the Gaza Strip next. The so-called 'the day after' issue. So far, due to political constraints and agenda, Netanyahu is doing his best to avoid serious discussion about this, instead toying with nonsense 'solutions' (some of which are echoed in the post replied to). The only semi-practical possibility is the Gaza Strip being co-managed by the PA and some form or the other of International involvement. I don't think this is quite up to Israel as some (including Netanyahu & Co.) imagine.  

 

Without getting into the practicalities of a two-state solution, the details involved and the prospects of it becoming a reality - what other option is there? Keeping the Gaza Strip in limbo? Ongoing violence and strife between illegal Israeli settlers and the Palestinians in the West Bank? Israel cannot go on ruling the Palestinians as it does, not in the long run. Hamas's ideology (and it's extreme right wing counterparts in Israel) are no answer either.

 

One makes peace with enemies, that's how it is. Doesn't have to be all rosy, doesn't have to always work out 100%, or be to everyone's satisfaction.

 

The alternative is a state of constant war. This is not unimaginable, but maybe more so when dealing with two separate countries. The way things are make the conflict much more complex than two neighboring entities plus a state of war - and I don't think it can be maintained (by either side) without things coming to a ugly head at some point.

 

[Paul Catton]

Guilty as charged.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Paul Catton said:

Guilty as charged.

The court of Catton has spoken!

[Tropicalevo]

What does SA say about HAMAS's 'chilling' intent to commit genocide in Israel?

[Jingthing]

Just now, Tropicalevo said:

What does SA say about HAMAS's 'chilling' intent to commit genocide in Israel?

Crickets no doubt.

[freeworld]

3 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

What does SA say about HAMAS's 'chilling' intent to commit genocide in Israel?

It has been denounced and the legal experts have explained why hamas is not being prosecuted in the icj.

Edited January 12 by freeworld

[Jingthing]

Just now, freeworld said:

It has been denounced.

Weak tea.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, freeworld said:

It has been denounced.

 

   Were in charges bought before the ICJ ?

[Morch]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

It has been denounced.

 

Yeah, like anti-Israel posters on here 'denounce' it in a half-sentence, then give a one thousand word essay about Israel Bad.