Israel shows ‘chilling’ intent to commit genocide in Gaza, South Africa tells UN court

[beautifulthailand99]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The legal expert is a long standing Israel hater, Zionist hater and borderline antisemite. Considering he's been advising the Palestinians on many past occasions, I'm not sure why someone would expect him to say otherwise. So far, I don't see how his advice benefited them, but maybe this time...

So you say but a good enough guest to be interviewed by the redoubtable Andrew Marr who will along with his team have done appropriate due diligence before inviting him onto the programme.

Edited January 12 by beautifulthailand99

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

So you say but a good enough guest to be interviewed by the redoubtable Andrew Marr who will along with his team have done appropriate due diligence before inviting him onto the programme.

And? He's also interviewed Jeremy Corbyn.....lol

[Morch]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

So you say but a good enough guest to be interviewed by the redoubtable Andrew Marr who will along with his team have done appropriate due diligence before inviting him onto the programme.

 

It's not 'so I say', you can look up his many comments, biography, writing and views.

As for being on Marr's show, what does it have to do with anything? Corbyn was on it as well.

Being anti-Israel, anti-Zionist does not bar people from being interviewed.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I quoted a Guardian opinion from the piece. I also provided a link to my quote. 

 

You are welcome

 

Incorrect. The comment is a direct quote from the RSA lawyer: From the OP....

 

Her colleague Tembeka Ngcukaitobi said there had been “reiteration and repetition of genocidal speech throughout every sphere of state in Israel” such that “the evidence of genocidal intent is not only chilling, it is also overwhelming and incontrovertible”.

[Bkk Brian]

35 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Incorrect. The comment is a direct quote from the RSA lawyer: From the OP....

 

Her colleague Tembeka Ngcukaitobi said there had been “reiteration and repetition of genocidal speech throughout every sphere of state in Israel” such that “the evidence of genocidal intent is not only chilling, it is also overwhelming and incontrovertible”.

Correct, however does not distract from the link supplied with evidence of its bias

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, freeworld said:

Have not seen any of it, away from home since morning.

 

   You missed this bit . the South African delegation picking his nose live on TV

 

 

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The precise counterpoint to what you posted and you call my post incendiary garbage yet you can't look in the mirror. You are deliberately being inciteful.

 

@ozimoron

 

What is wrong with you? Seriously. You cannot seem to follow even your own posts, who you responded to, and what was said - yet defiantly make bogus claims regarding this.

 

The post you replied to was not @Jingthing's, but @Bkk Brian's. There was no 'counterpoint' - it was a comment on the The Guardian's stance and bias. You just jumped in, again, apparently with little but a foggy notion what you were replying to.

 

You keep doing this sort of thing over and over again. Maybe post less and read more.

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You missed this bit . the South African delegation picking his nose live on TV

 

 

There was someone a lot more sinister sitting behind him. While the Israeli side had Hostage parents in the audience, the South African side had ex terrorists.

 

Jabarin is a senior former member of the PFLP terror organization who recently announced that his people took part in the deadly terror attack of October 7.

▪️He was tried and convicted for his military activity in the PFLP and has served multiple prison sentences.

▪️Jabarin has employed several operatives of the PFLP in Al-Haq, all of which have served sentences in Israeli prisons on the grounds of terrorist activity.

 

https://twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1745799447089442906

https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1745800345899475164

 

[Bkk Brian]

Spokesperson of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs

 

"The Israeli legal team dismantled today South Africa’s case, one false accusation after the other! 

South Africa tried to use the people of Gaza as legal human shields to protect Hamas’ crimes. 

By supporting Hamas, South Africa itself is in violation of the anti genocide convention! 

I am incredibly proud to be part of this amazing team!"

https://twitter.com/LiorHaiat/status/1745824133827457223

 

[simple1]

12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Correct, however does not distract from the link supplied with evidence of its bias

That's new! Factual reporting equates to bias - LOL

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

That's new! Factual reporting equates to bias - LOL

Only if you ignore what I wrote. You can still present facts and be bias. Media does it all the time. Do I really need to explain how that is done?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

That's new! Factual reporting equates to bias - LOL

 

It possible to report the facts, and still do so in a biased manner. It's all about presentation, and which facts are included.

 

Here's a similar comment from earlier in this conflict:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1314367-the-children-of-gaza-more-than-7000-killed/#comment-18553795

 

The Guardian's general stance on things Israel is nothing new.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

It possible to report the facts, and still do so in a biased manner. It's all about presentation, and which facts are included.

 

Here's a similar comment from earlier in this conflict:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1314367-the-children-of-gaza-more-than-7000-killed/#comment-18553795

 

The Guardian's general stance on things Israel is nothing new.

 

The Guardian is quoting from Court proceedings presumedly highlighting to attract interest in the proceedings. We know the Court has no power to enforce findings: in reality some postering by RSA. However, IMO, some people should be somewhat cautious on critic of RSA given Israel offered strategic weapons to SA during the apartheid regime; not a black and white situation regards morality. Generally the Guardian is highly regarded and has won a number of awards for it's reporting and investigations. I responded to the other member as personally I am bored with right wing misrepresentation of facts on this forum.

 

Now how about returning to topic...

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

The Guardian is quoting from Court proceedings presumedly highlighting to attract interest in the proceedings. We know the Court has no power to enforce findings: in reality some postering by RSA. However, IMO, some people should be somewhat cautious on critic of RSA given Israel offered strategic weapons to SA during the apartheid regime; not a black and white situation regards morality. Generally the Guardian is highly regarded and has won a number of awards for it's reporting and investigations. I responded to the other member as personally I am bored with right wing misrepresentation of facts on this forum.

 

Now how about returning to topic...

Assuming I am giving a right wing misrepresentation of facts on this forum is a false accusation;

 

https://camera-uk.org/topic/guardian/

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

The Guardian is quoting from Court proceedings presumedly highlighting to attract interest in the proceedings. We know the Court has no power to enforce findings: in reality some postering by RSA. However, IMO, some people should be somewhat cautious on critic of RSA given Israel offered strategic weapons to SA during the apartheid regime; not a black and white situation regards morality. Generally the Guardian is highly regarded and has won a number of awards for it's reporting and investigations. I responded to the other member as personally I am bored with right wing misrepresentation of facts on this forum.

 

Now how about returning to topic...

 

The choice of which words are used as headlines, or what is quoted - these may also imply or serve and editorial stance. Different venues cover the same events in different ways. Nothing new. Saying that the Guardian is 'highly regarded' is neither here nor there. I'm not a right-winger and I can still acknowledge the bias. Obviously, you could say the same about Israeli media (never mind Arab or Palestinian sources).

 

While not entirely on topic, ran into this bit:

 

South Africa under-19 cricket captain stood down over anti-war protest fears

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/12/south-africa-stand-down-under-19-cricket-captain-david-teeger-anti-war-protest-fears

 

David Teeger: Axing of South Africa U19 cricket captain sparks antisemitism row

https://www.bbc.com/sport/africa/67957459

 

South Africa strips Jewish U19 cricket skipper of captaincy, citing anti-Israel protests

https://www.timesofisrael.com/south-africa-strips-jewish-u19-cricket-skipper-of-captaincy-citing-anti-israel-protests/

 

Note different sources downplay/highlight different aspects of story.

 

On a personal note, even after spending some years in India, I still don't get the point of cricket.

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

The public hearings on the request for the indication of provisional measures submitted by the Republic of South Africa in the case concerning Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel), which opened on 11 January 2024, concluded on 12 January 2024. The Court will now begin its deliberation.

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240112-pre-01-00-en.pdf

[xylophone]

On 1/12/2024 at 10:31 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You missed this bit . the South African delegation picking his nose live on TV

 

 

He was hoping to pick a winner!!

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/12/2024 at 3:01 PM, CharlieH said:

“Genocides are never declared in advance but this court has the benefit of the past 13 weeks of evidence that shows incontrovertibly, a pattern of conduct and related intention that justifies a plausible claim of genocidal acts,” the South African lawyer Adila Hassim told the court.

It's not like they were being reticent about their intent. Indeed they seemed proud to say it. All broadcast on Al Jazeera news.

 

While I doubt the court case will help the Palestinians, given the shameful conduct of western leaders in ignoring the slaughter, it is no longer possible for the gutless western leaders to pretend it's just "self defense" or some such nonsense.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/12/2024 at 10:01 PM, Tropicalevo said:

Methinks that one should consider the membership of the UN.

There are 56 Muslim nations - most, if not all, anti Jewish.

There is 1 Jewish nation.

Votes are likely to be a tad biased against the Jews???

There is 1 Jewish nation.

I remember someone on the forum claiming that israel is "only for Jews" isn't true. It's certainly true that many Arabs are also israeli citizens, so which is it? A Jewish nation, or a nation with a majority of Jews?

 

Methinks that one should consider the reasons for any anti israeli ( note, not anti Jewish- let's get that right ) bias by any nations in the UN. Reasons such as illegal occupation, illegal land theft, oppression and collective punishment against a people based on their ethnicity ( racism ).

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/12/2024 at 7:29 PM, xylophone said:

As I have posted earlier, one solution would be the complete and utter destruction of Gaza and of Hamas, and possibly moving the Palestinians out so that Hamas can no longer infiltrate and work to destroy Israel.

Even Biden disagrees with you.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-netanyahu-biden-6e9b74682a61f8327727d44df644534b

The United States has laid out a much different vision. Top officials have said they will not allow Israel to reoccupy Gaza or further shrink its already small territory.

Edited January 14 by thaibeachlovers

[CharlieH]

Inflammatory trolling post and subsequent responses removed.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not like they were being reticent about their intent. Indeed they seemed proud to say it. All broadcast on Al Jazeera news.

 

While I doubt the court case will help the Palestinians, given the shameful conduct of western leaders in ignoring the slaughter, it is no longer possible for the gutless western leaders to pretend it's just "self defense" or some such nonsense.

 

 

 

Most of these comments were made by right-wing politicians who are not actually in a position to control the war effort. This was addressed both on this forum and on Israel's reply to the South Africa's complaint. That you should repeat it like it was fact, and without context - is not surprising.

 

Your issues with the West are well known, to take your words on anything related  as serious is a choice.

[retarius]

On 1/12/2024 at 10:25 AM, Hawaiian said:

It might disappoint you when some impartial entities see that genocide has not happened.

I've read that some cases have taken years to settle.  I really don't know how long it will take and don't care to make a guess, especially since I am not a legal scholar nor an expert on genocide.

Of course the genocide hasn't happened yet. The purpose of SA;'s highly commendable action at ICC is to prevent a genocide. Anyone killing more civilians and women and children than Hamas fighter is pursuing a genocide. In this day and age with targeted munitions there is no reason at all for such civilian casualties. Look at the ratio of civilian to 'enemy' deaths in Gaza versus Ukraine. There are, relatively speaking, very few civilian casualties in Ukraine compared to military deaths. 

Israeli policy of killing hundreds of women and children in a school, hospital or church, if they "think" a some Hamas fighters may be there, is the root cause. And this is not defence, it is attempted genocide.  

[expat_4_life]

On 1/12/2024 at 12:06 PM, Morch said:

 

Methinks that you conflate between words and actual action.

It might become what you say. So far, though? Not so much.

Are votes cast in the UN not actions?  There has been a shift in international opinion that does not favor the US and/or Israel.

https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/see-how-32-countries-moved-away-us-and-israel-latest-un-cease-fire-vote

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, expat_4_life said:

Are votes cast in the UN not actions?  There has been a shift in international opinion that does not favor the US and/or Israel.

https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/see-how-32-countries-moved-away-us-and-israel-latest-un-cease-fire-vote

The title to that article is latest UN ceasefire vote. However its not the latest, the latest is from the UN Security Council, it does not include a ceasefire but does include telling Hmas to release all hostages without pre conditions immediately.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

Of course the genocide hasn't happened yet. The purpose of SA;'s highly commendable action at ICC is to prevent a genocide. Anyone killing more civilians and women and children than Hamas fighter is pursuing a genocide. In this day and age with targeted munitions there is no reason at all for such civilian casualties. Look at the ratio of civilian to 'enemy' deaths in Gaza versus Ukraine. There are, relatively speaking, very few civilian casualties in Ukraine compared to military deaths. 

Israeli policy of killing hundreds of women and children in a school, hospital or church, if they "think" a some Hamas fighters may be there, is the root cause. And this is not defence, it is attempted genocide.  

Wrong, SA have made baseless allegations of Genocide happening now and previously before Oct 7th.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, retarius said:

Of course the genocide hasn't happened yet. The purpose of SA;'s highly commendable action at ICC is to prevent a genocide. Anyone killing more civilians and women and children than Hamas fighter is pursuing a genocide. In this day and age with targeted munitions there is no reason at all for such civilian casualties. Look at the ratio of civilian to 'enemy' deaths in Gaza versus Ukraine. There are, relatively speaking, very few civilian casualties in Ukraine compared to military deaths. 

Israeli policy of killing hundreds of women and children in a school, hospital or church, if they "think" a some Hamas fighters may be there, is the root cause. And this is not defence, it is attempted genocide.  

 

That would be you framing things to fit you argument. There is no such basic tenet that says more-civilian-than-combatant-casulaties-is-genocide. As opposed to your nonsense claims, most wars in this day and age still see civilian casualties, especially when fighting takes place in densely populated urban settings - again, something you made up. In Ukraine, the territory involved is much much larger, civilians have the options to remove themselves from battle zones - but you knew all that when you posted.

 

As for you citing Israeli 'policy' - that's again a figment of your imagination, there is no such policy. Israel was not even bombing the Gaza Strip on 6/10.

 

And got to love the logic - starts with 'of course the genocide hasn't happened yet', and as froth levels rise, ends with 'it is attempted genocide'. Get a grip.

Edited January 15 by Morch

[Morch]

7 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

Are votes cast in the UN not actions?  There has been a shift in international opinion that does not favor the US and/or Israel.

https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/see-how-32-countries-moved-away-us-and-israel-latest-un-cease-fire-vote

 

No, it's just casting votes on the UNGA. Actions would be cutting off relations, sanctions, boycotts and so on.

Since most UNGA votes are declarative, non-binding and do not carry any real censure, they are just way to 'do something' without doing anything much.

[Nick Carter icp]

14 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Brace yourselves

 

Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel) Request for the indication of provisional measures The Court to deliver its Order on Friday 26 January 2024 at 1 p.m

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240124-pre-01-00-en.pdf

 

   That is 3 times that you've posted that now , you could get done for spamming 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That is 3 times that you've posted that now , you could get done for spamming 

 

Posted in every current thread, as I feel it could be the most important decision made by this court.