Pot industry pushes back against draft law that would put an end to Thailand’s cannabis revolution

[shunter]

Far too many loud-mouthed farangs boast about their cannabis knockout labs and others brag about their growing, selling, and exporting of cannabis backed it is claimed by an international merchant bank on TikTok.  It does not sit well with those in power, nor competitors either. How long before such farangs will be removed by fair or foul actions? 

[IamNoone88]

The land of Compromise. Wait and see. Full poetic license was taken over the original intention for "medical purposes" only. That needle may swing back to the middle ground as always.

[impulse]

Pot industry pushes back against draft law that would put an end to Thailand’s cannabis revolution

 

 

Draft law, or daft?

 

 

Edited January 15 by impulse

[quake]

29 minutes ago, shunter said:

Far too many loud-mouthed farangs boast about their cannabis knockout labs and others brag about their growing, selling, and exporting of cannabis backed it is claimed by an international merchant bank on TikTok.  It does not sit well with those in power, nor competitors either. How long before such farangs will be removed by fair or foul actions? 

 

You blame the Falangs for all this.

Your mad mate.

Stop smoking to much gear, so early in the morning.

 

 

Edited January 15 by quake

[Gecko123]

I don't see how you're going to get rid of recreational use without re-criminalization, and I don't see how backtracking on this issue is politically viable. Every time I hear the argument that "the cat is already out of the bag" and too much economic damage will be done if legalization is reversed, I have to chuckle.

 

It makes me think about some of the road widening projects I've seen over the years where the road widening effectively destroyed road side businesses by eliminating parking and walkways. I remember in particular years ago when they widened the road on Koh Chang, and there was this bar that was in the way. After the road was widened you could literally sit at the end of the bar and reach up and touch cars as they drove by.

 

In Thailand, there seems to be an "eminent domain" and "common good" mentality which doesn't hesitate before running roughshod over business and financial interests when it is deemed necessary or in the common good. Westerners also seem to think that the Thai government can be tied up in court for decades when business or financial interests are harmed, which more often than not does not appear to be the case. Those rules don't seem to apply in Thailand.

 

I also think that those who are arguing that recreational use will continue to flourish because doctors will just start handing out rubber stamped prescriptions for cannabis are kidding themselves. It's my guess that medical prescriptions will be closely monitored, and doctors in cahoots with cannabis shops will quickly find that their cannabis prescription writing privileges have been revoked.

 

Edited January 15 by Gecko123

[Bday Prang]

41 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Open the window, look outside

And one will see the sun. which is  , if I am not mistaken, liable to cause melanoma when enjoyed recreationally whist at the same time having certain medical benefits.

Yet there are no calls for   sunbathing to be made illegal, wth penalties of imprisonment for those who choose to indulge. or refuse to cover up   Sensibly there is just advice which people are perfectly at liberty to either  follow, or,  ignore  at their own discretion,  without the risk of prosecution and the burden of a criminal record, 

[JimboB4]

Actually it wouldn’t put an end to anything even if it was passed. 🤣🤣

[JimboB4]

As usual just talk and nothing to worry about. Nothing is going to change unless they require medical cards again like before. 

[crazykopite]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

They should fight these changes with everything they have, the people who have invested a fortune into these stores and cannabis related businesses depend on the government to support them and the last thing they need right now is a flip-flop and a restart of the war on recreational drugs, which is a ridiculous pursuit on the part of any government. They should hire lobbyists, they should pay off senators, they should do whatever they need to do to make sure no changes take place with this law. 

Trouble is the government constantly flip flop as they pass laws with little research i don’t do any form of drugs what worries me more the amount of deaths on the roads it’s time they introduced proper driving test like the western countries 

[helloagain]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

Thailand has enough to deal with regarding alcohol - it does not need another drug rampaging society, excessive use of weed has been shown to cause long term brain damage - many studies have shown this

Exactly. It's not what the shop owners want it's what the government want. If it's passed then start jailing them. BUT, they should have made a decision and stick to it not pussy foot around. 

[Dogmatix]

The OP from Thai Examiner is very verbose but doesn't refer to any details of the draft bill or what transpired at the public consultation session on Friday.  

 

After the complaints that Cholnan had reneged on his promise for public consultation on the Cannabis Bill, they did in fact hold one yesterday after making the draft available somewhere, or maybe on request, as I can't find it.  Here is at least part of the public consultation meeting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6ZRR6GY1Nc. It was rather poorly attended by people in the weed business.  Small business people asking questions, but unfortunately no legal hotshots challenging the draft.  Most of them seemed like very ordinary guys trying to make a living but not very knowledgeable about legal matters. So can be easily ridden roughshod over.  I thought they had better legal muscle from articles I had read.  The biggest complaints were about Section 25, the prohibition on recreational use, and a ridiculous, broad definition of recreational in the law.  There are penalties for recreational use of a fine of I think 60lk and or 1 year in jail but also penalties for the seller. They asked how can they know, if they sell for medicinal use and someone uses it for fun. The definition of recreational can overlap with medical, they pointed out, e.g, .if you take it for Parkinsons and that allows you to relax and enjoy yourself, then, it appears that you have crossed the line to recreational use. They said police would be incentivized to go into someone backyard to arrest him for smoking a joint, if the cop make an instant judgement that he was enjoying himself smoking it, even though it was for medicinal purposes.

 

Recent reports on the draft kept saying that the shops would no longer be allowed to sell dried buds but I didn't see or hear anything about that and the questions seemed to suggest they would still be able to sell buds for medicinal purposes.  Also there was no discussion of doctor prescriptions. Perhaps that is all to follow in ministerial regulations that don't need to go through parliament. The whole thing seems all very surreal, especially against a backdrop where they are planning to partially decriminalize amphetamines by not prosecuting possession of up to 5 pills. A year in prison for smoking a join for fun instead of for medicinal purposes but no prosecution for speed pills, no matter whether they were for recreational purposes or not.

[WHansen]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nonsense, they never encouraged anyone to open a cannabis shop servicing recreational cannabis - actually they said the opposite no recreational cannabis, you don't compensate stupidity.

Agreed, Thais love an easy money opportunity. If there was a market for dog legs, there wouldn't be a soi dog left in the country with all it's legs.

 

I am in no way anti weed, i smoke a couple of joints every night (compressed bush, not the outragously priced indoor grown weed) but the way everyone threw money at opening shops to make a fast buck might come back to bite them.

 

[Dogmatix]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

Thailand has enough to deal with regarding alcohol - it does not need another drug rampaging society, excessive use of weed has been shown to cause long term brain damage - many studies have shown this

So why not ban alcohol too - and cigarettes while you're about it?

[Bday Prang]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

it does not need another drug rampaging society

despite the best attempts of the media, and a handful of geriatrics on this forum I have yet to see any evidence or examples of cannabis  "rampaging society"    

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, shunter said:

Far too many loud-mouthed farangs boast about their cannabis knockout labs and others brag about their growing, selling, and exporting of cannabis backed it is claimed by an international merchant bank on TikTok.  It does not sit well with those in power, nor competitors either. How long before such farangs will be removed by fair or foul actions? 

What on earth have you been smoking?

[shunter]

At 78 years of age I have successfully avoided cannabis, judge not others as you judge yourself... Try having a dig around the assorted  influencer sites.

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Deputy Prime Minister Anutin Charnvirakul (left), leader of the Bhumjaithai Party, the architect of the runaway cannabis revolution from June 2022.

Says it all.

[Bobthegimp]

4 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Says the poster who regularly urges that the families of senators should be hounded for being in the pay of various interests...

 

He can't help it.  It's the "progressive" mindset, where the end justifies the means and the truth is a malleable concept based on what's fashionable. 

 

The fact is that no foreigner has a say in how Thais govern their country.  These dopers will bring the wrath of respectable Thais down on the rest of us.  

[kingstonkid]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

medical use might be ok, the benefits outweigh the risks/side effects as with many mainstream medications

There is no issue with medical use, but the guy on the corner that has a little stall is not selling high-grade Medical Marijuana.  

 

The businesses at NANA or on walking street in Pattaya are not selling Medical prescription Marijuana.

 

ANUTIN, as is his penchant screwed the pooch on this one.  

 

He opened the lamp, let the Genie out of the lamp, and now is in a position where he can do nothing about it and has no ability to put the Genie back in the lamp.

 

There are a lot of Elite that own either the businesses or the property that the businesses are on, paying high rent that is not going to be happy.

 

Just walk around NANA, and you can see how many shops have shown up since the law was passed.  Then, figure out how many of them will still be in business if they restrict it to medical prescription only.

 

I figure only 1 on Suk and that is because they have their own doctor.

 

The challenge now is that they have to license and have a system where they can check the quality of what is being sold.  The Indian on the corner with the below-price MJ is probably not selling good stuff.

[JimboB4]

Although they should fully promote recreational use of it. Why? Five words, money, economy, tourists good health. 

[JimboB4]

1 minute ago, JimboB4 said:

Although they should fully promote recreational use of it. Why? Five words, money, economy, tourists good health. 

Regarding nothing is going to change if you’re currently using it. 

[RobU]

3 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

You don't have to smoke it if you don't like it.

I don't give a toss if individuals get brain damage and mental health problems and an early death. It's the fact that those same individuals always cause trouble for others especially neighbours. Before you say it, the same applies to alcoholics. Follow the noise and you will always find drug abusers.

[Blumpie]

I'm happy not being high but make no judgements to those who smoke it.  No more than those that get drunk.  

 

The most preposterous thing I ever read was people touting that tourism was going to go ballistic because marijuana was legal.  No place on earth has had this happen.  I know people years ago went to Amsterdam, bla bla bla but with marijuana being so widely accepted it will never be a tourist draw.  And I do mean ever.

 

On a recent trip the cannibis stores on every corner were somewhat ridiculous in SE Asian style.  Trashy and third world looking.  It suits Thailand in a way, and I wonder how the government even allowed them to advertise like that.  

[Bobthegimp]

2 minutes ago, RobU said:

I don't give a toss if individuals get brain damage and mental health problems and an early death. It's the fact that those same individuals always cause trouble for others especially neighbours. Before you say it, the same applies to alcoholics. Follow the noise and you will always find drug abusers.

 

With alcoholics it's either mirth or fighting.  With dopers it's hysterical laughter and the sound of potato chip (crisps to the other folks) bags being ripped open. 

 

I've never known a doper who smoked a refer and slapped the s h it out of his wife and kids.  Drunks are far more difficult to deal with. 

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

They should fight these changes with everything they have, the people who have invested a fortune into these stores and cannabis related businesses depend on the government to support them and the last thing they need right now is a flip-flop and a restart of the war on recreational drugs, which is a ridiculous pursuit on the part of any government. They should hire lobbyists, they should pay off senators, they should do whatever they need to do to make sure no changes take place with this law. 

Well said.

[Dogmatix]

Now I have seen the draft bill, I have extracted key sections regarding recreational use and relevant penalties.

 

In the definitions. "Recreation means an action performed for entertainment or pleasure whether alone or with other people."

Section 25. The licensee must control and prevent the consumption of marijuana for recreational purposes in the licensed premises.

Section 42. No person is allowed to distribute marijuana, hemp, or extracts to others, whether for commercial gain or not in any of the following ways:

(1)    Distribution of marijuana, hemp, or extracts for recreational purposes.

Section 45. Consumption of marijuana, hemp, or extracts for recreational purposes is prohibited.

 

Penalties

Section 58. A licensee who violates section 25 shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year. or a fine not exceeding one hundred thousand baht or both.

Section 63. Whoever violates section 42 (1) or (2) shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or fined not more than one hundred thousand baht or both.

Section 66. Anyone who violates section 44 or section 45 shall be liable to a fine not exceeding sixty thousand baht.

 

The maximum penalty of 60,000 is pretty severe for most people but, at least, doesn't involve a prison sentence.  However, if we assume, say, a 20,000 baht fine for first offenders and more for subsequent offenders, it is pretty obvious that many Thai would end up being dumped in prison for non-payment of fines. At one day for 200 baht of unpaid fines, that could mean 100 days in prison for a first offence. 

 

It seems that the shops will be the main targets, as they will be subjected to a one year jail sentence or a 100,000 or both for distributing cannabis for recreational purposes, even though they have no way of knowing what customers are going to do with it. This law makes them sitting ducks for harassment and extortion which could force the business entirely underground with no quality control or tax.  

 

There seems to be a whole lot missing, such as how is medical use going to be administered and whether shops can still sell buds or not.  I couldn't find any references to bud, even though the minister had earlier said shops would not be able to sell them at all. They did say a couple of weeks ago that certain details would be specified later in ministerial regulations, which the way politicians amend laws with a stroke of a pen without having to go through parliament, e.g. Anutin's legalisation order in June 2022.

 

Apparently no penalties for possession with intent to use recreationally but perhaps they will add that for possession without a prescription.

Edited January 15 by Dogmatix

[RobU]

3 hours ago, Denim said:

 

Disagree entirely.  They are both drugs that effect the behavior of the taker. One is widely accepted and is behind a lot of mayhem and deaths the other is frowned on and is not known for causing aggressive behavior.

 

You can't cherry pick with drugs and just ok the ones you like and are familier with. If there is going to be an argument that cannabis is undesireable for whatever reason then those same reasons should be applied to all drugs without bias.

 

Personnaly , if there is one aspect of the cannabis legalization that I find tiresome it is the ' in your face ' advertising.  If it is illegal to have alcohol or cigarette advertising the same should apply to cannabis. That would mean no more shops with daft fronts that have become a bit of an eyesore in tourist areas.

Unfortunately excessive use of cannabis, like excessive use of alcohol does cause aggression. Excessive use of antidepressants can also cause aggression. The side effect of cannabis use is paranoia, combine that with excessive use of alcohol and you have a group of people who will erupt into violence for no apparent reason. They will get drunk and have plenty of tokes at the pub and you won't know what hit you, or why.

[RobU]

7 minutes ago, Bobthegimp said:

 

With alcoholics it's either mirth or fighting.  With dopers it's hysterical laughter and the sound of potato chip (crisps to the other folks) bags being ripped open. 

 

I've never known a doper who smoked a refer and slapped the s h it out of his wife and kids.  Drunks are far more difficult to deal with. 

Did you actually read my post? Documented fact that cannabis causes Paranoia combine that with alcohol and you have big trouble including domestic violence and murder for no reason whatsoever 

[Dogmatix]

2 minutes ago, RobU said:

Unfortunately excessive use of cannabis, like excessive use of alcohol does cause aggression. Excessive use of antidepressants can also cause aggression. The side effect of cannabis use is paranoia, combine that with excessive use of alcohol and you have a group of people who will erupt into violence for no apparent reason. They will get drunk and have plenty of tokes at the pub and you won't know what hit you, or why.

 

Unlike the case with alcohol, aggression is a fairly unusual effect of cannabis.  Falling asleep is more normal. 

 

I don't condone doping people without their knowledge under any circumstances but I recall an episode where I was an event at the seaside in Thailand and there was a farang guy who was quite drunk and was talking loudly and aggressively about the need to execute all drug dealers.  He was chain smoking cigarettes and unbeknown to myself a Thai girl had put two joints that looked like cigarettes in his cigarette pack when he went for a pee.  He smoked the joints one after the other without noticing any difference because he was so drunk.  Then all of a sudden he started modifying his tone and eventually decided that drug dealers were human beings and should be given a chance to rehabilitate.  Then he passed out in a deck chair. 

[Denim]

3 minutes ago, RobU said:

They will get drunk and have plenty of tokes at the pub and you won't know what hit you, or why.

 

I have several heavy smoking friends. None are aggressive in any way and never have been.

 

But yes , if they are already drunk and then smoke the devil in the booze can well take over.

 

On the subject of aggression , my observation of humans has been that those with an aggressive personality , both manifest and latent , can become violent with or without reason or drugs. There are those sick human beings who get their jollies from violence and aggression.