Trump wins Iowa caucuses, cementing frontrunner status in 2024 race

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Whatever was left to him by Trump re Afghanistan, the exit was Biden's responsibility and blaming Trump is just weasle words. It was long after Trump was no longer in power, so let's put the blame where it belongs, on the bumbler in chief.

Bumbler in chief?

IIRC Trump was busy playing golf and charging the American taxpayer $800K a round for accommodating his security detail.

Meanwhile, thousands of Americans were dying of COVID because masks smudged his makeup, and they were trying his quack remedies.

You certainly do have your blinkers on today.

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You omit to mention that under Trump, agreements were made with Mexico, and the wall was being built, which if completed would have reduced numbers, both of which were cancelled by bumblin' Joe.

 

 

 

Ah, the Trump wall.....

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Berkshire said:

 

Ah, the Trump wall.....

 

 

No wall in history has ever worked without men to back it up.

Good luck getting the thousands wending their way to north Mexico onto planes.

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If Trump gets back in, Ukraine will be toast, NATO will be history, and Europe will be invaded by Russia again.

Obviously, geopolitics is not your strong point.

You should have taken up comedy.

Did you forget the British and French nukes?

BTW, when was the last time Russia "invaded" Europe ( not counting Ukraine )? Perhaps you refer to WW2 when they defeated Germany all the way to Berlin and beyond.

 

If Ukraine depends on the US it is doomed anyway, IMO. Just look at history since the Korean war. I'm a big fan of the US staying out of European conflicts, or conflicts anywhere in the world. Since WW2 they usually end up badly for the country the US was "saving".

[thaibeachlovers]

34 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Despite your comments, Biden has already been elected President with 80 million votes.

 

Whereas Trump lost.

and before that Trump won. Is there any point to your post?

[Berkshire]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No wall in history has ever worked without men to back it up.

Good luck getting the thousands wending their way to north Mexico onto planes.

I think you'd agree that most of these migrants are just looking to come to America for jobs and a better life.  The wall may slow down some families and children, but will do zilch to stop drug cartels, terrorists, and other criminals.  When right wingers demonize migrants, they ALWAYS bring up the criminal elements....to fuel outrage of course.  But in reality, they simply don't want more brown people coming to America, criminals or not.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I think you'd agree that most of these migrants are just looking to come to America for jobs and a better life.  The wall may slow down some families and children, but will do zilch to stop drug cartels, terrorists, and other criminals.  When right wingers demonize migrants, they ALWAYS bring up the criminal elements....to fuel outrage of course.  But in reality, they simply don't want more brown people coming to America, criminals or not.

I agree to that and always have thought that. I also think if people can't do it the way I always did, legally, they don't have any right to do so.

The criminal thing, other than making money transporting them, has always been a red herring IMO.

As for the racist implication you use, they happen to be brown, so of course it's about brown people. In Europe they happen to apparently be mainly black and the ones trying to go to Australia were mainly Asian. Just their colour doesn't make it right to illegally enter a country looking for a better life, when they did nothing to improve the place they ran away from.

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree to that and always have thought that. I also think if people can't do it the way I always did, legally, they don't have any right to do so.

The criminal thing, other than making money transporting them, has always been a red herring IMO.

As for the racist implication you use, they happen to be brown, so of course it's about brown people. In Europe they happen to apparently be mainly black and the ones trying to go to Australia were mainly Asian. Just their colour doesn't make it right to illegally enter a country looking for a better life, when they did nothing to improve the place they ran away from.

I agree that our immigration system is broke.  No one wants open borders.  Everyone coming in should do so legally.  Problem is these other countries are such a mess and too many are trying to come.  So border cities/states are getting hammered.  No one in government has any answers, Dems or Reps.  But we pay these politicians to come up with answers.  They've got nothing. 

[morrobay]

12 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I agree that our immigration system is broke.  No one wants open borders.  Everyone coming in should do so legally.  Problem is these other countries are such a mess and too many are trying to come.  So border cities/states are getting hammered.  No one in government has any answers, Dems or Reps.  But we pay these politicians to come up with answers.  They've got nothing. 

Ya all can talk about the wall until the cows come home, with the progressives and their "reasons" why it won't work. Or until a president declares the national emergency it is and orders the Army Corps of Engineers to build a WALL from the Pacific to the Gulf. Manned by the border patrol and military, patrolled at both ends by the Coast Guard. No ands ifs or buts about it. End of Story.

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't think it's very smart to support a candidate who speaks to dead people in public, can barely speak coherently, and sniffs little girls hair in public.

 

If you actually thought about it, you wouldn't support Biden.

Identity politics at it's best; you can't fault the policies so go for the character. And let's admit it, if character was to define suitability for office, you DEFINATELY wouldn't support Trump. 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Errrr, wasn't there something that caused that, that was out of Trump's control? Hmmmmm, something like covid comes to mind.

You can't just cherry pick the good years from the bad. Trump was POTUS for 4 years, not just the first 2 or 3. He needs to be gauged on the whole time he was in office, not just the time that suits your bias. 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You omit to mention that under Trump, agreements were made with Mexico, and the wall was being built, which if completed would have reduced numbers, both of which were cancelled by bumblin' Joe.

 

 

Illegal immigration has always been an issue in America U.S. border crossing encounters 1990-2022 | Statista. No administration has been able to truly resolve the problem and none are likely to because there's just too many factors in place. But most agree that Trumps wall was just a bad idea considering that nearly 50% of illegal immigrants fly into America (visa overstay being the main reason) and the expense of building the wall v effectiveness (obviously when Mexico doesn't pay) just doesn't add up. It is literally impossible to build a wall along the US border so whatever 'gaps' are left will be exploited. Also you conflate 2 different things; Trumps 'remain in Mexico' policy was aimed at deterring asylum seekers (not illegal immigrants) and had huge implications for those it effected, with many finding themselves in tent ghetto's and subject to horrific crimes and exploitation, including kidnappings, rape, and other violent attacks. It was also illegal and widely condemned by human rights groups the world over. Biden tried to cancel this but was hampered by GOP leaning courts who reinstated the policy and it was only June 2022 that the supreme court allowed him to stop this unnecessarily cruel policy.

 

Also, you seem to cherry pick a  great deal of things about Biden such as his recent backing of Israel as if Trump would have done anything different. He isn't 'busily expanding the Gaza conflict into what may become a regional war' any more than ANY POTUS would do because America backs Israel (Israel being America's only 'proper' ally in the region). It's disingenuous to put the problems of the Middle East down to Biden when you let Trump off for his Covid years. Biden is the unfortunate one who just happens to be POTUS right now and I would argue none of this would have been any different under Trump, perhaps even worse. And don't get me started on what Trump would do with Ukraine. So far he is threatening (yet again) to leave NATO and stop suppling Ukraine which is EXACTLY what Putin would like. This to me is perhaps the most worrying of Trumps 'America First' policy and could see some major worldwide implications if this fool is allowed back into the White House. This alone should deter any rational person from backing Trump.

Edited January 18 by johnnybangkok

[johnnybangkok]

40 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Ya all can talk about the wall until the cows come home, with the progressives and their "reasons" why it won't work. Or until a president declares the national emergency it is and orders the Army Corps of Engineers to build a WALL from the Pacific to the Gulf. Manned by the border patrol and military, patrolled at both ends by the Coast Guard. No ands ifs or buts about it. End of Story.

What a completely inane idea. Do you have any idea how big an undertaking that would be?

 

The border itself is nearly 2,000 miles long (currently 700 of which is covered by a wall). It's across mountainous regions, deep valleys and deserts. The cost for construction would be in the trillions and the cost of keeping it manned would over the years match that. You would also have to acquire private land from American citizens which would not only mean that some would lose land that has been in their family for generations, but again it would cost a fortune.

Couple that with the fact that 50% of illegal immigrants arrive by air and you start to see just how stupid an idea the border wall really was and how it was just a dog whistle to Trumps more racist supporters.

[earlinclaifornia]

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

What a completely inane idea. Do you have any idea how big an undertaking that would be?

 

The border itself is nearly 2,000 miles long (currently 700 of which is covered by a wall). It's across mountainous regions, deep valleys and deserts. The cost for construction would be in the trillions and the cost of keeping it manned would over the years match that. You would also have to acquire private land from American citizens which would not only mean that some would lose land that has been in their family for generations, but again it would cost a fortune.

Couple that with the fact that 50% of illegal immigrants arrive by air and you start to see just how stupid an idea the border wall really was and how it was just a dog whistle to Trumps more racist supporters.

Don't confuse MAGA simple solutions with any truth. Proof was four years of Trump who's only contribution was increasing USA debt with his tax break for the rich. The BS Trump spewed was insane but was expected. Why these people are so blind is a whole topic in itself.

[morrobay]

For what it's worth I would very much prefer DeSantis for president. Who would follow through on the wall, restore law and order in these liberal saps run cities, and discontinue this waste of money going to the military industrial complex - I mean Ukraine from that not such a winding road from Afghanistan and Iraq. However, the present choice looks like Trump or Biden unfortunately.

[earlinclaifornia]

8 minutes ago, morrobay said:

For what it's worth I would very much prefer DeSantis for president. Who would follow through on the wall, restore law and order in these liberal saps run cities, and discontinue this waste of money going to the military industrial complex - I mean Ukraine from that not such a winding road from Afghanistan and Iraq. However, the present choice looks like Trump or Biden unfortunately.

Ron deciding to move on from NH is the end of the line as SC is a stretch.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You should have taken up comedy.

Did you forget the British and French nukes?

BTW, when was the last time Russia "invaded" Europe ( not counting Ukraine )? Perhaps you refer to WW2 when they defeated Germany all the way to Berlin and beyond.

 

If Ukraine depends on the US it is doomed anyway, IMO. Just look at history since the Korean war. I'm a big fan of the US staying out of European conflicts, or conflicts anywhere in the world. Since WW2 they usually end up badly for the country the US was "saving".

The first country to use nukes against another country will be obliterated by everyone else. Perhaps you have forgotten what the acronym MAD means.

The last time Russia invaded Europe was 2014, when it annexed Crimea illegally.

Russia has multiple gates through which it can be attacked via west or east. It had nine gates closed to the west after WWII, now it only has one. Ukraine for them is just a stepping stone.

It's a bit ironic Russia is focused on conflict in the west, where they have usually given as good as they got. The real damage to the Russian psyche has been done by invasions from the east. Mongols and Tartars.

Back on topic, I have no doubt if Trump gets in, he will jettison Ukraine. Not surprisingly, as Moscow is probably bankrolling him.

[earlinclaifornia]

26 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The first country to use nukes against another country will be obliterated by everyone else. Perhaps you have forgotten what the acronym MAD means.

The last time Russia invaded Europe was 2014, when it annexed Crimea illegally.

Russia has multiple gates through which it can be attacked via west or east. It had nine gates closed to the west after WWII, now it only has one. Ukraine for them is just a stepping stone.

It's a bit ironic Russia is focused on conflict in the west, where they have usually given as good as they got. The real damage to the Russian psyche has been done by invasions from the east. Mongols and Tartars.

Back on topic, I have no doubt if Trump gets in, he will jettison Ukraine. Not surprisingly, as Moscow is probably bankrolling him.

Some gloss over Putin's threat but we have many US Congressmen smarter than flaky posters.

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No wall in history has ever worked without men to back it up.

Good luck getting the thousands wending their way to north Mexico onto planes.

 

Only two walls have ever been built to stop migration as opposed to stopping invaders of the armed kind. They are in Israel and Germany. Both relied on shooting people who attempted to cross the wall. Meanwhile, 70% of US illegal immigrants arrive on planes.

[pomchop]

20 hours ago, LosLobo said:

The Lancet found that roughly 40 percent of the nation’s COVID deaths—as many as 188,000 people out of nearly 470,000—could have been avoided. 

 

This figure was attributed to various factors in the Trump administration’s response to the pandemic, including the downplaying of COVID, promoting unproven treatments, and de-emphasizing public health.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/10/us-coronavirus-response-donald-trump-health-policy

 

I know two old friends both of whom were major trumpers and watched fox news non stop and bought all of trumps "it's a hoax" BS. Both adamantly and vocally refused to get vaccinated or take any precautions  died early in the covid times with tubes shoved down their throats.  Trump did not bomb them or spray them with agent orange but there is no doubt these two otherwise healthy men were killed by Trump's BS lies and refusal to take covid seriously.  Their wives were both vaxxed and caught covid as well but had very mild cases.

 

Now trump continues to spout lie after lie and promotes violence and apparently would love to have his maga morons violently overthrow any election that trump does not win.

 

  Truly amazing that the majority of repubs still think the 2020 election was "stolen" ....coming up on 4 years and still the long awaited "proof" promised by the Big Liar is yet to appear.  What has appeared since the election is 60 court cases that rejected trumps claims as well as recounts and investigations galore mostly done by republicans there is still NO evidence of a rigged election....and of course fox fake news got to write a bit 780 million dollar check to dominion voting after being found guilty by a jury for their lies claiming dominion somehow magically rigged the election.  I wish that a few of these repubs who refuse to accept real evidence would end up in a court room charged with some crime and the other side had no evidence that they did it...then let's see how they feel about people with no evidence making up lies.

[Lacessit]

44 minutes ago, pomchop said:

I know two old friends both of whom were major trumpers and watched fox news non stop and bought all of trumps "it's a hoax" BS. Both adamantly and vocally refused to get vaccinated or take any precautions  died early in the covid times with tubes shoved down their throats.  Trump did not bomb them or spray them with agent orange but there is no doubt these two otherwise healthy men were killed by Trump's BS lies and refusal to take covid seriously.  Their wives were both vaxxed and caught covid as well but had very mild cases.

 

 

I always thought it was a shame Trump did not meet the same fate with COVID. He had the best taxpayer-funded medical care at Walter Reed Hospital.

I can't recall him ever expressing gratitude to the medicos for saving his life. Just continued to ignore the risk to his followers, with more political rallies.

[morrobay]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Only two walls have ever been built to stop migration as opposed to stopping invaders of the armed kind. They are in Israel and Germany. Both relied on shooting people who attempted to cross the wall. Meanwhile, 70% of US illegal immigrants arrive on planes.

No those that arrived by plane had visas and went through US immigration and customs. They were legal but overstayed their visa. The non visa, non inspected that cross are the true illegals. And are more likely to be criminals of all sortshttps://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/08/jorge-ramos/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/

[Danderman123]

7 hours ago, morrobay said:

Ya all can talk about the wall until the cows come home, with the progressives and their "reasons" why it won't work. Or until a president declares the national emergency it is and orders the Army Corps of Engineers to build a WALL from the Pacific to the Gulf. Manned by the border patrol and military, patrolled at both ends by the Coast Guard. No ands ifs or buts about it. End of Story.

The vast majority of illegals come into the US via legal ports of entry.

 

It's pretty obvious you are misinformed about illegal immigration. It turns out that Biden is catching more of those who walk across the desert than Trump.

[Danderman123]

29 minutes ago, morrobay said:

No those that arrived by plane had visas and went through US immigration and customs. They were legal but overstayed their visa. The non visa, non inspected that cross are the true illegals. And are more likely to be criminals of all sortshttps://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/08/jorge-ramos/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/

Plane, bus or car, a huge number of illegals are those who come in via legal ports of entry, and then overstay.

[Danderman123]

22 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Biden is too old. His communication skills appear weak. This is for President. Emperor's new clothes and all that.

He may deep down have the skills but I can't see the electorate buying it. They'll ask how can we trust his judgement and vote for him if he himself cannot see he should not be running. 

I see his only chance if the opposition is totally damaged goods and I accept Trump may fit the bill. 

Were you an Obama supporter?

[pomchop]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I always thought it was a shame Trump did not meet the same fate with COVID. He had the best taxpayer-funded medical care at Walter Reed Hospital.

I can't recall him ever expressing gratitude to the medicos for saving his life. Just continued to ignore the risk to his followers, with more political rallies.

I am surprised that trump didn't claim that he refused treatment because one of the doctors was from some shxt hole country or that he trump was told that "sir you are so strong and powerful you need no treatment"...in other words the usual BS lies.

 

How many republicans lost family members or friends to covid due to trumps trying to claim it would all be gone in a few days, that masks were for sissies and the vaxx (which he of course had) was some kind of left wing rabbit hole conspiracy theory plot to implant bill gates secret tracking device. ...and amazingly some of these people still believe every lie that pops out day after day.

 

Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  Fool me every single day...MAGA
 

[morrobay]

42 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The vast majority of illegals come into the US via legal ports of entry.

 

 

What is that supposed to mean?? If they came in via legal ports of entry then they are legal at entry. What happens is they overstay their visa and then are in U S illegally. Maybe you should read the link above to clear up your confusion.  This category is not same as those who cross the border without visa or US inspection. So the overstayers need to be rounded up and and sent back. The other category can be blocked with a WALL. Comprende ??

 

 

[candide]

3 hours ago, pomchop said:

I know two old friends both of whom were major trumpers and watched fox news non stop and bought all of trumps "it's a hoax" BS. Both adamantly and vocally refused to get vaccinated or take any precautions  died early in the covid times with tubes shoved down their throats.  Trump did not bomb them or spray them with agent orange but there is no doubt these two otherwise healthy men were killed by Trump's BS lies and refusal to take covid seriously.  Their wives were both vaxxed and caught covid as well but had very mild cases.

 

Now trump continues to spout lie after lie and promotes violence and apparently would love to have his maga morons violently overthrow any election that trump does not win.

 

  Truly amazing that the majority of repubs still think the 2020 election was "stolen" ....coming up on 4 years and still the long awaited "proof" promised by the Big Liar is yet to appear.  What has appeared since the election is 60 court cases that rejected trumps claims as well as recounts and investigations galore mostly done by republicans there is still NO evidence of a rigged election....and of course fox fake news got to write a bit 780 million dollar check to dominion voting after being found guilty by a jury for their lies claiming dominion somehow magically rigged the election.  I wish that a few of these repubs who refuse to accept real evidence would end up in a court room charged with some crime and the other side had no evidence that they did it...then let's see how they feel about people with no evidence making up lies.

And It's not only an anecdote, it also shows in statistics!

 

Republicans' excess death rate spiked after COVID-19 vaccines arrived, a study says

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/25/1189939229/covid-deaths-democrats-republicans-gap-study

"More specifically, the researchers say, their adjusted analysis found that "the excess death rate among Republican voters was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters" after vaccine eligibility was opened."

 

Dumber than dumb! 😃

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree to that and always have thought that. I also think if people can't do it the way I always did, legally, they don't have any right to do so.

The criminal thing, other than making money transporting them, has always been a red herring IMO.

As for the racist implication you use, they happen to be brown, so of course it's about brown people. In Europe they happen to apparently be mainly black and the ones trying to go to Australia were mainly Asian. Just their colour doesn't make it right to illegally enter a country looking for a better life, when they did nothing to improve the place they ran away from.

IIRC Trump was not averse to employing Mexicans in his properties as a source of cheap labor, before he started his Nazi shtick of "poisoning the blood". Many Republicans have done the same.

The real reason the GOP does not want them in America is they tend to vote Democrat when they get citizenship, and Republicans are outnumbered on the popular vote already.

You cite Australia as one of the examples of illegal immigration. We are having having truckloads of trouble from various legal immigrants. We are also spending billions of dollars on detention centres.

Personally, I would let them all come, legal and refugees. Probationary period, then citizenship. If they misbehave, they get deported back to the sh!thole they came from, including any families they have.

 

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, morrobay said:

What is that supposed to mean?? If they came in via legal ports of entry then they are legal at entry. What happens is they overstay their visa and then are in U S illegally. Maybe you should read the link above to clear up your confusion.  This category is not same as those who cross the border without visa or US inspection. So the overstayers need to be rounded up and and sent back. The other category can be blocked with a WALL. Comprende ??

 

 

Nope.

 

Loads of asylum seekers present themselves at legal ports of entry.

 

Then, there are those with fake papers that come in by the busload to work the big farms.

 

That leaves a relatively small number who try to walk in, and most of those are caught by Border Patrol.

 

But Trump is going to replace the Wall with something else:

 

https://politicalwire.com/2024/01/08/trump-calls-for-giant-dome-to-protect-the-u-s/

[Fat is a type of crazy]

55 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Were you an Obama supporter?

Yes. Open to being a Republican if they stuck to the economics with a bit of heart thrown in but there's always so much nonsense that goes with their side of politics.

I consider myself in the middle in Australian politics which is to the left in American terms. I like Biden and his policies except get confused by things like immigration.  I sense in these pages the democrat leaning posters including myself sometimes are focusing on the anti Trump, which is easy fare, and not acknowledging that Biden has done well but, I could be wrong, four more years will be a very difficult sell to the electorate and Democrat alternatives make so much more sense. 

Edited January 18 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

And It's not only an anecdote, it also shows in statistics!

 

Republicans' excess death rate spiked after COVID-19 vaccines arrived, a study says

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/25/1189939229/covid-deaths-democrats-republicans-gap-study

"More specifically, the researchers say, their adjusted analysis found that "the excess death rate among Republican voters was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters" after vaccine eligibility was opened."

 

Dumber than dumb! 😃

Death rates in Republican states were invariably higher than those in Democrat states.

It's a matter of conjecture how many deaths the Trump political rallies contributed.