Co-owner being difficult

[alyx]

Good morning  Thank you for taking the time to read my question: The painting of a 22 story building  has been  voted by the General Assembly and will start soon. One ( malicious) co-owner is trying to stop the Juristic  from doing  it and… forbids the  workers  to paint the eternal walls I surrounding his flat

Result: the outside wall of 191 flats will be painted and  one flat will not be ….leaving a dirty stain on the face of the building

 Can this person stop us fro m painting ( from the outside ) ?

If he  can, is it possible ro sue him for damaging the image of the building ?

 

thanks 

( kindly comment on the legal approach of this matter and refrain from commenting the behaviour of the parties involved) 

 

have a great day 

[scubascuba3]

He can't stop you painting the communal areas, he only owns inside his condo and balcony.  Use a lawyer if necessary payable by owners via juristic office.

 

Maybe he has mental issues, you could involve the police also. My condo, had the police come round for a meeting and said anymore trouble and you'll be deported

Edited January 20 by scubascuba3

[sungod]

I would have thought that external areas are common property, it will be in the rules somewhere for who is responsible for what.  I dont think he has a say.

[2baht]

Life's a bitch..................then you die! 

[alyx]

14 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

He can't stop you painting the communal areas, he only owns inside his condo and balcony.  Use a lawyer if necessary payable by owners via juristic office.

 

Maybe he has mental issues, you could involve the police also. My condo, had the police come round for a meeting and said anymore trouble and you'll be deported

Exactly my response ( for the first part 😊 but I was told by a lawyer on the team that the definition of the common area is the parts susceptible to be used by everyone 

that does confuse me 

 

The balcony, ok but the walls on either side of is unit ?

[alyx]

23 minutes ago, sungod said:

I would have thought that external areas are common property, it will be in the rules somewhere for who is responsible for what.  I dont think he has a say.

yep 
you are talking about the condominium act or the internal regulations ?

actually that is my question: to whom the external walls belong ?

[alyx]

23 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Maybe he has mental issues, you could involve the police also. My condo, had the police come round for a meeting and said anymore trouble and you'll be deported

He is Thai and he has been suing the committee (and me in particular, which I could not care less ) so many times that I have lost count, threatening the Police and even the judges , forcing the Committee to plan a special decision on top of the general decisions  

On going cases for a couple of years already, finding ways to delay their courses and defy everybody

The only one in the building...it is his way of life

[scubascuba3]

13 minutes ago, alyx said:

Exactly my response ( for the first part 😊 but I was told by a lawyer on the team that the definition of the common area is the parts susceptible to be used by everyone 

that does confuse me 

 

The balcony, ok but the walls on either side of is unit ?

of course he is wrong, find a different lawyer. Look in your condo rules and regulations

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, alyx said:

He is Thai and he has been suing the committee (and me in particular, which I could not care less ) so many times that I have lost count, threatening the Police and even the judges , forcing the Committee to plan a special decision on top of the general decisions  

On going cases for a couple of years already, finding ways to delay their courses and defy everybody

The only one in the building...it is his way of life

Maybe we live in the same building. We also have a guy like that in "my" building.

Because of this actions lots of important work is delayed.

In the case of the building where I live it seems at the end the building won court cases. But it takes forever and cost money.

[alyx]

59 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe we live in the same building. We also have a guy like that in "my" building.

Because of this actions lots of important work is delayed.

In the case of the building where I live it seems at the end the building won court cases. But it takes forever and cost money.

As a matter of fact he has held hostage the previous committee (since 1990 ...until I took over and hopefully we will win but he is so sneaky that he confuses the courts (at least tries to) by mixing all events and twisting the facts

After two years,  he made a mistake and I am serving him a taste of his own medicine by suing him for defamation 

It must be noted that we have hired an excellent legal team even though our income is quite low ... it is worth it

 

[newnative]

    The condo clearly owns and has the responsibility to maintain the exterior walls, roof, balcony railings, etc. of a condo project.  This includes painting the exterior of the building when needed.  It becomes more of a gray area when the two side walls, floor, and ceiling of a condo's balcony are considered. 

    If you look up at View Talay 3, for example, you will see that some owners have changed the ceilings of their balconies, from the standard white particleboard to brown stained wood.  Some have added extra balcony ceiling lights.  Over at Jomtien Complex, some owners have glassed in or screened in their balconies, using different kinds of enclosure styles, colors, and patterns.  If you look at Metro condo, you will see balcony railings of 2 or 3 different colors--or at least that was the case last time I was there.

    When my spouse and I owned a condo at Northshore, as part of the renovation we added a custom balcony clothes dryer cabinet, and during the renovation process the  2 balcony side walls were painted white.  It was only later, when we were driving on Beach Road and I looked up at the condo, that I realized that the other balcony walls were not white but the tan/mauve color of the building.  

     Whether the owners were within their rights, or not, with the above examples, depends on the condo project's rules and regulations.   In the case of the OP, I think he needs to check the condo's bylaws, which, if properly written, should clearly spell out what is allowed, and not allowed, in regard to a condo's balcony, windows, etc.

[stoner]

2 hours ago, alyx said:

If he  can, is it possible ro sue him for damaging the image of the building ?

 don't be surprised if he turns around and sues all of you for making his property look bad. 

[sungod]

2 hours ago, alyx said:

yep 
you are talking about the condominium act or the internal regulations ?

actually that is my question: to whom the external walls belong ?

Should be in your bye laws. You need to check out the definition of 'common areas.'

[stoner]

2 hours ago, 2baht said:

Life's a bitch..................then you die! 

 

then you marry one...then you die. 

[alyx]

2 hours ago, stoner said:

 don't be surprised if he turns around and sues all of you for making his property look bad. 

well ...decision of the general assembly ....he should have contested within a month of the vote which he has not ... furthemore there is no colour change ,,, just refreshing

[alyx]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

Should be in your bye laws. You need to check out the definition of 'common areas.'

thanks

[jippytum]

The juristic manager has legal control of the common area and if the co owners have agreed to repaint this area and approved finance for the project a restraining order on the silly co owner should be obtained legally. After a warning letter from the management. 

[Reigntax]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:44 PM, alyx said:

He is Thai and he has been suing the committee (and me in particular, which I could not care less ) so many times that I have lost count, threatening the Police and even the judges , forcing the Committee to plan a special decision on top of the general decisions  

On going cases for a couple of years already, finding ways to delay their courses and defy everybody

The only one in the building...it is his way of life

Maybe he needs a mental assessment which of course he will fail 

[brianthainess]

Sounds like he has an issue with anybody looking through his windows, ask what he has to hide, has he a wife? has he recently brought a new freezer.

[Fairynuff]

On 1/20/2024 at 1:27 PM, 2baht said:

Life's a bitch..................then you die! 

I’m sure the OP appreciates your valuable and well thought out response to his question.

[scorecard]

On 1/20/2024 at 1:50 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe we live in the same building. We also have a guy like that in "my" building.

Because of this actions lots of important work is delayed.

In the case of the building where I live it seems at the end the building won court cases. But it takes forever and cost money.

 

We had issues in our BKK condo and the outside management company tried to ac like thugs. I attended a couple of AGMs after we moved in, Manager started the meetings by saying that owers were not allowed to speak at AGMs, and must vote as directed by the o'side mngr. 

 

Then a snr. cop bought a big unit and he asked questions of the o'side manager why xxx etc., had not been taken care of. O'side manager got angry with snr. cop and told him to leave the lobby area immediately and not return.

 

Cop got a police lawyer to study the rules created when the building was completed and the laws involved, then give snr. cop a briefing. Snr. cop invited about 10 other owners to attend the briefing.

 

Snr. cop then had noticed put under every door announcing an extraordinary AGM to be held 2 weeks hence, notice signed by 10 owners. All suggested by the second cop. 

 

O'side mngr threatened to have both cops arrested. Nothing happened.

 

Extraordinary AGM started, o'side mngr and her staff didn't appear and soon discovered they had fled.

 

Snr. cop started the meeting and shared some interested facts and laws. then asked for ideas from all owners how to proceed.

 

Within 2 hrs a new owners committee and chairperson had been confirmed (90% same as previous committee).

 

Second cop (from outside) asked if any owner had questions about the law etc. Many questions, all clearly answered.

 

Meanwhile the old chairperson had requested that the outside accountant appear and bring all accounting records. They arrived and o'side cop had an experienced accountant start an audit.

 

First item: the old accountant (still present) was asked to explain the full details of the insurance on the building. Can be summarised easily:

- Cheques drawn and cleared for the preceding 4 or 5 years fr the premiums.

- Not paid to the insurance company.

- Therefor building did not have any insurance at all for previous 4 or 5 years.

 

O'side cop asked if any owners would like him to immediately arrest the old accountant for fraud. All hands went up. She did about 5 years jail.

 

Plus it was revealed that the o'side manager who had fled was a full time employee of a gov't agency and was collecting all salary and benefits but   never attended her gov't office. She was found, also did about 5 years jail. 

 

This is life...

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

O'side cop asked if any owners would like him to immediately arrest the old accountant for fraud. All hands went up. She did about 5 years jail.

 

Plus it was revealed that the o'side manager who had fled was a full time employee of a gov't agency and was collecting all salary and benefits but   never attended her gov't office. She was found, also did about 5 years jail. 

Good that the bad guys were arrested.

 

We had two managers who both did shady business. But they still showed up and behaved like they are the people who do everything right. And some owners still supported them. Later more was revealed and the old managers didn't come to the building anymore. But it seems there are no actions happening to challenge those old managers in court and hopefully they should be in jail one day.

It seems many owners don't want that the bad guys have to pay for their actions. Sad. But it seems that is not unusual.

[Skeety65]

On 1/20/2024 at 1:08 PM, alyx said:

Good morning  Thank you for taking the time to read my question: The painting of a 22 story building  has been  voted by the General Assembly and will start soon. One ( malicious) co-owner is trying to stop the Juristic  from doing  it and… forbids the  workers  to paint the eternal walls I surrounding his flat

Result: the outside wall of 191 flats will be painted and  one flat will not be ….leaving a dirty stain on the face of the building

 Can this person stop us fro m painting ( from the outside ) ?

If he  can, is it possible ro sue him for damaging the image of the building ?

 

thanks 

( kindly comment on the legal approach of this matter and refrain from commenting the behaviour of the parties involved) 

 

have a great day 

Im currently servicing as a committee member in a large Jomtein condominium and I can tell you that if the painting of the building has been agreed by the co-owners at a AGM then there’s absolutely nothing he can do about it. If he tries to obstruct the work being carried out then get your Thai management company to contact the police and have them come round to talk to him.  Most of the management company’s have a contact in the police who gets tea money each month so they’re be happy to assist. It might take just one visit to make this co-owner think twice about his actions however if he continues to obstruct the work he can be arrested for obstruction. Believe me there’s always at least one of these unsavory characters in every condo. We are currently dealing with one ourselves who is actually on his death bed but he is still trying to sue the committee for making improvements to our restaurant. He’s taken out the legal action in his company’s name so even if he dies the legal action will continue. Yes there are a some crazy people around and this fella sounds like one so good luck. 

On 1/20/2024 at 1:08 PM, alyx said:

Good morning  Thank you for taking the time to read my question: The painting of a 22 story building  has been  voted by the General Assembly and will start soon. One ( malicious) co-owner is trying to stop the Juristic  from doing  it and… forbids the  workers  to paint the eternal walls I surrounding his flat

Result: the outside wall of 191 flats will be painted and  one flat will not be ….leaving a dirty stain on the face of the building

 Can this person stop us fro m painting ( from the outside ) ?

If he  can, is it possible ro sue him for damaging the image of the building ?

 

thanks 

( kindly comment on the legal approach of this matter and refrain from commenting the behaviour of the parties involved) 

 

have a great day 

 

[Dan O]

On 1/20/2024 at 1:34 PM, alyx said:

Exactly my response ( for the first part 😊 but I was told by a lawyer on the team that the definition of the common area is the parts susceptible to be used by everyone 

that does confuse me 

 

The balcony, ok but the walls on either side of is unit ?

Common areas are hallways, entrances and exits and elevators. Areas where anyone living there has access to and can use. Exterior walls, and roof and sometimes exterior windows are considered master entity of the building as they support and  protect everyone but can not be used by anyone specifically. 

[treetops]

Paint it when he's out.

[alyx]

Hey everyone

 

Reviving this thread to ask a legal question

 

The above cited difficult co-owner is filing lawsuit after lawsuit against me personally and the Committee.

 

It is fine by me but the point is that he is accusing me of  having commanded the breaking of his car, stolen from the co-owners ....

This is ok because his lies will easily be proven but the lawyers say that no defamation case may be brought against him because his claims are only known by the court and this guy has carefully not spread it  In short no witnesses to whom he would have talked.

 

My question: is there a law somewhere in the Thai legal system to convict such false accusations or prevent this  from filing again ?

 

I am kind of tired of this troublemaker who wakes up and has nothing better to do but to file lawsuit based on his fantasy, notwithstanding the fact that he files with the civil court, hence he has no expense nor conviction whereas we have to pay the lawyers.and waste my time

 

Thanks for any insight

 

[PJ71]

17 hours ago, alyx said:

Hey everyone

 

Reviving this thread to ask a legal question

 

The above cited difficult co-owner is filing lawsuit after lawsuit against me personally and the Committee.

 

It is fine by me but the point is that he is accusing me of  having commanded the breaking of his car, stolen from the co-owners ....

This is ok because his lies will easily be proven but the lawyers say that no defamation case may be brought against him because his claims are only known by the court and this guy has carefully not spread it  In short no witnesses to whom he would have talked.

 

My question: is there a law somewhere in the Thai legal system to convict such false accusations or prevent this  from filing again ?

 

I am kind of tired of this troublemaker who wakes up and has nothing better to do but to file lawsuit based on his fantasy, notwithstanding the fact that he files with the civil court, hence he has no expense nor conviction whereas we have to pay the lawyers.and waste my time

 

Thanks for any insight

 

Sounds like you need to find something better to do with your life, why bother with all this hassle.

 

Never understood all these farang jobsworths on committees etc, who needs the hassle.

 

I own  a condo ( as a second property ) that i use once or twice a month for a few days, get all the newsletters and invited to the AGMs ( or whatever they're called ) and just think wtf, i think there's only about 5-6 people bother going to them tbh.

[soi3eddie]

On 1/20/2024 at 7:55 AM, alyx said:

As a matter of fact he has held hostage the previous committee (since 1990 ...until I took over and hopefully we will win but he is so sneaky that he confuses the courts (at least tries to) by mixing all events and twisting the facts

 

Our building of 99 units is pretty harmonious with decent owners. But, there's always one, and ours is a Thai owner who's a cheap charlie middle aged guy. At an AGM five years ago, he made a comment "we don't all have money like farang". I was the only farang present.

Our gym needed equipment replacing after 11 years. The cost of replacement equated to just 165 Baht per condo unit per year. Some proposed closing the gym or repurposing it into a library or common room (that's something that newer condos have and some residents camp out in the common room as they don't want to pay to use air conditioning in their own unit). I argued that although few use the gym, by not having a gym, the resale value of their unit or rental prospects might be affected. Anyway, sense prevailed and we got the gym equipment replaced.

 

[alyx]

8 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Sounds like you need to find something better to do with your life, why bother with all this hassle.

 

Never understood all these farang jobsworths on committees etc, who needs the hassle.

 

I own  a condo ( as a second property ) that i use once or twice a month for a few days, get all the newsletters and invited to the AGMs ( or whatever they're called ) and just think wtf, i think there's only about 5-6 people bother going to them tbh.

Well, that is not related to my query but thanks for your input

[alyx]

7 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

Our building of 99 units is pretty harmonious with decent owners. But, there's always one, and ours is a Thai owner who's a cheap charlie middle aged guy. At an AGM five years ago, he made a comment "we don't all have money like farang". I was the only farang present.

Our gym needed equipment replacing after 11 years. The cost of replacement equated to just 165 Baht per condo unit per year. Some proposed closing the gym or repurposing it into a library or common room (that's something that newer condos have and some residents camp out in the common room as they don't want to pay to use air conditioning in their own unit). I argued that although few use the gym, by not having a gym, the resale value of their unit or rental prospects might be affected. Anyway, sense prevailed and we got the gym equipment replaced.

 

It all depends on how strong your committee is. Mine is a one voice, one vote and I have been revamping the building in two years ( first time anything, but changing the bulbs in the lobby, had been done) . One just needs a majority of the votes from the co-owners attending the second call.