Everything that's wrong with EVs ... an endless list

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Let's pull that back a bit. Yes ICE vehicles can be better choice if your climate is Canada cold many months a year. But ICE vehicles are not "happy" at -50C, unless they are specifically designed for it. 

I'd agree they are not happy when first starting up, once warmed up they would be OK. At that temperature they might need modified fuel.

Don't you guys get around on snowmobiles? Let me guess, there's no battery-operated model yet.

[retarius]

18 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Don't know about worldwide, but in USA, per # of vehicles affected, Tesla didn't even make the top 10 last year:

 

 

*** how accurate, don't know, don't care, just happen to be link at top of search results.

Wo= need to look at the % of cars on the road vs the number of recalls. In the US Honda is the most popular car....there are zillions on the roads....despite being the EV of choice, there are many fewer Teslas on the road. We need to know the % of Teslas vs the % of Another brand to compare.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

along with being plugged into a heating element overnight and preferably in a garage if wanting to start the next day, or after a few hours at the pub/restaurant.   Not an endorsement for drunk driving.

It's a moot point whether plugging in the car lowers the viscosity of the oil in the crankcase, or keeps the battery used to start it warm enough to function properly. Probably both.

[Drumbuie]

19 hours ago, retarius said:

It isn't hatred. You seem to spend good portion of your life defending your decision to buy an EV. That's totally OK, but you can't seriously expect to avoid criticism from people whop don't agree with you.

 

I bought a Japanese made Toyota Alphard last year, petrol engine and I am very happy with it. I don't ever feel the need to have to defend my purchase to anyone. You or all the forum members might think vans are the stupidest things on the planet, but I like mine and need to convince myself that I made the right decision buying it.

As for EVs, I don't want an EV....yet. If I had lots of money and wanted a 4th car, I might buy a high end one to use occasionally. I think EVs might be a sensible choice in 5 years time when we have charging stations at every PTT and other distributor garages. Trouble is the chargers are costly and have an uncertain payback period for a franchisee. 

 

I think the jury is still out as to whether there will be any significant benefit to the environment. The only information available now tends to be sponsored by EV manufacturers, who are not disinterested parties. I have been lied to by corporations enough over the years to know that I want to see much better data from more unbiased parties that don't have a vested interest in telling me how marvellous EVs are.

 

Think of it this way, if EVs are the wave of the future, you are right in your decision. If it turns out they are an expensive gimmick, you will have been wrong. We simply don't know at the moment. My personal view is that like other technologies, EVs will improve over the next few years, prices will come down relatively speaking, and some of the disadvantages will be overcome, like range, or concerns about child labour and environmental damage. It is like computers, I was an early adopter and found out that two years later I could get 10 times the computer for half the money I had paid. I realised then I would like to be a later adopter. 

 

Bless you, are you unaware of the amount of money the fossil fuel Industry has spent spreading disinformation about climate change and the role their emissions play in it? The car manufacturers - whether petrol, diesel or EV) are probably not far behind. A rational response would be to invest the money in better public transport and encouraging people to use bicycles again or their own two feet (walking, guys , it's good for you) and not only would the air be cleaner, everyone would be fitter, healthier, and happier. Probably a bit slimmer, too.. Heavens, some of the grumpy old guys on here might even cheer up! 

[mikebike]

27 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I probably forgot the thin air aspect.

Wake me up when there is a battery capable of supporting aviation with passenger aircraft.

[mikebike]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'd agree they are not happy when first starting up, once warmed up they would be OK. At that temperature they might need modified fuel.

Don't you guys get around on snowmobiles? Let me guess, there's no battery-operated model yet.

Most snowmobiles are still 2 strokes, an ICE vehicle, but very different in the cold. 

[HighPriority]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's a moot point whether plugging in the car lowers the viscosity of the oil in the crankcase, or keeps the battery used to start it warm enough to function properly. Probably both.

So, now we are talking about ice vehicles needing additives in their fuel and needing heating to be able to start them in extreme cold, and antifreeze in the radiator… 🤣

But do tell us more about the dumb Tesla drivers and their foolish ev’s in the cold recently… 🙄

 

[retarius]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

If people consider OTA software updates a recall, then EVs certainly are a POS.  Our MG ZS has one of those recalls, for the past 6 months or more.   So we haven't driven it, as I haven't done the update/recall yet.

 

How can I drive a vehicle that I can't use all the functions of Google or Apple play properly until updated.   It's nothing but a 1750 kg road hazard that sits at our carport. 😂

Khun LA, I have a few questions here. Are OTA updates not really over the air, do you have to install the new software or patches manually? You cannot use the car without Google or Apple pay, would the car not run with these updates? Would it really be a road hazard? 

In other messages you have used the terms BEV is this Battery EV as in it uses the battery exclusively? And ICEV....does this mean hybrid? Thanks

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, Drumbuie said:

 

Bless you, are you unaware of the amount of money the fossil fuel Industry has spent spreading disinformation about climate change and the role their emissions play in it? The car manufacturers - whether petrol, diesel or EV) are probably not far behind. A rational response would be to invest the money in better public transport and encouraging people to use bicycles again or their own two feet (walking, guys , it's good for you) and not only would the air be cleaner, everyone would be fitter, healthier, and happier. Probably a bit slimmer, too.. Heavens, some of the grumpy old guys on here might even cheer up! 

Another rational response would be putting passenger vehicles on a diet.

My 1974 Honda Civic weighed 680 kg. The same Honda Civic in 2023 weighs 1353 kg, almost double. Imagine how fuel efficient that Honda would be if it went back to the 1974 weight.

[vinny41]

Not all diesel engines are belching toxic and smelly fumes when they are serviced according to their schedule

and diesel is used in the parts delivery to EV production plants, during production, distribution of EV from factory to designated country and from entry port to local dealer

 

Some manufacturers in Thailand already meet Euro 5 or 6 compliance for their engines

 

Prepare to receive! Euro 5 car standards come into force on 1 Jan. 2024 for small diesel cars - all types of trucks.

https://www.mreport.co.th/news/government-news/306-mandates-euro-5-emission-standards-for-vehicles-starting-2024

Euro 5 the standard for diesel fuel on January 1st 2024

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40034126

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, Drumbuie said:

 

Bless you, are you unaware of the amount of money the fossil fuel Industry has spent spreading disinformation about climate change and the role their emissions play in it? The car manufacturers - whether petrol, diesel or EV) are probably not far behind. A rational response would be to invest the money in better public transport and encouraging people to use bicycles again or their own two feet (walking, guys , it's good for you) and not only would the air be cleaner, everyone would be fitter, healthier, and happier. Probably a bit slimmer, too.. Heavens, some of the grumpy old guys on here might even cheer up! 

Agree, but I'm not going to walk 14 hrs to my favorite coffee shop/restaurant, when I can be there in less than an hour if I drive ... 😂

 

 

Point taken though.  I used to razz the wife, as she drove to the park to exercise, less than 1 kms away, instead of riding her bike.   After pointing out the hypocrisy, she changed her ways.

[retarius]

9 minutes ago, Drumbuie said:

 

Bless you, are you unaware of the amount of money the fossil fuel Industry has spent spreading disinformation about climate change and the role their emissions play in it? The car manufacturers - whether petrol, diesel or EV) are probably not far behind. A rational response would be to invest the money in better public transport and encouraging people to use bicycles again or their own two feet (walking, guys , it's good for you) and not only would the air be cleaner, everyone would be fitter, healthier, and happier. Probably a bit slimmer, too.. Heavens, some of the grumpy old guys on here might even cheer up! 

Of course I'm aware that the petrol industry raises the climate change science. I have written as much to the delight of the people on here, knowing as I do having been a university post-grad and post doc, the importance of grants and how they say researchers to do studies that support the narrative. 

I totally agree that we would be better off walking, especially for those short 1-2 km journeys that Americans always use cars for, because there is no useful public transport. But in cities, take Paris for an example, where you don't have the mammoth fatties that you do in the US, people walk and the women are slim, it is because it is a ball ache to get the car out, then find a parking space afterward. The problem is rural areas where there is no public transport. Where I live it is 7kms to the nearest shop. I can't spend 4 hours each day to walk to buy food and then back, lugging the groceries. We do have motors bikes but tbh I do not like the Missus riding them because of the idiots on the road. 

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, retarius said:

Wo= need to look at the % of cars on the road vs the number of recalls. In the US Honda is the most popular car....there are zillions on the roads....despite being the EV of choice, there are many fewer Teslas on the road. We need to know the % of Teslas vs the % of Another brand to compare.

How's this ... better ?

 

 

[retarius]

55 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You seriously didn't know why planes fly at higher altitudes ?

 

 

 

Actually, if your car is tuned properly for colder air, it may run more efficient.

 

Comparing jet engines with ICEs is a bit of a stretch.

[HighPriority]

9 minutes ago, retarius said:

Khun LA, I have a few questions here. Are OTA updates not really over the air, do you have to install the new software or patches manually? You cannot use the car without Google or Apple pay, would the car not run with these updates? Would it really be a road hazard? 

In other messages you have used the terms BEV is this Battery EV as in it uses the battery exclusively? And ICEV....does this mean hybrid? Thanks

Can you understand ev owners frustration when someone as anti ev/pro ice as yourself eventually asks questions as fundamental as these ?

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, retarius said:

Comparing jet engines with ICEs is a bit of a stretch.

Guilt as charged ... 😂

 

Just wanted to experience being a troll ... not fulfilling at all 😂

[retarius]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

How's this ... better ?

 

 

Better but I need to see the denominators for the the previous league table. This tallies with experience, Ford make <deleted>ty vehicles (I still own one I bought for my wife to learn to drive in and it has a recall over the crap gearbox) and Honda don't. But we do have to understand what are minor recalls and what are serious one. I do hate this aggregation of data done by other persons and like to see the actual data myself, before drawing conclusion.....many folk look at the same data and draw different conclusions. 

[retarius]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Guilt as charged ... 😂

 

Just wanted to experience being a troll ... not fulfilling at all 😂

hahahaha

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

So, now we are talking about ice vehicles needing additives in their fuel and needing heating to be able to start them in extreme cold, and antifreeze in the radiator… 🤣

But do tell us more about the dumb Tesla drivers and their foolish ev’s in the cold recently… 🙄

 

Batteries are batteries, irrespective of whether they are in an ICE or an EV. Both are less functional in the cold.

Antifreezes have two functions, they also elevate the boiling point of the radiator fluid.

 

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/states-of-matter-and-intermolecular-forces/mixtures-and-solutions/v/boiling-point-elevation-and-freezing-point-supression

 

Before you get too excited, batteries in EV's need cooling as well, to prevent thermal runaway.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

The top reason people buy EVs is virtue signalling and cognitive dissonence. There are other reasons though - I have a mate back in Oz with a Tesla S and it is awesome.  But he has a lot of money and to him it is like an expensive toy. If I had that sort of money and was in Australia I would buy a Tesla. No way I would or will ever buy a cheap EV car - and in Thailand I would never buy any EV vehicle.  That thing was almost as quick as my S1000RR - around a racetrack it would blow me away (cornering speed).

 

I know another bloke in Aust that had a Toyota EV and one day it just would not start. He had to get it towed to his house and when the Toyota mechanic arrived days later, he could not figure out the problem. They took it back to the workshop and after a while they ascertained that the rear passenger door sensor was screwed and therefore the car woiuld not start - no lights or warnings - it was hidden deep - and only the high-end Toyota 'reader' device could find it.  He refused to take the car back and demanded a trade-in - he got a great deal on a Toyota hybrid.

 

Why would I buy a car that has the potential to leave me high and dry - either due to 'software' programming issues, or a lack of charging stations, and in 5-10 years the battery is going to be massively expensive when it fails, and the value of used EVs is awful and getting worse.  IMO they are not that good for the environment - that is a 'belief' being pushed hard by vested interests. 

 

If/when an EV spontaneously catches fire and people's lives are lost (boat, carpark, building basement, etc), this whole EV fanaticism will fall apart like a deck of cards.  This guy is just one of the many car expert pundits calling out the EV lunacy - watch the whole playlist.

 

 

[Lacessit]

16 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Agree, but I'm not going to walk 14 hrs to my favorite coffee shop/restaurant, when I can be there in less than an hour if I drive ... 😂

 

 

Point taken though.  I used to razz the wife, as she drove to the park to exercise, less than 1 kms away, instead of riding her bike.   After pointing out the hypocrisy, she changed her ways.

Your favorite coffee shop /restaurant is 61 km away? Barbaric.

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, retarius said:

Comparing jet engines with ICEs is a bit of a stretch.

They both use fossil fuels, and obey the same thermodynamic laws.

[KhunLA]

25 minutes ago, retarius said:

Khun LA, I have a few questions here. Are OTA updates not really over the air, do you have to install the new software or patches manually? You cannot use the car without Google or Apple pay, would the car not run with these updates? Would it really be a road hazard? 

In other messages you have used the terms BEV is this Battery EV as in it uses the battery exclusively? And ICEV....does this mean hybrid? Thanks

I was being sarcastic, to my knowledge, none, most of the OTA/Over The Air updated would stop you from operating the car, I don't think.  Though may make the driver assist functions perform better, possibly safer, if you even use them.

 

Ours is simply a media player update, I think.   Has nothing to do with any aspect of actually driving or driver assist apps.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I was being sarcastic, to my knowledge, none, most of the OTA/Over The Air updated would stop you from operating the car, I don't think.  Though may make the driver assist functions perform better, possibly safer, if you even use them.

 

Ours is simply a media player update, I think.   Has nothing to do with any aspect of actually driving or driver assist apps.

You'll have to start putting sarcasm alerts on your posts, your brand is just too subtle for at least two of us.

[vinny41]

EV SHOCK: Head of world's No1 automaker Toyota says battery EVs will never account for more than 3 in 10 vehicles sold - as 'customers not regulations or politics will decide' fate

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/article-12996281/toyota-chairman-evs-market-share.html

[OneMoreFarang]

19 hours ago, retarius said:

As for EVs, I don't want an EV....yet. If I had lots of money and wanted a 4th car, I might buy a high end one to use occasionally. [...]

 

I think the jury is still out as to whether there will be any significant benefit to the environment. 

I don't remember where I read it. Something like: The production of EVs is so environmental unfriendly that an EV has to be use for more than 80,000km before its environmental impact becomes positive.

 

So it seems environmentally they only make sense for people who drive them a lot and for a long time.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Your favorite coffee shop /restaurant is 61 km away? Barbaric.

Tell me about it, though really nice, and few kms away is Ban Krut beach.

 

Here's the plus of owning the EV for us, as we go there once every week or 2.   If owning an ICEV, we probably wouldn't bother, as the petrol would end up costing more than the meal.   They make a nice green curry & roti, along w/smoothies & pastries.  And a lovely setting.

 

The EV gets us out of the house so much more than the ICEV did.  Any trip under 250 kms R/T is basically free transport w/solar vs 500-600 baht, depending on petrol price.

 

The other best spot I like is the other direction, and about 30 minutes away.   Awesome pandan pancakes:

 

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

  IMO they are not that good for the environment - that is a 'belief' being pushed hard by vested interests. 

 

 

To be fair, they do help reduce air pollution in city environments.

However, while power stations are still using fossil fuels as the source of about 70% of the world's electricity, they are not saving the planet, and never will. For the most part, EV's simply transfer the CO2 emissions to an electricity supplier.

[retarius]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

They both use fossil fuels, and obey the same thermodynamic laws.

Yes but the amount of oxygen in the air decreases dramatically as you go higher....it is not do with the temperature but the molecular weight of oxygen. Both engines will perform less well on low oxygen tensions, jet engines will perform less poorly....but there is a reason why commercial jets don't fly at 100,000 feet despite the claimed increased efficacy in the charts in Khun LA's post. 

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't remember where I read it. Something like: The production of EVs is so environmental unfriendly that an EV has to be use for more than 80,000km before its environmental impact becomes positive.

 

So it seems environmentally they only make sense for people who drive them a lot and for a long time.

80,000 kms is a lot now ... 😎