Nok Air’s Boeing 737 max 8 plans hit turbulence

[webfact]

Thai airline Nok Air’s plans to introduce Boeing 737 Max 8 jets are facing unexpected headwinds.

 

Safety anxieties soar amid recent incidents within the 737 Max family, casting shadows over Nok Air’s ambitious fleet expansion.

 

Amidst the clouds of uncertainty, Nok Air, having already committed to lease eight Boeing 737 Max 8s, is grappling with safety concerns that have grounded the aircraft in the United States following the latest mishap with an Alaska Airlines 737 Max 9.

 

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand have echoed the cautious stance, grounding these planes until further notice.

 

Wutthiphum Jurangkool, Nok Air’s CEO, reveals a meticulous approach.

“We plan to gauge passenger sentiment and prioritise safety by closely monitoring FAA instructions before accepting delivery, scheduled for 2025.”

 

by Puntid Tantivangphaisal

Photo courtesy of Bangkok Post

 

Full story: The Thaiger 2024-02-03

 

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[jollyhangmon]

... whatever, just make sure you escape before the next, uhh, 'quality escape', lol ...

 

[dingdongrb]

I never knew 'plans' could fly.

[Georgealbert]

The max 8 and max 9 are different planes, and the FAA did not recently ground the max 8 only the max 9.

 

“Boeing's 737 MAX program currently operates two variants, the MAX 8 and MAX 9.

 

The MAX 8 is the most popular in the max family, with 1,176 aircraft currently in service and at least 1,971 more on order. This aircraft variant is certified and fitted to fly.

 

The main difference between the MAX 8 and MAX 9 is that the MAX 9 is longer, measuring 138 ft. 4 in. (42.16 m), while the MAX 8 measures 129 ft. 8 in. (39.52 m). 

 

According to Boeing's specifications, the MAX 8 can seat about 162 to 178 passengers. The MAX 9, the largest in the family, can seat 178 to 193 passengers, with a maximum of 220 depending on the configuration.”

 

The max 8 previously had problems following two fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019, and the FAA grounded the plane for 20 months and mandated significant software and training improvements. Lion Air Flight 610 on October 29, 2018 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 on March 10, 2019. That grounding ended on November 18, 2020.

 

Thai VietJet Air have also ordered 50, 737 max aircraft, unconfirmed variant, during the 2022 Farnborough Airshow. The first 12 aircraft to be delivered is expected in 2024.

Edited February 3 by Georgealbert

[retarius]

I'll be avoiding Non Air for the foreseeable future until they ditch these deathtraps. There are plenty of Airbus planes that can be used, so why use planes from Boeing who have abused the self certification system time and time again?

[impulse]

Hopefully, Boeing will teach their assembly guys how to use a torque wrench...  And count the parts that are left over when they're done.

 

https://samchui.com/2022/07/10/how-a-loose-bolt-caused-china-airlines-boeing-737-haul-loss/

 

https://themalaysianreserve.com/2023/12/30/boeing-warns-airlines-about-potential-loose-bolt-in-737-max-jets/

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/08/us/what-happened-alaska-airlines-flight-1282/index.html

 

[tomazbodner]

22 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

The max 8 and max 9 are different planes, and the FAA did not recently ground the max 8 only the max 9.

 

“Boeing's 737 MAX program currently operates two variants, the MAX 8 and MAX 9.

 

The MAX 8 is the most popular in the max family, with 1,176 aircraft currently in service and at least 1,971 more on order. This aircraft variant is certified and fitted to fly.

 

The main difference between the MAX 8 and MAX 9 is that the MAX 9 is longer, measuring 138 ft. 4 in. (42.16 m), while the MAX 8 measures 129 ft. 8 in. (39.52 m). 

 

According to Boeing's specifications, the MAX 8 can seat about 162 to 178 passengers. The MAX 9, the largest in the family, can seat 178 to 193 passengers, with a maximum of 220 depending on the configuration.”

 

The max 8 previously had problems following two fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019, and the FAA grounded the plane for 20 months and mandated significant software and training improvements. Lion Air Flight 610 on October 29, 2018 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 on March 10, 2019. That grounding ended on November 18, 2020.

 

Thai VietJet Air have also ordered 50, 737 max aircraft, unconfirmed variant, during the 2022 Farnborough Airshow. The first 12 aircraft to be delivered is expected in 2024.

True, but Malaysian manufactured panel to cover emergency exit is of identical design on Max 8, Max 9 and even the old 800 series. With 3/4 of United B737 Max of both variants having loose bolts on the panel when inspected following Alaska Airlines mishap, the confidence into entire B737 is shaky to say the least. And it doesn't help that Boeing employees are coming forward and admitting shoddy work due to lack of staff and unrealistic deadlines...

Edited February 3 by tomazbodner

[Woof999]

Boeing really have shot themselves in the foot bigtime. The 737 is and has for decades been their primary earner. After the MAX 8 crashes and the uncovering of MCAS and the totally unacceptable culture of deceit, they needed to be hyper focussed on safety and not put the slightest foot wrong. Instead, we get this. It may well be down to their subcontractors but that makes no difference. It's a Boeing branded plane sold by Boeing (engines, cabin and a few extras possibly excepted).

 

I was always a Boeing fan, Would always choose an airline with 737NGs over one with A320s. Flew the 737 sims at every opportunity I could, dismantled the odd 737 and traded in parts. That all changed with the MAX. It doesn't really matter what Boeing do now, they need a total rework from the top down. Until that happens I'll continue to choose the A320 family for short haul flights, whenever possible.

[Georgealbert]

16 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

True, but Malaysian manufactured panel to cover emergency exit is of identical design on Max 8, Max 9 and even the old 800 series. With 3/4 of United B737 Max of both variants having loose bolts on the panel when inspected following Alaska Airlines mishap, the confidence into entire B737 is shaky to say the least. And it doesn't help that Boeing employees are coming forward and admitting shoddy work due to lack of staff and unrealistic deadlines...

Yes fully agree, and you also have to question the FAA relationship with Boeing, as the recent grounding was only for the max 9.

 

Boeing also makes a bigger versions of its 737-900 - a predecessor to the max, which has the door plugs.

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225466035/boeing-737-max-faa-door-plug-alaska-crashes-ntsb

 

Edited February 3 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

24 minutes ago, retarius said:

I'll be avoiding Non Air for the foreseeable future until they ditch these deathtraps. There are plenty of Airbus planes that can be used, so why use planes from Boeing who have abused the self certification system time and time again?

Here is a comparison of the safety records of Boeing and Airbus.

 

https://www.solotravellerapp.com/airbus-vs-boeing-safety/#:~:text=Fatal Accidents&text=Out of these 147 accidents,it comes to fatal accidents.

[Kinnock]

Thai Lion Air fly the Max 9 .... but it's the sardine seat plan with a door where the panel blew out.

 

But all the 737 Max series are suspect in my view .... been modified too many times when a complete new design was needed.

[impulse]

On January 27, there was an excellent opinion piece in RT.com on the state of Boeing and how it got that way.  It was an opinion piece, and it is in a Russia centric news source, so I will neither post a link here, nor quote it.  But it's well worth a read.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Regarding the local aspect here with Nok....

 

According to the wiki page for Nok Air, their fleet as of December 2023 did NOT include any of the MAX aircraft -- only 737-800s, which is an older, prior version of the 737 family.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok_Air#Current_fleet

 

The OP article here says air carrier has plans to acquire Max 8s, but not for delivery until 2025.

 

 

Edited February 3 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Georgealbert]

37 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Thai Lion Air fly the Max 9 .... but it's the sardine seat plan with a door where the panel blew out.

 

But all the 737 Max series are suspect in my view .... been modified too many times when a complete new design was needed.

Sorry Thai Lion Air, only currently fly the 737-800 and 737-900ER

 

https://www.lionairthai.com/en/ThaiLionAir-Experience/Aircraft

 

The 737-900 ER can have the door plugs, but believe Thai Lion Air uses the maximum capacity, so all the exit doors are required.

Edited February 3 by Georgealbert

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

The 737-900 ER does have the door plugs.

 

Do they pack in enough seats that they require an actual emergency exit at that location?

 

 

[Pique Dard]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

We plan to gauge passenger sentiment and prioritise safety by closely monitoring FAA instructions before accepting delivery, scheduled for 2025.”

...you plan to prioritize safety?  well, simply cancel the order! in the light of all these incidents and even fatal accidents,  this  aircraft manufacturer is far more concerned with its shareholders and  passenger safety seems to be the least of its worries, indeed

[Georgealbert]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Do they pack in enough seats that they require an actual emergency exit at that location?

 

 

For the 737-900 ER, the airlines may deactivate (plug) the additional exit doors if the total configured capacity of the plane is 189 passengers or less.

 

I have never flown with them, as had a bad experience with Lion Air in Indonesia, and always pick another airline.

 

Thai Lion Air website shows the capacity of the 737-900ER as 215, one class layout, so if they flew to this capacity the exit doors is required.
 

I believe the airline flys to this increased capacity.

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

I never knew 'plans' could fly.

But they can soar?

[mfd101]

Could someone remind me what plane it is we take 2 or 3 times a year with Air Asia from Buriram to Don Muaeng and back?

 

Should we be reverting to the 9-hour bus trek from Surin which we used to take years ago and loved so much?

[Georgealbert]

Thai Air Asia is all Airbus, mostly A320 with a couple of A321.

 

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Could someone remind me what plane it is we take 2 or 3 times a year with Air Asia from Buriram to Don Muaeng and back?

 

Should we be reverting to the 9-hour bus trek from Surin which we used to take years ago and loved so much?

 

[mfd101]

T

2 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Thai Air Asia is all Airbus, mostly A320 with a couple of A321.

 

 

Thanks. Phew.

[Georgealbert]

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

T

Thanks. Phew.

 

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

 

Sorry but like all aircraft the airbus A320 and A321 are not incident free, but still a very safe plane. I don’t want to be accused of not giving a balanced view.

 

Still safer than a bus.

 

https://aviation-safety.net/database/types/Airbus-A320/database

 

https://aviation-safety.net/database/types/Airbus-A321/database

 

 

 

[Kinnock]

3 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Sorry Thai Lion Air, only currently fly the 737-800 and 737-900ER

 

https://www.lionairthai.com/en/ThaiLionAir-Experience/Aircraft

 

The 737-900 ER can have the door plugs, but believe Thai Lion Air uses the maximum capacity, so all the exit doors are required.

Thai Lion Air had a big fanfare about receiving their new 737 Max.  They were also listed in an FAA report post the Alaska Air incident as a Max user.  They did stop using them after the Indonesia crash, but have started again.  This may be why some sites do not list them.

 

https://mgronline.com/onlinesection/detail/9620000025898

 

 

[Georgealbert]

26 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Thai Lion Air had a big fanfare about receiving their new 737 Max.  They were also listed in an FAA report post the Alaska Air incident as a Max user.  They did stop using them after the Indonesia crash, but have started again.  This may be why some sites do not list them.

 

https://mgronline.com/onlinesection/detail/9620000025898

 

 

Two were transferred back to Lion Air, Indonesia in 2022, and the other one is in storage since 2019, not currently flying. See record below, with registration numbers.

 

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Thai-Lion-Air?refresh=1

 

From the company website.

 

https://www.lionairthai.com/en/ThaiLionAir-Experience/Aircraft

 

Also translation of your link, which was after the 2019 crash, which announced the cancellation of flights with the Boeing 737 MAX 9 indefinitely.

 

From the case of the Boeing 737 of Ethiopian Airlines. Crashed into the world this morning (March 10) while flying en route from Addis Ababa. capital of ethiopia to Nairobi capital of kenya Make people on the plane Including 149 passengers and 8 crew members, all died. This airline issued a statement. While it is also reported that The plane that crashed this time was the same model as the Lion Air that crashed in Indonesia in October last year. Later, the 

"Thai Lion Air" page came out to say that Thai Lion Air has a fleet of Boeing's planes. ING 737 MAX 9 (BOEING 737 MAX 9), only 3 aircraft, and would like the public to be confident that the airline's planes Closely inspecting the quality and safety of aircraft in every sector. Later, on 

March 13, Thai Lion Air issued another announcement via Facebook regarding Announcement of temporary cancellation of flights with Boeing 737 Max 9 aircraft from 14 March 2019 onwards.

Recently today (March 15), Thai Lion Air announced the cancellation of flights with the Boeing 737 MAX 9 indefinitely. By stating the message that 

"According to the latest announcement of Thai Lion Air on March 13, regarding the temporary cancellation of flights with the Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft, after following the latest situation, The airline would like to inform you of the cancellation of flight operations as well. Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft will depart indefinitely in order to comply with safety standards and comply with international practices. Thai Lion Air continues to believe that the airline has inspected the quality and Aircraft safety in all sectors is closely and regularly controlled. of the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand Including training of flight operators according to specified standards and regulations. By adhering to safety standards first."
 

 

 

Edited February 3 by Georgealbert

[retarius]

4 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Here is a comparison of the safety records of Boeing and Airbus.

 

https://www.solotravellerapp.com/airbus-vs-boeing-safety/#:~:text=Fatal Accidents&text=Out of these 147 accidents,it comes to fatal accidents.

Yes Boeing involved in more accidents, with numerically hull and fatal. What you are missing is Boeing's flagrant abuse of self certification. If it's all the same to you, I'd feel safer in an Airbus. 

[Georgealbert]

20 minutes ago, retarius said:

Yes Boeing involved in more accidents, with numerically hull and fatal. What you are missing is Boeing's flagrant abuse of self certification. If it's all the same to you, I'd feel safer in an Airbus. 

I never said which was safer, I posted facts and data.

 

I also posted this link 4 hours ago reference FAA and Boeing.

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225466035/boeing-737-max-faa-door-plug-alaska-crashes-ntsb

 

Each can reach their own conclusions, based on the facts.

 

Total aircraft in operation by type.

 

 

Edited February 3 by Georgealbert

[retarius]

1 hour ago, Georgealbert said:

I never said which was safer, I posted facts and data.

 

I also posted this link 4 hours ago reference FAA and Boeing.

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225466035/boeing-737-max-faa-door-plug-alaska-crashes-ntsb

 

Each can reach their own conclusions, based on the facts.

 

Total aircraft in operation by type.

 

 

Go away what do I want to read an eye chart for? I've made up my mind already that I will avoid Boeing planes. I'm going back to the US in a few weeks and no Boeing planes for me Airbus 380s all the way, none of your Boeing crap.

[Georgealbert]

47 minutes ago, retarius said:

Go away what do I want to read an eye chart for? I've made up my mind already that I will avoid Boeing planes. I'm going back to the US in a few weeks and no Boeing planes for me Airbus 380s all the way, none of your Boeing crap.

That limits your choice of airlines to Emirates, British Airways, Korean Air, All Nippon, Qantas, Asiana, and Lufthansa as the only 7 airlines that were planning to fly A380 to USA this winter.

 

I believe a few of them have stopped using the A380 on some or all routes, already.

 

i could post further details, but don’t want to bore you.

[BenStark]

7 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

The max 8 and max 9 are different planes, and the FAA did not recently ground the max 8 only the max 9.

 

“Boeing's 737 MAX program currently operates two variants, the MAX 8 and MAX 9.

 

The MAX 8 is the most popular in the max family, with 1,176 aircraft currently in service and at least 1,971 more on order. This aircraft variant is certified and fitted to fly.

 

The main difference between the MAX 8 and MAX 9 is that the MAX 9 is longer, measuring 138 ft. 4 in. (42.16 m), while the MAX 8 measures 129 ft. 8 in. (39.52 m). 

 

According to Boeing's specifications, the MAX 8 can seat about 162 to 178 passengers. The MAX 9, the largest in the family, can seat 178 to 193 passengers, with a maximum of 220 depending on the configuration.”

 

The max 8 previously had problems following two fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019, and the FAA grounded the plane for 20 months and mandated significant software and training improvements. Lion Air Flight 610 on October 29, 2018 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 on March 10, 2019. That grounding ended on November 18, 2020.

 

Thai VietJet Air have also ordered 50, 737 max aircraft, unconfirmed variant, during the 2022 Farnborough Airshow. The first 12 aircraft to be delivered is expected in 2024.

 

Let me add the website from which you did your awesome copy and paste job.

 

https://businesstravelerusa.com/news/flying-on-boeing-737-max-planes-what-you-need-to-know/

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

The max 8 and max 9 are different planes, and the FAA did not recently ground the max 8 only the max 9.

 

“Boeing's 737 MAX program currently operates two variants, the MAX 8 and MAX 9.

 

The MAX 8 is the most popular in the max family, with 1,176 aircraft currently in service and at least 1,971 more on order. This aircraft variant is certified and fitted to fly.

 

The main difference between the MAX 8 and MAX 9 is that the MAX 9 is longer, measuring 138 ft. 4 in. (42.16 m), while the MAX 8 measures 129 ft. 8 in. (39.52 m). 

 

According to Boeing's specifications, the MAX 8 can seat about 162 to 178 passengers. The MAX 9, the largest in the family, can seat 178 to 193 passengers, with a maximum of 220 depending on the configuration.”

 

The max 8 previously had problems following two fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019, and the FAA grounded the plane for 20 months and mandated significant software and training improvements. Lion Air Flight 610 on October 29, 2018 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 on March 10, 2019. That grounding ended on November 18, 2020.

 

Thai VietJet Air have also ordered 50, 737 max aircraft, unconfirmed variant, during the 2022 Farnborough Airshow. The first 12 aircraft to be delivered is expected in 2024.

 

Y'all got shares in Boeing then?

 

Some infrequent fliers hear "737 MAX" and their <deleted> pucker. The CEO of Nok is right to be reticent. The public perception needs to be properly addressed, and the best way Boeing can get away from that is totally by dropping this 'MAX' label from all their products on offer.

 

But first, they do need to stop cutting corners and build airplanes and avionics that are fit for purpose and not bodge jobs on air frames from the +50 years ago.