Anti-Israel or anti-semitic - Mr Azhar Ali

[TorquayFan]

In the UK, Labour's by-election candidate, Mr Azhar Ali, is in deep disgrace after ridiculous comments about Israel having somehow facilitated the Hamas attacks of October 7th, so as to lay the grounds for a response of the sort we are now seeing in Gaza.

 

Azhar Ali is undoubtedly stupid, insensitive, and totally unsuitable to stand as an MP but he has immediately been portrayed as anti-semitic, which IMO, may or may not be true, though he is obviously anti-Israel !

 

Generally I suggest, that it is possible to be anti-Israel WITHOUT being anti-semitic. In fact, over many years, many Countries have been anti-Israel on subjects such as the 'two state solution' and the settlements in the West Bank. And that's fine, to that extent I too am definitely anti- Israel. And not one iota anti-semitic.

 

Anti-Israel opinions are widely merged with anti-semitism and that IMO is an extremely dangerous distortion. It inhibits the ability to criticise Israel as motives being routinely misconstrued and discredited. Has this anomaly empowered Israel unreasonably and are we now seeing the result?

 

A 2 state solution has long been mooted. All support from the USA and others to Israel should in future be linked to pursuance of the two state solution. Otherwise, there will never be any chance of these horrors ever diminishing . . . .

[flyingtlger]

23 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

Azhar Ali is undoubtedly stupid, insensitive, and totally unsuitable to stand as an MP

What's that saying?

It takes one to know one.....

Edited February 13 by flyingtlger

[Nick Carter icp]

13 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

Generally I suggest, that it is possible to be anti-Israel WITHOUT being anti-semitic.

 

   Why are so many people Anti Israel ?

Why not Anti Yemen or Anti China ?

Maybe just a coincidence that the one Country that they are "Anti" about, just happens to be Jewish ?

[NotEinstein]

A good look under the hood of the antisemitism industry can be seen in this 2009 documentary by an Israeli journalist.

 

[save the frogs]

anti netanyahu protests in israel

 

 

[retarius]

The allegation that Israel knew and was warned about the October attacks was all over the news. I found it difficult to credit because it seemed un-Jewish to allow the attacks after being warned, and assumed it was fake news. Mr Ali, apparently believed the story and is repeating it, which is how successful propaganda works. 99.9% of people who read the news never even give it a quick sanity check if it supports our own particular belief system.....so Mr Ali is no worse than those who support Israel's propaganda of the necessity to kill thousands of women and children. I wish Mr Ali well and hope he wins the by-election.

Edited February 13 by retarius

[ezzra]

Throughout history, it didn't take much to blame the jews for all mankind problems, and now israel where mostly jewish people lives,

hardly an anti Israel protest or a march gathering where there isn't the star of david side by side with Nazi symbols,

Why? good question, as many of those who participate in such events knows very little about jews and Israel but they know

a LOT about hate and empty slogans, the sad part is that whatever the jewish people or Israel will do, there always

going to be millions still who will continue to hate and blame...

[TorquayFan]

flyingtiger - maybe so - in your case too. Do you have any thoughts on the subject?

NickCarter - an interesting theory - any evidence for that. In my case you might be reassured that I'm anti Yemen and China and some other Countries too.

NotE - thanks and I'll have a look at that.

Save the frogs - yes spot on. Hopefully Netanyahu's time will soon be up!

Retarius - good point but I don't think it's logical to excuse Mr Ali's idiocy because he is not the only one prone . . . . .

ezzra - yes anti-semitism does exist and it's deplorable. However, making anti-Israel comment can be valid and is NOT anti-semitic per se.

 

Thanks for replies . . .

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

flyingtiger - maybe so - in your case too. Do you have any thoughts on the subject?

NickCarter - an interesting theory - any evidence for that. In my case you might be reassured that I'm anti Yemen and China and some other Countries too.

NotE - thanks and I'll have a look at that.

Save the frogs - yes spot on. Hopefully Netanyahu's time will soon be up!

Retarius - good point but I don't think it's logical to excuse Mr Ali's idiocy because he is not the only one prone . . . . .

ezzra - yes anti-semitism does exist and it's deplorable. However, making anti-Israel comment can be valid and is NOT anti-semitic per se.

 

Thanks for replies . . .

 

So actually, you're not really all that interested in Azhar Ali, but want to make a general 'point' that's not much to do with his comments?

 

Also, wasn't aware we could open topics again on this sub-forum. Must be a new thing.

Edited February 13 by Morch

[ezzra]

13 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

flyingtiger - maybe so - in your case too. Do you have any thoughts on the subject?

NickCarter - an interesting theory - any evidence for that. In my case you might be reassured that I'm anti Yemen and China and some other Countries too.

NotE - thanks and I'll have a look at that.

Save the frogs - yes spot on. Hopefully Netanyahu's time will soon be up!

Retarius - good point but I don't think it's logical to excuse Mr Ali's idiocy because he is not the only one prone . . . . .

ezzra - yes anti-semitism does exist and it's deplorable. However, making anti-Israel comment can be valid and is NOT anti-semitic per se.

 

Thanks for replies . . .

Do criticise Israel by all means, but the knowledge that there are tens of millions muslims ( as well as non muslims) in

the world who would love nothing better than to see israel gone tomorrow morning, vanished and destroyed,

making Israel in that respect unequaled to any other country, race or entity in the world...

[TorquayFan]

Ezzra yes I get that.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

The allegation that Israel knew and was warned about the October attacks was all over the news. I found it difficult to credit because it seemed un-Jewish to allow the attacks after being warned, and assumed it was fake news. Mr Ali, apparently believed the story and is repeating it, which is how successful propaganda works. 99.9% of people who read the news never even give it a quick sanity check if it supports our own particular belief system.....so Mr Ali is no worse than those who support Israel's propaganda of the necessity to kill thousands of women and children. I wish Mr Ali well and hope he wins the by-election.

Who has benefitted ?

Who has destroyed over 75% of Gazan houses?

Who has killed tens of thousands of enemies?

 

It is a coincedence that the most advanced army in the region's defence system didn't work.

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Do criticise Israel by all means, but the knowledge that there are tens of millions muslims ( as well as non muslims) in

the world who would love nothing better than to see israel gone tomorrow morning, vanished and destroyed,

making Israel in that respect unequaled to any other country, race or entity in the world...

Why do you think these Muslims feel that way?

Are they antisemetic?

 

 

[Neeranam]

 

Antisemitism refers to prejudice, discrimination, or hostility directed against Jewish people as an ethnic, religious, or racial group.

Criticism of Israel can be disagreement with its government's policies, its treatment of Palestinians, its settlement expansion in the occupied territories, or its military actions. Many people, including Jews themselves, criticize certain Israeli policies without being motivated by antisemitism.

Some here have a persecution complex, a psychological pathology or irrationality regarding these topics, and should not be taken seriously. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

anti netanyahu protests in israel

 

 

Excellent news. I hope that man gets the boot, has his court case and serves time in jail.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

 

NickCarter - an interesting theory - any evidence for that. In my case you might be reassured that I'm anti Yemen and China and some other Countries too.

 

 

  Where are all those threads about Yemen and China and "some other Countries too" ? 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

anti netanyahu protests in israel

 

 

 

   Israel is a democracy , democracies allow protests against the Government .

Palestinians in Gaza protesting against Hamas are likely to be killed ...............by Hamas 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Who has benefitted ?

Who has destroyed over 75% of Gazan houses?

Who has killed tens of thousands of enemies?

 

It is a coincedence that the most advanced army in the region's defence system didn't work.

 

 

 

 

More conspiracy theory stuff.

 

[Morch]

42 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why do you think these Muslims feel that way?

Are they antisemetic?

 

 

 

Many of them are.

Maybe got to do with certain teachings of their religion.

Maybe got to do with what schools of thought are followed.

 

I don't think you're unaware of this.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

 

Antisemitism refers to prejudice, discrimination, or hostility directed against Jewish people as an ethnic, religious, or racial group.

Criticism of Israel can be disagreement with its government's policies, its treatment of Palestinians, its settlement expansion in the occupied territories, or its military actions. Many people, including Jews themselves, criticize certain Israeli policies without being motivated by antisemitism.

Some here have a persecution complex, a psychological pathology or irrationality regarding these topics, and should not be taken seriously. 

 

 

 

 

Some here keep copying stuff from the net and presenting it as their own words.

Same people seem to suffer from a delusion that they are mental health experts, or that they have much insight on things discussed.

Or maybe they are just trolling.

 

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent news. I hope that man gets the boot, has his court case and serves time in jail.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

It's 'news' only if you insist on not knowing stuff, ignoring events and so on.

These protests have been going on since shortly after the new Israeli coalition government was formed.

9 months or so, then a 'break' due to the war, now resuming.

Poll figures consistently grim for current government as well.

 

Don't let that deter you from making them wide brush comments about Israel, though.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

. I wish Mr Ali well and hope he wins the by-election.

 

   He has  been sacked by Labour , a long list of Labour members being sacked for anti Semitism  

 

The sacking of Azhar Ali as Labour's candidate in the Rochdale by-election is the biggest disaster for Sir Keir Starmer in his nearly four years as leader of the party.

There will now be an almighty inquest into how a candidate who had made such comments about Israel and Gaza was selected for such a high-profile by-election.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/this-is-sir-keir-starmers-biggest-crisis-as-labour-leader-and-there-may-be-worse-to-come-13070386

 

[Nick Carter icp]

53 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

Antisemitism refers to prejudice, discrimination, or hostility directed against Jewish people as an ethnic, religious, or racial group.

Criticism of Israel can be disagreement with its government's policies, its treatment of Palestinians, its settlement expansion in the occupied territories, or its military actions. Many people, including Jews themselves, criticize certain Israeli policies without being motivated by antisemitism.

Some here have a persecution complex, a psychological pathology or irrationality regarding these topics, and should not be taken seriously. 

 

 

   Although when you only seem to criticise Israel and criticise no other Country and only seem to support the Palestinians and no other group , your motives need to be questioned .

   Why such an agenda against Israel ?

[flyingtlger]

2 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

flyingtiger - maybe so - in your case too. Do you have any thoughts on the subject?

If you change the way you look at things,

The things you look at, change.....

[Neeranam]

23 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@Neeranam

 

Some here keep copying stuff from the net and presenting it as their own words.

Same people seem to suffer from a delusion that they are mental health experts, or that they have much insight on things discussed.

Or maybe they are just trolling.

 

I don't know why I reply to your baiting.

 

I copied nothing and you know it -  you could do a search easily.

[AlexRich]

I was also puzzled at how Israel could have let this happen? They have one of the most advanced intelligence networks in the world, but failed to know anything about the attack plans. They had also lightened their troop presence. It really beggars belief. 
 

On the other hand this event has done nothing for Netanyahu, who is stretching this out because he is going to lose power once it is over. Then he will be in legal trouble without the power of being PM. 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Who has benefitted ?

Who has destroyed over 75% of Gazan houses?

Who has killed tens of thousands of enemies?

 

It is a coincedence that the most advanced army in the region's defence system didn't work.

 

 

You must have lost your sense of shame, to write such manure. 

[Ben Zioner]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I was also puzzled at how Israel could have let this happen? They have one of the most advanced intelligence networks in the world, but failed to know anything about the attack plans. They had also lightened their troop presence. It really beggars belief. 

Munich (1938 not 1972, as some may get confused there).

Edited February 13 by Ben Zioner

[TorquayFan]

Neeranam - "Who has benefitted ?

Who has destroyed over 75% of Gazan houses?

Who has killed tens of thousands of enemies?

It is a coincidence that the most advanced army in the region's defence system didn't work."

 

IMO suggestions that Israel sacrificed 1,200 of it's own people are very unlikely to be true. Even the best Army can't protect 100% of the time.

[Rimmer]

This topic which started life about UK, Labour's by-election candidate, has gone so far off topic that the only solution now is to close it:

 

//CLOSED//