Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Nick Carter icp]

20 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

2 shock takeaways from this current conflict is that the much vaunted Mossad turned out to have feet of clay, and Israeli propaganda is so crude in many instances it is laughable. Previously I had always bought into the Munich, Eichmann Mossad had superpowers ability and could reach anywhere, anytime. Maybe the post-war generation of leaders forged in WW2 in various ways had it, but later generations have lost it. Not just Israel, to be fair.

 

   Post WW 2 , some Ex Nazis were located and either killed or bought back to Israel for a trial .

Israel/Mossad were successful in a few cases , but unsuccessful in other cases , like Mengele escaped justice .

   Point being that Mossad/Jews never did have any "superpower ability" , so Jews haven't lost their super power ability, because they never had them in the first place .

   Did you think that Superman was called Jewperman ?

[Jeff the Chef]

34 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Jeff, when you hold P.O.W, you can not make demands for their release .

When you make demands for their release, that is when they become hostages .

Even if they were P.O.W,s (which they were not) making demands for their release makes them hostages

 

A prisoner of war (POW) is a person who is held captive by a belligerent power during or immediately after an armed conflict. The earliest recorded usage of the phrase "prisoner of war" dates back to 1610.[a]

 

Belligerents hold prisoners of war in custody for a range of legitimate and illegitimate reasons, such as isolating them from the enemy combatants still in the field (releasing and repatriating them in an orderly manner after hostilities), demonstrating military victory, using civilians to deter attacks on active military targets, punishing them, prosecuting them for war crimes, exploiting them for their labour, recruiting or even conscripting them as their own combatants, collecting military and political intelligence from them, or indoctrinating them in new political or religious beliefs.[1]

 

Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, prisoners of war are automatically granted the enhanced status of protected persons, alongside certain civilians and enemy combatants who are hors de combat (i.e., out of the fight).[2]

[Jeff the Chef]

42 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Jeff, when you hold P.O.W, you can not make demands for their release .

When you make demands for their release, that is when they become hostages .

Even if they were P.O.W,s (which they were not) making demands for their release makes them hostages

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

41 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Jeff, when you hold P.O.W, you can not make demands for their release .

When you make demands for their release, that is when they become hostages .

Even if they were P.O.W,s (which they were not) making demands for their release makes them hostages

 

 

[Neeranam]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:02 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Let's never forget that israel came to be when Irgun and Stern gang terrorism drove the British out of Palestine, and a terrorist ( Begin ) even  became PM.

Born of terrorism, and IMO still uses it against Palestinians.

Wow, where's there gratitude for us giving them Palestinian land in the first place?

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

A prisoner of war (POW) is a person who is held captive by a belligerent power during or immediately after an armed conflict. The earliest recorded usage of the phrase "prisoner of war" dates back to 1610.[a]

 

Belligerents hold prisoners of war in custody for a range of legitimate and illegitimate reasons, such as isolating them from the enemy combatants still in the field (releasing and repatriating them in an orderly manner after hostilities), demonstrating military victory, using civilians to deter attacks on active military targets, punishing them, prosecuting them for war crimes, exploiting them for their labour, recruiting or even conscripting them as their own combatants, collecting military and political intelligence from them, or indoctrinating them in new political or religious beliefs.[1]

 

Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, prisoners of war are automatically granted the enhanced status of protected persons, alongside certain civilians and enemy combatants who are hors de combat (i.e., out of the fight).[2]

Stop this nonsense, they are hostages that are also probably being sexually abused by terrorists. The ICJ, Security Council and just about every other body in the world involved with this did not say free the Prisoners of War.

 

What a sad attempt at minimizing such a horrific war crime being carried out by Hamas

[Jeff the Chef]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Stop this nonsense, they are hostages that are also probably being sexually abused by terrorists. The ICJ, Security Council and just about every other body in the world involved with this did not say free the Prisoners of War.

 

What a sad attempt at minimizing such a horrific war crime being carried out by Hamas

 

What nonsense?

 

Is Israel at war with Hamas?

 

This is about 5 Israeli combatants as declared in this post: https://themedialine.org/top-stories/women-held-captive-in-gaza-face-uncertain-fate/

 

Any proof of this comment? "they are hostages that are also probably being sexually abused by terrorists."

 

The ICJ, Security Council and just about every other body in the world involved with this did not say free the Prisoners of War.

 

True, there was no comment about POW's only Hostages.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

 

What nonsense?

 

Is Israel at war with Hamas?

 

This is about 5 Israeli combatants as declared in this post: https://themedialine.org/top-stories/women-held-captive-in-gaza-face-uncertain-fate/

 

Any proof of this comment? "they are hostages that are also probably being sexually abused by terrorists."

 

The ICJ, Security Council and just about every other body in the world involved with this did not say free the Prisoners of War.

 

True, there was no comment about POW's only Hostages.

 

What nonsense?

 

You know exactly what nonsense claiming they are POW's, link to a credible report that agrees with you. Nobody does. Even if Hamas did it would then by obliged to give them all the rights via the Geneva Convention which they are certainly not getting now. 

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

On 3/30/2024 at 9:50 AM, Bkk Brian said:

A write up on each of the girls still held by the terrorists and no the world has not forgotten.

 

These Are the 14 Women Remaining in Captivity in Gaza, Facing an Uncertain Fate

“I asked her not to cry so they wouldn’t hear her – but after 3 and a half hours [of hiding], we heard Arabic on the other end of the line. Eden’s last words in the call were ‘They caught me.’”

https://themedialine.org/top-stories/women-held-captive-in-gaza-face-uncertain-fate/

 

https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1773697839954034915

 

 

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What nonsense?

 

You know exactly what nonsense claiming they are POW's, link to a credible report that agrees with you. Nobody does. Even if Hamas did it would then by obliged to give them all the rights via the Geneva Convention which they are certainly not getting now. 

 

 

 

You posted the link, did you not?

Can you prove that Hamas are not giving these 5 combatants their rights under the Geneva Convention?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

You posted the link, did you not?

Can you prove that Hamas are not giving these 5 combatants their rights under the Geneva Convention?

Yes the link I posted does not say they are POW's.

 

More nonsense its not up to me to prove what Hamas is providing its up to you to prove your sick claim they are POW's. 

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

[Jeff the Chef]

On 3/30/2024 at 12:57 PM, Jeff the Chef said:

 

These 5 must be classed as P.O.W.'s, as they were in the I.D.F.

 

Liri Albag was kidnapped from the Nahal Oz IDF base on the Gaza border, where she served as a surveillance soldier. She completed basic training and reported to the base on Thursday, October 5, just two days before her abduction.

 

Karina Ariev, a surveillance soldier, was abducted from the Nahal Oz IDF Base.

 

Agam, also known as “Gagi,” was kidnapped from the Nahal Oz IDF Base, where she served as a communications lookout. It was her first weekend on the base.

 

Serving as an observation soldier at the IDF 414th Combat Intelligence Collection Unit, Gilboa was abducted from the Nahal Oz Base.

 

Naama was kidnapped on Saturday, October 7 from the Nahal Oz IDF Base. She had just finished her training to be a part of the border observation unit and arrived on base on Thursday, October 5.

 

https://themedialine.org/top-stories/women-held-captive-in-gaza-face-uncertain-fate/

 

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes the link I posted does not say they are POW's.

 

More nonsense its not up to me to prove what Hamas is providing its up to you to prove your sick claim they are POW's. 

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

 

They were all captured at the Nahal Oz IDF Base as stated from information in your link.

 

You were the one who stated and I quote "Stop this nonsense, they are hostages that are also probably being sexually abused by terrorists" I only asked for some proof of that statement, have you got any?

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

They were all captured at the Nahal Oz IDF Base as stated from information in your link.

 

You were the one who stated and I quote "Stop this nonsense, they are hostages that are also probably being sexually abused by terrorists" I only asked for some proof of that statement, have you got any?

 

 

Credible links Jeff that they are POW's, not your pathetic attempts at minimizing what Hamas is doing and what they are. hostages held in horrific tunnels in Gaza probably getting sexually abused. Oh and there was no war when they were kidnapped, that came the next day when Israel declared it.

 

I always provide links to my claims, unlike you.

 

According to the 24-page report, there is "clear and convincing" information suggesting that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and other forms of abuse, was committed against hostages held in captivity by Hamas in Gaza. Moreover, there are "reasonable grounds" to believe that such violence is ongoing against those still held captive.

 

 

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

They were all captured at the Nahal Oz IDF Base as stated from information in your link.

 

You were the one who stated and I quote "Stop this nonsense, they are hostages that are also probably being sexually abused by terrorists" I only asked for some proof of that statement, have you got any?

 

 

Based on the information it gathered, the mission team found clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment has been committed against hostages," the U.N. said in a report, adding that it "has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing against those still held in captivity.”

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

You posted the link, did you not?

Can you prove that Hamas are not giving these 5 combatants their rights under the Geneva Convention?

 

  P.O W rules 

 

 

 "POWs must be able to maintain relations with the outside world, especially with their families and friends."

 

 

   The Israeli hostages haven't been able to do that 

[Bkk Brian]

Shifa ongoing, more terrorists leaders getting eliminated 

 

https://twitter.com/YaariCohen/status/1774083714072363321

 

[Danny Australia]

 

Israel admits killing 2 Palestinians and then burying them with a bulldozer after shocking video surfaces | CNN

 

Israel acknowledges troops killed 2 Palestinians after video captures shooting on a Gaza beach | AP News

 

CNN and AP reports on IDF official statement regarding the killing of 2 Palestinians then burying them with a bulldozer.

[Jeff the Chef]

On 3/30/2024 at 12:57 PM, Jeff the Chef said:

 

These 5 must be classed as P.O.W.'s, as they were in the I.D.F.

 

Liri Albag was kidnapped from the Nahal Oz IDF base on the Gaza border, where she served as a surveillance soldier. She completed basic training and reported to the base on Thursday, October 5, just two days before her abduction.

 

Karina Ariev, a surveillance soldier, was abducted from the Nahal Oz IDF Base.

 

Agam, also known as “Gagi,” was kidnapped from the Nahal Oz IDF Base, where she served as a communications lookout. It was her first weekend on the base.

 

Serving as an observation soldier at the IDF 414th Combat Intelligence Collection Unit, Gilboa was abducted from the Nahal Oz Base.

 

Naama was kidnapped on Saturday, October 7 from the Nahal Oz IDF Base. She had just finished her training to be a part of the border observation unit and arrived on base on Thursday, October 5.

 

https://themedialine.org/top-stories/women-held-captive-in-gaza-face-uncertain-fate/

 

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  P.O W rules 

 

 

 "POWs must be able to maintain relations with the outside world, especially with their families and friends."

 

 

   The Israeli hostages haven't been able to do that 

 

As can be seen from my original post, I said the 5 Ladies serving in the IDF must be classed as POW's but as Brian said that war wasn't declared till the following day, so that might be a moot point.

We will have to see how this plays out, they would have more rights as POW's than as civilian hostages with only the rights given them by there captures.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

As can be seen from my original post, I said the 5 Ladies serving in the IDF must be classed as POW's but as Brian said that war wasn't declared till the following day, so that might be a moot point.

We will have to see how this plays out, they would have more rights as POW's than as civilian hostages with only the rights given them by there captures.

 

   The meaning if the word *Hostage*

 

someone who is taken as a prisoner by an enemy in order to force the other people involved to do what the enemy wants: 

 

   The Israelis taken on Oct 7 th are all hostages .

There were taken by Hamas to force Israel to do what Hamas wants .

No need for any more discussion on the subject .

They are hostages 

[Nick Carter icp]

47 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

Israel admits killing 2 Palestinians and then burying them with a bulldozer after shocking video surfaces | CNN

 

Israel acknowledges troops killed 2 Palestinians after video captures shooting on a Gaza beach | AP News

 

CNN and AP reports on IDF official statement regarding the killing of 2 Palestinians then burying them with a bulldozer.

 

   They were suspected of being suicide bombers and they failed to stop when ordered to whilst walking towards Israeli soldiers . 

   They were shot dead after being told numerous times to stop walking . Buried in the sand to stop any explosions happening from bombs on their person 

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

As can be seen from my original post, I said the 5 Ladies serving in the IDF must be classed as POW's but as Brian said that war wasn't declared till the following day, so that might be a moot point.

We will have to see how this plays out, they would have more rights as POW's than as civilian hostages with only the rights given them by there captures.

Considering your the only person making this claim its not only a moot point, its a pie in the sky fantasy point made only to  minimize the Hamas atrocities that continue being inflicted on them

[scottiejohn]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The meaning if the word *Hostage*

 

someone who is taken as a prisoner by an enemy in order to force the other people involved to do what the enemy wants: 

 

   The Israelis taken on Oct 7 th are all hostages .

There were taken by Hamas to force Israel to do what Hamas wants .

No need for any more discussion on the subject .

They are hostages 

Where do you get that definition of "Hostage" from?

The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as;

hostage 
n    noun a person seized or held as security for the fulfilment of a condition. 
 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, scottiejohn said:

Where do you get that definition of "Hostage" from?

The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as;

hostage 
n    noun a person seized or held as security for the fulfilment of a condition. 
 

 

   Yes, both definitions pretty much say the same thing, just different words used 

[scottiejohn]

34 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Yes, both definitions pretty much say the same thing, just different words used 

NO!

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

NO!

 

 

 

   They do say the say thing, they just use different words and put in a different order , but both definitions give the same meaning .

   (I am I really trying to convince someone that two different definitions of the same word in two different dictionaries give the same meaning to that word) Of course they would !!!!!!!!!

[Nick Carter icp]

47 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Where do you get that definition of "Hostage" from?

The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as;

hostage 
n    noun a person seized or held as security for the fulfilment of a condition. 
 

 

  Yes, the Israelis are being held as security for the fulfilment of conditions set by Hamas = Hostages

[Nick Carter icp]

 

    Nazi Swastikas now being displayed  on pro Palestinian marches in London 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/police-actively-looking-for-individuals-over-antisemitic-signs-at-pro-palestinian-march-13005665

 

[Bkk Brian]

Time for WHO, the UN and other bodies to denounce Hamas and blame them for the ongoing use of Hospitals as command centers, places of sanctuary and places to prepare attacks. The silence is deafening but more so, making them complicit in not denouncing them and only attacking Israel and contributing to the collapse of health systems.

 

“The presence of the command room and the terrorists who operated in the hospital yard are further proof of the systematic use of humanitarian and medical infrastructure by the terror organizations in the Gaza Strip as a cover for terrorist activities,” the IDF adds in a statement.

 

Another command center struck yesterday in another hospital.

 

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1774415269840007334

 

Israel Gaza: Journalists injured in al-Aqsa hospital air strike

Seven journalists, including a freelancer working for the BBC, have been injured in an Israeli air strike in the courtyard of a hospital in Gaza. Four members of the Islamic Jihad (IJ) militant group were killed in the attack, the BBC understands. The Israeli military said it struck an IJ command centre in the grounds of the al-Aqsa Hospital in Deir al-Balah, Hamas and medical staff deny Israeli accusations that militants use hospitals as bases. Islamic Jihad, an ally of Hamas, has not commented.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68704280

 

IDF says it hit Islamic Jihad command center in Gaza hospital courtyard; medical center undamaged

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    Nazi Swastikas now being displayed  on pro Palestinian marches in London 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/police-actively-looking-for-individuals-over-antisemitic-signs-at-pro-palestinian-march-13005665

 

"I fully support Hamas"

 

One of the disgusting quotes from a protestor on video. Hope he got arrested.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1323706-rival-gaza-protests-in-london-seethed-with-mutual-animosity-and-angry-divides

 

[Bkk Brian]

The numbers spewed out by Hamas on the deaths and casualty figures are becoming a complete joke, that again the UN and other bodies need to address. Its no longer a case of pervious figures being deemed reliable when the reality now is that they are anything but credible. 45% of deaths now come from sources they will not reveal. The latest of numerous reports on this now.

 

Gaza Fatality Data Has Become Completely Unreliable

Given the discrepancies in official Palestinian counts and their growing reliance on questionable data from media reports, the credibility gaps revealed by a previous Washington Institute study have become yawning chasms. 

Heated debates over the Palestinian death toll in the Hamas-Israel war tend to focus on the fact that widely cited fatality numbers make no distinction between combatants and noncombatants. While this is true, it misses a more fundamental problem—the numbers themselves have lost any claim to validity.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/gaza-fatality-data-has-become-completely-unreliable

 

The numbers of dead in Gaza don’t add up – and there is no easy explanation

While in previous rounds of fighting, the numbers were based on official hospital records, this time an increasingly large percentage of reported deaths are coming, not from doctors, but from what the Health Ministry refers to as “reliable media sources”, as well as reports submitted by Gazan citizens via a Google Form.

At the time of writing, the authorities say there have been a total of 32,414 deaths. About 54 per cent of those are from hospital records, with 45 per cent coming from other sources.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/unrwa-staff-death-toll-gaza-israel-hamas-war-data/

https://archive.ph/nssyH

 

[Jeff the Chef]

13 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Considering your the only person making this claim its not only a moot point, its a pie in the sky fantasy point made only to  minimize the Hamas atrocities that continue being inflicted on them

 

Yes of course it is, made you think though didn't it and all the pro-Israel posts on here are to minimize the worldwide condemnation of Israel atrocities in Gaza and the occupied territories, by fair means or foul, tell us something we don't know.