Debit card scam

[Lacessit]

I am going back to Australia for a short while. I booked a budget car for a couple of weeks. The rental company wanted a $100 deposit, which I paid with an Australian debit card over the phone.

The day after the transaction, there were three fraudulent transactions on my account, all originating from Uber Eats, within a five minute time frame. About $250 all up, in AUD. Uber is known as Grab in Thailand.

I called my bank in Australia, and cancelled the debit card. The bank will have the fraudulent debits reversed. I imagine it will be asking Uber Eats some tough questions.

 

I have never used the Australian debit card in Thailand. It has also never been outside my condo apartment. The car rental company is the only transaction it has had in the six months since I returned from Australia.

 

I called the car rental company. I explained I considered there had been a breach of  cyber security, and I wanted to cancel the booking, and have my deposit returned, as I did not think their systems were secure.

 

The manager refused to return my deposit, even though I would not be picking up any vehicle for a couple of weeks yet. He claimed breaches of his firm's security were impossible.

 

In hindsight, someone who is either writing down, repeating, or having on speaker the details of a telephone card transaction, would be wide open to having the details recorded with photo or audio, by any customer or another employee.

 

Constructive suggestions on how to achieve a refund welcomed. To me, the manager is acting in bad faith.

 

 

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Constructive suggestions on how to achieve a refund welcomed. To me, the manager is acting in bad faith.

 

I think you'll have better luck trying to get your refund through your Aus bank.  That's where I'd start.  Be honest.  Explain what happened and why you want to reverse the charges.

 

Then post back and let us know...

 

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am going back to Australia for a short while. I booked a budget car for a couple of weeks. The rental company wanted a $100 deposit, which I paid with an Australian debit card over the phone.

The day after the transaction, there were three fraudulent transactions on my account, all originating from Uber Eats, within a five minute time frame. About $250 all up, in AUD. Uber is known as Grab in Thailand.

I called my bank in Australia, and cancelled the debit card. The bank will have the fraudulent debits reversed. I imagine it will be asking Uber Eats some tough questions.

 

I have never used the Australian debit card in Thailand. It has also never been outside my condo apartment. The car rental company is the only transaction it has had in the six months since I returned from Australia.

 

I called the car rental company. I explained I considered there had been a breach of  cyber security, and I wanted to cancel the booking, and have my deposit returned, as I did not think their systems were secure.

 

The manager refused to return my deposit, even though I would not be picking up any vehicle for a couple of weeks yet. He claimed breaches of his firm's security were impossible.

 

In hindsight, someone who is either writing down, repeating, or having on speaker the details of a telephone card transaction, would be wide open to having the details recorded with photo or audio, by any customer or another employee.

 

Constructive suggestions on how to achieve a refund welcomed. To me, the manager is acting in bad faith.

 

 

 

I've had to cancel credit cards for same reason, one just recently. No idea who or how, charges made in a different country. But, if you already paid the $100. deposit and you've canceled the debit card I don't see the problem. 

 

I would recommend using a credit card for online transactions, least that's my rule. I only use foreign debit for ATM cash.

[Dolf]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am going back to Australia for a short while. I booked a budget car for a couple of weeks. The rental company wanted a $100 deposit, which I paid with an Australian debit card over the phone.

The day after the transaction, there were three fraudulent transactions on my account, all originating from Uber Eats, within a five minute time frame. About $250 all up, in AUD. Uber is known as Grab in Thailand.

I called my bank in Australia, and cancelled the debit card. The bank will have the fraudulent debits reversed. I imagine it will be asking Uber Eats some tough questions.

 

I have never used the Australian debit card in Thailand. It has also never been outside my condo apartment. The car rental company is the only transaction it has had in the six months since I returned from Australia.

 

I called the car rental company. I explained I considered there had been a breach of  cyber security, and I wanted to cancel the booking, and have my deposit returned, as I did not think their systems were secure.

 

The manager refused to return my deposit, even though I would not be picking up any vehicle for a couple of weeks yet. He claimed breaches of his firm's security were impossible.

 

In hindsight, someone who is either writing down, repeating, or having on speaker the details of a telephone card transaction, would be wide open to having the details recorded with photo or audio, by any customer or another employee.

 

Constructive suggestions on how to achieve a refund welcomed. To me, the manager is acting in bad faith.

 

 

 

You should be more tough with manager.

[JBChiangRai]

I would go ahead with your booking but photograph and document every transaction.

[steven100]

48 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I would recommend using a credit card for online transactions, least that's my rule. I only use foreign debit for ATM cash.

slightly OT ... when getting ATM cash using your foreign debit card do you pay a conversion fee ?  reason I ask is I made a 10k baht withdrawal, and was charged the usual 220 baht here, but also $13 conversion fee by my bank ( or building society actually )  so the 10k cost 520 baht ....

[Lacessit]

53 minutes ago, Dolf said:

You should be more tough with manager.

He has $100 of my money, and a choice.

It will cost him nothing to return my money.

OTOH, I can cost him a lot of time and money, and I have plenty of time. I'm retired, he is not.

[Lacessit]

16 minutes ago, steven100 said:

slightly OT ... when getting ATM cash using your foreign debit card do you pay a conversion fee ?  reason I ask is I made a 10k baht withdrawal, and was charged the usual 220 baht here, but also $13 conversion fee by my bank ( or building society actually )  so the 10k cost 520 baht ....

Yes you do. My second debit card was used in a small transaction today to ensure the PIN was working. 220 baht here, $5 in Australia. Conversion 0.5 baht below cross-rate.

I wanted to make sure I had a functioning card when I landed in Oz.

Edited March 7 by Lacessit

[steven100]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Yes you do. My second debit card was used in a small transaction today to ensure the PIN was working. 220 baht here, $5 in Australia.

thanks, so it's a percentage of the amount obviously ....   so I was charged 3%  in Australia + the 220 baht here ...

That's expensive yeah ' 

[Lacessit]

31 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I would go ahead with your booking but photograph and document every transaction.

Why would I want to go back to a company who is not only withholding my booking deposit in bad faith, but also might put me at risk of having a second cyber attack on my account?

It might not be obvious to you, but IMO their transaction security sucks.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I've had to cancel credit cards for same reason, one just recently. No idea who or how, charges made in a different country. But, if you already paid the $100. deposit and you've canceled the debit card I don't see the problem. 

 

I would recommend using a credit card for online transactions, least that's my rule. I only use foreign debit for ATM cash.

My problem is the manager has $100 of my money, for which I have had no service and a truckload of inconvenience and aggravation.

[EVENKEEL]

9 hours ago, steven100 said:

slightly OT ... when getting ATM cash using your foreign debit card do you pay a conversion fee ?  reason I ask is I made a 10k baht withdrawal, and was charged the usual 220 baht here, but also $13 conversion fee by my bank ( or building society actually )  so the 10k cost 520 baht ....

A bit expensive, I have a credit union which charges a few dollars per withdrawal in LOS. I hardly ever use it here, but when you need the money you do what you have to do. Maybe change banks next time home.

[1sickpuppy]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am going back to Australia for a short while. I booked a budget car for a couple of weeks. The rental company wanted a $100 deposit, which I paid with an Australian debit card over the phone.

The day after the transaction, there were three fraudulent transactions on my account, all originating from Uber Eats, within a five minute time frame. About $250 all up, in AUD. Uber is known as Grab in Thailand.

I called my bank in Australia, and cancelled the debit card. The bank will have the fraudulent debits reversed. I imagine it will be asking Uber Eats some tough questions.

 

I have never used the Australian debit card in Thailand. It has also never been outside my condo apartment. The car rental company is the only transaction it has had in the six months since I returned from Australia.

 

I called the car rental company. I explained I considered there had been a breach of  cyber security, and I wanted to cancel the booking, and have my deposit returned, as I did not think their systems were secure.

 

The manager refused to return my deposit, even though I would not be picking up any vehicle for a couple of weeks yet. He claimed breaches of his firm's security were impossible.

 

In hindsight, someone who is either writing down, repeating, or having on speaker the details of a telephone card transaction, would be wide open to having the details recorded with photo or audio, by any customer or another employee.

 

Constructive suggestions on how to achieve a refund welcomed. To me, the manager is acting in bad faith.

 

 

 

you are not the bright to do it in first place go to atm for cash, happens all over the world and idiots want to close banks so they can steal more

[Dolf]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Why would I want to go back to a company who is not only withholding my booking deposit in bad faith, but also might put me at risk of having a second cyber attack on my account?

It might not be obvious to you, but IMO their transaction security sucks.

How do you know it is cyber? The person on phone might have used it.

[JBChiangRai]

You have to look at this from the car rental company’s view too.

 

All he knows is you booked a car with deposit and changed your mind.

 

The fraudulent use of your card could have originated anywhere, and whilst there is a temporal correlation, it’s not conclusive evidence of it being from the car rental company.

 

Are the Uber Eats transactions in the same city as the car rental company? Do you still need a rental car?

 

I would still rent from there having put the manager on notice about the frauds and if I were the manager, I wouldn’t give you a refund either.

 

Any (highly unlikely) future fraud would be dealt with by your bank in a timely fashion.

[Dolf]

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You have to look at this from the car rental company’s view too.

 

All he knows is you booked a car with deposit and changed your mind.

 

The fraudulent use of your card could have originated anywhere, and whilst there is a temporal correlation, it’s not conclusive evidence of it being from the car rental company.

 

Are the Uber Eats transactions in the same city as the car rental company? Do you still need a rental car?

 

I would still rent from there having put the manager on notice about the frauds and if I were the manager, I wouldn’t give you a refund either.

 

Any (highly unlikely) future fraud would be dealt with by your bank in a timely fashion.

I'd be calling again and tell the manager the person on phone is likely responsible. I would then tell the manager I'm writing bad reviews of your firm and contacting the bank because your firm is dodgy.

 

 

[Bday Prang]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

He has $100 of my money, and a choice.

It will cost him nothing to return my money.

OTOH, I can cost him a lot of time and money, and I have plenty of time. I'm retired, he is not.

Just be careful you don't fall foul of any defamation laws.     I have had similar issues in the UK after paying for Visas using the E- visa system   twice now within 24  hours of paying for visas I had money taken from my account, in both instances a direct debit had been set up linked to a company in Germany of all places!  

  The bank refunded the money  but when I asked the bank if it was possible for me to stop any future direct debits being set up without my prior approval I was fold it was not possible to do so.   Apparently anybody or any company can set up a direct debit if they have the required details and the only recourse is to rely on the direct debit guarantee scheme in which banks "promise" to refund fraudulent debits.  I personally do not find this very reassuring, having to rely on a banks "honesty" does not inspire confidence

[gargamon]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

In hindsight, someone who is either writing down, repeating, or having on speaker the details of a telephone card transaction, would be wide open to having the details recorded with photo or audio, by any customer or another employee.

You gave them your card info by voice and not electronically? If you did you only have yourself to blame. 

[Grumpy one]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am going back to Australia for a short while. I booked a budget car for a couple of weeks. The rental company wanted a $100 deposit, which I paid with an Australian debit card over the phone.

The day after the transaction, there were three fraudulent transactions on my account, all originating from Uber Eats, within a five minute time frame. About $250 all up, in AUD. Uber is known as Grab in Thailand.

I called my bank in Australia, and cancelled the debit card. The bank will have the fraudulent debits reversed. I imagine it will be asking Uber Eats some tough questions.

 

I have never used the Australian debit card in Thailand. It has also never been outside my condo apartment. The car rental company is the only transaction it has had in the six months since I returned from Australia.

 

I called the car rental company. I explained I considered there had been a breach of  cyber security, and I wanted to cancel the booking, and have my deposit returned, as I did not think their systems were secure.

 

The manager refused to return my deposit, even though I would not be picking up any vehicle for a couple of weeks yet. He claimed breaches of his firm's security were impossible.

 

In hindsight, someone who is either writing down, repeating, or having on speaker the details of a telephone card transaction, would be wide open to having the details recorded with photo or audio, by any customer or another employee.

 

Constructive suggestions on how to achieve a refund welcomed. To me, the manager is acting in bad faith.

 

 

 

Take the car, add a kilo of sugar to the fuel tank just prior to returning it  

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, Grumpy one said:

Take the car, add a kilo of sugar to the fuel tank just prior to returning it  

As soon as a mechanic strips down the engine, the company will know what caused the engine failure, and who did it.

Stupid post.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

Just be careful you don't fall foul of any defamation laws.     I have had similar issues in the UK after paying for Visas using the E- visa system   twice now within 24  hours of paying for visas I had money taken from my account, in both instances a direct debit had been set up linked to a company in Germany of all places!  

  The bank refunded the money  but when I asked the bank if it was possible for me to stop any future direct debits being set up without my prior approval I was fold it was not possible to do so.   Apparently anybody or any company can set up a direct debit if they have the required details and the only recourse is to rely on the direct debit guarantee scheme in which banks "promise" to refund fraudulent debits.  I personally do not find this very reassuring, having to rely on a banks "honesty" does not inspire confidence

I only have a monthly direct debit with my health fund in Australia. I was asked recently by my bank if I wanted to cancel it, as I pay a yearly premium.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Dolf said:

I'd be calling again and tell the manager the person on phone is likely responsible. I would then tell the manager I'm writing bad reviews of your firm and contacting the bank because your firm is dodgy.

 

 

I am leaving that until I have more information from my bank.

 

Has anyone ever nicknamed you No-Toes?

[Surasak]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

You have to look at this from the car rental company’s view too.

 

All he knows is you booked a car with deposit and changed your mind.

 

The fraudulent use of your card could have originated anywhere, and whilst there is a temporal correlation, it’s not conclusive evidence of it being from the car rental company.

 

Are the Uber Eats transactions in the same city as the car rental company? Do you still need a rental car?

 

I would still rent from there having put the manager on notice about the frauds and if I were the manager, I wouldn’t give you a refund either.

 

Any (highly unlikely) future fraud would be dealt with by your bank in a timely fashion.

Why does the fraudulent transaction have to be in the same city? About 18 months ago I bought something via Lazada using my debit card. 27000B was taken from my account the same day by Deliveroo in the UK, 6000 miles away. I did get my money returned by the Thai bank but it took a while.

[Bday Prang]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I only have a monthly direct debit with my health fund in Australia. I was asked recently by my bank if I wanted to cancel it, as I pay a yearly premium.

Apparently its perfectly possible to cancel them.  Just not possible to prevent them getting set up in the first place. In my case  on both occasions the money was taken before the direct debits were listed in the account details, although to be honest it was not a detail that I regularly checked 

[bg53]

12 hours ago, Lacessit said:

My problem is the manager has $100 of my money.

 

First, call your bank hotline and tell your story. Request a chargeback.

Second, ask your bank for a replacement card.

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

You have to look at this from the car rental company’s view too.

 

All he knows is you booked a car with deposit and changed your mind.

 

The fraudulent use of your card could have originated anywhere, and whilst there is a temporal correlation, it’s not conclusive evidence of it being from the car rental company.

 

Are the Uber Eats transactions in the same city as the car rental company? Do you still need a rental car?

 

I would still rent from there having put the manager on notice about the frauds and if I were the manager, I wouldn’t give you a refund either.

 

Any (highly unlikely) future fraud would be dealt with by your bank in a timely fashion.

IMO it would be beyond stupid to rent from a company which has already compromised my card details once, and displayed the kind of business ethics that it has.

 

The manager was put on notice about the frauds, and the fact his company was the only transaction with that card for 6 months. In writing, I have had no response.

 

A reputable company would be bending over backwards to ensure my complaint and refund request was addressed.

 

As it happens, I have found another company which does long term rentals at a much lower tariff. I will deal with them on a walk-in basis.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The day after the transaction, there were three fraudulent transactions on my account, all originating from Uber Eats, within a five minute time frame. About $250 all up, in AUD.

I very seldom use my credit card physically but a couple of years ago in Sheffield I bought something and used the card rather than walking to the ATM. Within an hour a couple transactions appeared on the card for computer games, something the shop I was in also sold. The guy who served me looked like a student so I think fairly obvious who was responsible.

I phoned the bank and they quizzed me on who could have used the card, they seemed to accept what had happened and refunded the money immediately. Also cancelled the card and issued a new one.

Unfortunately debit cards do not have the same protection as credit cards so not so easy. Good Luck.

[JBChiangRai]

13 minutes ago, Surasak said:

Why does the fraudulent transaction have to be in the same city? About 18 months ago I bought something via Lazada using my debit card. 27000B was taken from my account the same day by Deliveroo in the UK, 6000 miles away. I did get my money returned by the Thai bank but it took a while.

I didn’t say it was, I asked if there was geographical correlation along with the temporal correlation. 

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, Surasak said:

Why does the fraudulent transaction have to be in the same city? About 18 months ago I bought something via Lazada using my debit card. 27000B was taken from my account the same day by Deliveroo in the UK, 6000 miles away. I did get my money returned by the Thai bank but it took a while.

It doesn't, but on balance of probabilities I would say the fraudulent Uber Eats orders will eventually be narrowed down to the Melbourne area.

I've never had a problem with Lazada orders.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, bg53 said:

First, call your bank hotline and tell your story. Request a chargeback.
 

I don't know about Australia but in the UK credit cards come under the Consumer Protection Act and a chargeback can be applied but debit cards are different.

Being effectively a cash transaction different rules are in place and you are out on your own a lot more.