Review of the Hotel Act. Airbnb encouraging feedback to the review board.

[ChipButty]

2 minutes ago, Henryford said:

 

To whom do you report it? Who enforces this illegality? Would he have to employ a solicitor?

It is possible most are not registered for the TM-30 

[ChipButty]

19 hours ago, impulse said:

What I meant is whether the license costs more for a 100 room hotel than it does for a 10 room hotel.  For example, if you had a 50 room hotel and it costs 50,000 baht a year to keep it registered, that would be 1000 baht per room.  Or is it a flat fee regardless of how big it is?

 

This is all I can find no more details

1. Hotel license type 1 10,000 baht each
2. Hotel license type 2 20,000 baht each
3. Hotel license type 3 30,000 baht each
4. Hotel license type 4 40,000 baht each
5. Hotel business operating fee: 40 baht per year per room

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, AverageAussie said:

Just for a bit of clarity, under the current act there is nothing illegal about listing accommodation on Airbnb - provided:

• the building/ room has a hotel licence
• the term of the lease is at least 30 days if there is no licence.

A lot of guests houses etc also list on that platform.

That is not the whole story, a host with less rooms than the licence requirement can rent quite legally for less than 30 days.

 

The whole controversy lies with condos. The court ruled that someone with a single condo unit required a licence to rent on the STR basis as in their opinion the total number of rooms in the complex should be taken into account.

The outcome has been that owners of 1 or 2 units have been making false declarations to Airbnb claiming that are in compliance with all local laws and regulations.

This is the problem that requires addressing before any changes to the law.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, impulse said:

And mechanically, how does an AirBNB property pay hotel taxes?  Does AirBNB hold out and remit the hotel taxes, or is the property owner responsible for reporting the income and remitting the taxes?  Not to mention any income taxes in addition to the hotel tax.  Then I wonder if AirBNB is required to report (to the Revenue Department) any amount they pay to the property owner, and under what tax ID if any?

 

I'm mostly wondering if AirBNB'ers are competing on a level playing field. 

Airbnb is nothing more than a property listing. if you want to make a booking you pay Airbnb and they pay the property owner less their fees. It is up to the owner to comply with all local laws and regulations.

I have used Airbnb for many years including places like China, Thailand & Vietnam, the latter being the only problem I have ever had.

I  also use Booking.com and many of their listings are on a similar basis to Airbnb, I had one in Belfast, so don't understand what you mean by level playing field. I think Agoda are also dipping the toe in the same pond.

People should bear in mind that self contained acommodation and hotel rooms are hardly the same.

[mokwit]

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That is not the whole story, a host with less rooms than the licence requirement can rent quite legally for less than 30 days.

 

The whole controversy lies with condos. The court ruled that someone with a single condo unit required a licence to rent on the STR basis as in their opinion the total number of rooms in the complex should be taken into account.

The outcome has been that owners of 1 or 2 units have been making false declarations to Airbnb claiming that are in compliance with all local laws and regulations.

This is the problem that requires addressing before any changes to the law.

Some lawyers are tellimg clients that if they personally own/let 4 units or less in a condo they are in compliance with the law. That is not what the exemption for guesthouses with 4 rooms or less means and not how the authorities interpret the law (when they do).

[ChipButty]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Airbnb is nothing more than a property listing. if you want to make a booking you pay Airbnb and they pay the property owner less their fees. It is up to the owner to comply with all local laws and regulations.

I have used Airbnb for many years including places like China, Thailand & Vietnam, the latter being the only problem I have ever had.

I  also use Booking.com and many of their listings are on a similar basis to Airbnb, I had one in Belfast, so don't understand what you mean by level playing field. I think Agoda are also dipping the toe in the same pond.

People should bear in mind that self contained acommodation and hotel rooms are hardly the same.

Agoda started before covid, also the likes of Trip.com are listing villas and condo's 

[alex8912]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

The short term rental market in Thailand is huge, It's not just Airbnb, you have Booking.com, Agoda, VRBO, Trip advisor and many more. 

One big problem with the STR properties is the absentee landlords were many guest do self checkin there is no control over how many guest are checking in, one reason why they turn into parties and places get trashed things get stolen, 

Some states in America require the host to be living within a certain distance from the property.

To ban airbnb altogether is not the answer you would have to ban the whole of the STR business. 

Many people prefer to rent an airbnb over a hotel I think the figures and results tell you that, You cant beat renting a nice Pool villa with a full kitchen you can go and do all your own shopping for food and drink, Ha s been popular over the years with Russian families especially when they have a couple of kids, 

Do you think there is a reason for Russians finding it popular besides their " love" for Thailand?  You seem to be quite positive about this but I feel a real "NIMBY" vibe from you. Did you read the post already about the guy who had to move out of his 17 year residence and rent a separate apartment in Jomtien? Unfortunately many other of these exact same stories in condos as well. 

[alex8912]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

The short term rental market in Thailand is huge, It's not just Airbnb, you have Booking.com, Agoda, VRBO, Trip advisor and many more. 

One big problem with the STR properties is the absentee landlords were many guest do self checkin there is no control over how many guest are checking in, one reason why they turn into parties and places get trashed things get stolen, 

Some states in America require the host to be living within a certain distance from the property.

To ban airbnb altogether is not the answer you would have to ban the whole of the STR business. 

Many people prefer to rent an airbnb over a hotel I think the figures and results tell you that, You cant beat renting a nice Pool villa with a full kitchen you can go and do all your own shopping for food and drink, Ha s been popular over the years with Russian families especially when they have a couple of kids, 

Do you think there is a reason for Russians finding it popular besides their " love" for Thailand?  You seem to be quite positive about this but I feel a real "NIMBY" vibe from you. Did you read the post already about the guy who had to move out of his 17 year residence and rent a separate apartment in Jomtien? Unfortunately many other of these exact same stories in condos as well. 

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Some lawyers are tellimg clients that if they personally own/let 4 units or less in a condo they are in compliance with the law. That is not what the exemption for guesthouses with 4 rooms or less means and not how the authorities interpret the law (when they do).

They are wrong to do so, just like the media and many on here. Airbnb is not illegal, only the owners, a bit like saying the car rental company is at fault if you break the speed limit. 

 

A 2018 court ruling in Hua Hin declared that renting out a unit for less than 30 days without having a Hotel License violated the Hotel Act and was therefore illegal. For several months after that, many people were arrested and fined for listing their condominium units on AirBnB.

https://www.juslaws.com/articles/renting-out-a-condominium-on-airbnb-in-thailand#:~:text=As of 2018%2C AirBnB has,stays longer than 30 days.

[AverageAussie]

Just as an update to the thread, it seems that the DOPA review is still ongoing. Airbnb have sent a further email communication asking for input by way of survey (just a couple of minutes long).

 

It's all self-interest of course, but this seems to be a better way to gauge overall sentiment collectively from owners rather than multiple solo submissions - probably in Thai language.

[ChipButty]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:56 AM, sandyf said:

They are wrong to do so, just like the media and many on here. Airbnb is not illegal, only the owners, a bit like saying the car rental company is at fault if you break the speed limit. 

 

A 2018 court ruling in Hua Hin declared that renting out a unit for less than 30 days without having a Hotel License violated the Hotel Act and was therefore illegal. For several months after that, many people were arrested and fined for listing their condominium units on AirBnB.

https://www.juslaws.com/articles/renting-out-a-condominium-on-airbnb-in-thailand#:~:text=As of 2018%2C AirBnB has,stays longer than 30 days.

I just read this on that legal site, 

 

If some condominium owners want to play it safe and rent freely on a nightly or weekly basis, they can ask the juristic person to apply for a Hotel License for the entire condominium. However, the requirements for obtaining a Hotel License are considerable. 

[Robert Paulson]

I think what will happen one day is people will develop ways to rent property without government being involved, as it should be. No different than buying food at a street food stall. 

[AverageAussie]

16 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

I think what will happen one day is people will develop ways to rent property without government being involved, as it should be. No different than buying food at a street food stall. 

 

I don't. There are far to many shysters around acting dishonestly and causing losses & grief for others, for governments to simply turn a blind eye. As with food vendors, all it takes is a minority to spoil it for everyone.

 

What is more likely is increasing regulation & supervision - and of course that will also result in the revenue (tax) net widening. The best we can hope for is a clear pathway for regulation and consistent enforcement to provide a more level playing field for those doing the right thing.

[ChipButty]

3 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

I think what will happen one day is people will develop ways to rent property without government being involved, as it should be. No different than buying food at a street food stall. 

All the government want is their Tax on the rental income, If they were to collect TAX would that make all STR properties legal? 

 

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, ChipButty said:

I just read this on that legal site, 

 

If some condominium owners want to play it safe and rent freely on a nightly or weekly basis, they can ask the juristic person to apply for a Hotel License for the entire condominium. However, the requirements for obtaining a Hotel License are considerable. 

Indeed, the whole condo block would be taken into consideration.

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, ChipButty said:

All the government want is their Tax on the rental income, If they were to collect TAX would that make all STR properties legal? 

 

Tax had nothing to do with it. The whole Airbnb issue is about one particular situation, individual condo  units.

The court took the view that a condo unit could not be seen in the same way as a normal domestic building. With a normal domestic building the owner would be seen to be responsible for all aspects of the premises and that cannot be said for the owner of a condo unit. If I remember right the focus was on the safety aspects of a large building and ruled all rooms had to be taken into account.

[newnative]

16 hours ago, sandyf said:

Tax had nothing to do with it. The whole Airbnb issue is about one particular situation, individual condo  units.

The court took the view that a condo unit could not be seen in the same way as a normal domestic building. With a normal domestic building the owner would be seen to be responsible for all aspects of the premises and that cannot be said for the owner of a condo unit. If I remember right the focus was on the safety aspects of a large building and ruled all rooms had to be taken into account.

And, the correct view, in my opinion.

[sandyf]

20 minutes ago, newnative said:

And, the correct view, in my opinion.

Indeed. At the time exemption from a hotel licence was granted for only a few rooms, the peception was probably a normal domestic residence. Condo blocks are a different ball game and should be seen in the same way as a hotel.

I have used Airbnb on a regular basis including Thailand ,Vietnam and China, you need some confidence that owners are in compliance with regulations that are fit for purpose.

A few years back we had a weekend at Hua Hin in a 2 bed self contained bungalow. Excellent accommodation in a lovely setting, very enjoyable. Many on here want to distort the rhetoric and claim that was illegal.

[donx]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:17 PM, AverageAussie said:

Just as an update to the thread, it seems that the DOPA review is still ongoing. Airbnb have sent a further email communication asking for input by way of survey (just a couple of minutes long).

 

It's all self-interest of course, but this seems to be a better way to gauge overall sentiment collectively from owners rather than multiple solo submissions - probably in Thai language.

 

My wife didn't received such an email from Airbnb. I'm guessing she didn't receive it because her Airbnb is a townhouse, not a condo. Are you renting a condo on Airbnb?

[MangoKorat]

On 3/27/2024 at 1:57 AM, Peterw42 said:

There is no need for airbnb to operate in Thailand.

Except for those who wish to rent an entire property. 

 

My daughter and her family regularly rent a house with a pool on Samui. They gain privacy yet the ability for the whole family to be together in the evenings, they love it - I don't see anything wrong with that. Some people prefer that sort of accommodation for their holidays. I'm pretty sure my daughter wouldn't visit Thailand if she couldn't rent a house, there are plenty of other destinations where such accommodation is available.

 

I've seen people mention the downsides of AirBnB rentals - noise etc. and I wouldn't want that. Surely that's better dealt with by requiring the landlord to take responsibility for his tenants?

[MangoKorat]

On 3/27/2024 at 1:57 AM, Peterw42 said:

There is no need for airbnb to operate in Thailand.

Except for those who wish to rent an entire property. 

 

My daughter and her family regularly rent a house with a pool on Samui. They gain privacy yet the ability for the whole family to be together in the evenings, they love it - I don't see anything wrong with that. Some people prefer that sort of accommodation for their holidays. I'm pretty sure my daughter wouldn't visit Thailand if she couldn't rent a house, there are plenty of other destinations where such accommodation is available.

 

I've seen people mention the downsides of AirBnB rentals - noise etc. and I wouldn't want that. Surely that's better dealt with by requiring the landlord to take responsibility for his tenants?

[AverageAussie]

@donx Yes.