Road accident scenario, what would happen?

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, paddyfield7 said:

but the answer was that the fine was risen because our two cars touched each other. TiT at it's best.....

Thai people struggle with logic. I don't even think they know what the purpose of laws are or why they have them. 

[NorthernRyland]

52 minutes ago, Dan O said:

I slowed more to make the turn which was a sharp left and at the last second she decided to try to pass me on the shoulder on the left

What do they want people to do? You have all these morons speeding around trying to insert themselves into little gaps and making an imaginary lane on the left which cars need to pass in order to turn. It's just dumb and obviously people are getting hurt. No lessons will be learned of course.

[rattlesnake]

41 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

What do they want people to do? You have all these morons speeding around trying to insert themselves into little gaps and making an imaginary lane on the left which cars need to pass in order to turn. It's just dumb and obviously people are getting hurt. No lessons will be learned of course.

 

Yes, but unfortunately that is what they do and they will keep on doing it, so we have to adapt to it and anticipate what they do, in lots of cases I will be looking at the rearview mirror as much as the road itself.

 

Dan O's story is a perfect example of the mentality here in this respect. They can't drive but they think that "farang mai roo ruang" (farangs don't have a clue) and in case of a road accident they are preprogrammed to blame it on us.

 

All we can do is perfect the art of defensive driving, know them and know what they are going to do before they do it, and as stated before, have cameras and a top insurance that will cover us in the unfortunate case it should happen.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

Thai people struggle with logic. I don't even think they know what the purpose of laws are or why they have them. 

 

But then, what is the point of knowing the laws if the laws are not applied?

I guess many Thais know from a couple of cases when others had accidents and xyz happened.

Was that according to the law? Or was that just the way it is?

It would be nice if the laws and reality match. But it seems that is seldom the case. So what is more important, knowing the theoretical laws or knowing reality?

 

[Confuscious]

2 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

But just how much is that going to cost you if you are 100% innocent.

There is no 100% innocence.

Remember the rule that if I was not there, no accident would have happened.

I followed the advice of the police and everyone was happy.

A few years later I needed their help and they remembered my good will.

[dirtybirty]

Be legal to drive full stop ie appropriate license esp Thai 1" helps

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

There is no 100% innocence.

Remember the rule that if I was not there, no accident would have happened.

I followed the advice of the police and everyone was happy.

A few years later I needed their help and they remembered my good will.

If the other person was not there there would still have been no accident, I don't care who says it, a person can very easily be 100% innocent, ie someone sitting waiting patiently at a red light then being rammed from behind.

[rwill]

10 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Do you think good advice doesn't apply worldwide?

Good advice does not apply here.  Those who think they have the 'right of way' are in for a rude awaking here.

 

When driving you have to anticipate people doing the unexpected here.

[Confuscious]

3 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

If the other person was not there there would still have been no accident, I don't care who says it, a person can very easily be 100% innocent, ie someone sitting waiting patiently at a red light then being rammed from behind.

Most people here don't have a clue about traffic rules in Thailand.

In Thailand it is the police who does the investigation AND the decision about who is right or wrong.

So many cases where anyone would decide that driver A was right will turn after investigation by the police into driver A was wrong.

Example: when a minor kid is involved driving a motorcycle without a helmet and in the wrong direction and the party who hit the motorcycle will be wrong.

Sure, you can disagree with the decision of the police.

I wish you good luck with that.

[NorthernRyland]

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Dan O's story is a perfect example of the mentality here in this respect. They can't drive but they think that "farang mai roo ruang" (farangs don't have a clue) and in case of a road accident they are preprogrammed to blame it on us.

 

it's tragic because they don't know what they don't know so they can't be reasoned with.

[Tropicalevo]

There is the letter of Thai law and then there is the spirit of Thai law.

I was on a course for foreigners given by one of the universities in Bangkok.

This example is regarding property but it applies in most areas.

It was to do with preference shares on a company for a foreigner to own land.

Thais have 60% of the preference shares type A.

Foreigners has 40% of preference shares - type B

Type B shares are worth 2 type A shares.

The lecturer said that technically, this follows the letter of the law. (60% Thai owned.)

The lecturer said that if there was an ownership dispute over the land - the Thais would always win. The law cannot accept that a foreigner is worth two Thais.

Second example -

A friend of mine was killed by a hitman. It was a business dispute.

The man who ordered the killing was a millionaire from the USA.

They gaoled the hitman but the millionaire got off on a 'technicality'.

He then sued the widow (Thai girl) for deformation from statements that she made at the trial. She had heard the American threaten to kill her husband.

The closing argument from the widow's lawyer was 'how can we let a rich farang sue a poor Thai citizen who has lost her husband?'

Case dismissed.

Last example -

I was involved in a nasty traffic accident where a rich Thai guy died.

The police said that I was innocent (the Thais had been drinking and the driver was drunk).

The judge said that I was innocent but....

I was a foreigner and the Thai family could not be seen to loose. I would have to be found guilty along with the Thai driver (50/50)

I was fined (a very small amount) - so was the Thai driver. I had to pay compensation to the family and the Thai driver and I both received a suspended prison sentence.

There is the letter of Thai law and then there is the spirit of Thai law.

[richard_smith237]

10 hours ago, Confuscious said:

My advice: if you have an accident, CALL YOUR LAWYER AND LET HIM HANDLE EVERYTHING!!!!

 

You keep a lawyer on retainer in Thailand ?

 

Who actually has the contacts of 'any' Thai lawyer who can respond to their beck and call ?

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Sure, you can disagree with the decision of the police.

I wish you good luck with that.

 

Isn't that what calling your 'personal lawyer' is for ???

 

 

2 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Most people here don't have a clue about traffic rules in Thailand.

 

Agreed... you seem like one of them.

 

Its ok to disagree with the decision opinion of the police, they don't have the final say, they only influence proceedings at the scene of simple situations to resolve them as quickly as possible often along the path of least resistance. 

Edited April 3 by richard_smith237

[Confuscious]

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You keep a lawyer on retainer in Thailand ?

 

Who actually has the contacts of 'any' Thai lawyer who can respond to their beck and call ?

 

 

 

 

I do, and not only one

[Confuscious]

27 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Isn't that what calling your 'personal lawyer' is for ???

 

 

 

Agreed... you seem like one of them.

 

Its ok to disagree with the decision opinion of the police, they don't have the final say, they only influence proceedings at the scene of simple situations to resolve them as quickly as possible often along the path of least resistance. 

That's the reason why the red bull scion is still free.

Because the police doesn't follow your rules.

[JBChiangRai]

23 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Do you think good advice doesn't apply worldwide?

 

12 hours ago, rwill said:

Good advice does not apply here.  Those who think they have the 'right of way' are in for a rude awaking here.

 

When driving you have to anticipate people doing the unexpected here.

 

That sounds like good advice, does that mean it doesn't apply here?

[HuaHinNew]

IMHO of 40 years visiting, working and now retired here in Thailand

 

Most, and I do mean most, Thai drivers of any vehicles here are actually brain-dead.

 

No common sense of defensive driving skills, no or little knowledge or adherence of the road rules, no situational awareness, no consideration for other road users, always speeding, rarely obeying speed limit restriction signs, always tailgating and pushing vehicles in front of them to go faster, never stopping at Zebra crossings and always speeding in a hurry to create an accident to kill and or mane others.

 

And in particular motorbike antics, well not enough space here to cover their stupidity.

 

Just look at the annual road stats here, they confirm my observations and experiences.

 

You can't put brains in statues.

 

PS. Add to that the almost zero police enforcement of violators and lack of harsh government penalties to curb the wild west roadway craziness of Thai drivers.

 

 

[foreverlomsak]

20 hours ago, Guderian said:

Thai traffic rules say that motorbikes should keep to the left-hand side of the road, an dthat would make things safer if it was enforced. But hey, this is Thailand, just do whatever the heck you feel like doing, lol.

Maybe they do not class themselves as road users therefore traffic rules don't apply to them.

Had this argument with a cyclist in the UK that nearly hit me because he didn't stop for the red light at a pedestrian crossing, he argued that he was not a road user but was a pedestrian on wheels therefore the red light didn't apply to him.

[foreverlomsak]

6 minutes ago, HuaHinNew said:

PS. Add to that the almost zero police enforcement of violators and lack of harsh government penalties to curb the wild west roadway craziness of Thai drivers.

 

 

Are you sure it's not a form of population control being utilized by the Thai government

[OneMoreFarang]

34 minutes ago, HuaHinNew said:

IMHO of 40 years visiting, working and now retired here in Thailand

 

Most, and I do mean most, Thai drivers of any vehicles here are actually brain-dead.

 

No common sense of defensive driving skills, no or little knowledge or adherence of the road rules, no situational awareness, no consideration for other road users, always speeding, rarely obeying speed limit restriction signs, always tailgating and pushing vehicles in front of them to go faster, never stopping at Zebra crossings and always speeding in a hurry to create an accident to kill and or mane others.

 

And in particular motorbike antics, well not enough space here to cover their stupidity.

 

Just look at the annual road stats here, they confirm my observations and experiences.

 

You can't put brains in statues.

 

PS. Add to that the almost zero police enforcement of violators and lack of harsh government penalties to curb the wild west roadway craziness of Thai drivers.

 

I don't agree.

It seems to me that most of them just think different than many of us do.

Some examples:

 

People riding the wrong way in a one-way street: For Thais that is normal and expected behavior. Many farangs are surprised when they see people riding in the wrong direction - because this is not what we expected. Thais expect it, and this is why most of the time this is no problem if only Thais are on the streets.

 

Zebra crossings, or any street crossings: Thais are used to the fact that the stronger one will win. Cars make sure they watch out for trucks. Motorcycle riders look out for cars and trucks. And pedestrians are the weakest and they look out for anything moving. And with Thais that works most of the time. They don't just walk only because there is a green light. They look out for anything dangerous moving and they only walk if no danger is in sight.

 

I rode with my big bike slowly in a small soi. Behind me was a motorcycle taxi. At some stage I had to brake. I did, and the motorcycle rider behind me "crashed" against my bike. It wasn't fast and nobody was hurt. Then that motorcycle taxi rider complained that I was braking hard. Like: Your bike has very good brakes, my bike has weak brakes. You should have braked only a little because you knew I was behind you. So much about that logic. But I am sure many Thais will understand this and act accordingly.

 

All in all, I still think it would be better if everybody would know and obey the official rules. But I accept that Thais are used to other, not so official rules. And they get along like that most of the time. So are they brain dead? Or are they just used to reality and live according to reality and not according to some rules nobody obeys? 

 

[NorthernRyland]

12 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

There is the letter of Thai law and then there is the spirit of Thai law.

Makes sense. The "spirit" of the law nullifies the actual intent of the law. Complete 180 to civilized countries with strong rule of law. 

[NorthernRyland]

37 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I rode with my big bike slowly in a small soi. Behind me was a motorcycle taxi. At some stage I had to brake. I did, and the motorcycle rider behind me "crashed" against my bike. It wasn't fast and nobody was hurt. Then that motorcycle taxi rider complained that I was braking hard. Like: Your bike has very good brakes, my bike has weak brakes. You should have braked only a little because you knew I was behind you. So much about that logic. But I am sure many Thais will understand this and act accordingly.

 

 

so sad, this is the thinking of a child. Refuses to take responsibility for their actions.

[JBChiangRai]

There is a difference with Thai drivers.

 

They don't anticipate or plan.  for example, almost every occasion when a car in front is turning right, I am already moving into the left lane to go past them.  This doesn't happen with Thai, they are surprised and stop and then look to see if it's clear to move to the left to pass.

 

When I am driving, I am not only watching the car in front, but all the cars in front of that one, Thai don't do that, they are only watching the car in front.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

for example, almost every occasion when a car in front is turning right, I am already moving into the left lane to go past them.  This doesn't happen with Thai, they are surprised and stop and then look to see if it's clear to move to the left to pass.

 

How many "stop and then look to see if it's clear to move"?

In my experience they just move. And often they have no mirrors or only use them to check their makeup. 

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

How many "stop and then look to see if it's clear to move"?

In my experience they just move. And often they have no mirrors or only use them to check their makeup. 

 

Sadly, you are right.

[brewsterbudgen]

On 4/3/2024 at 2:52 PM, Dan O said:

I had an accident a couple months ago. I was driving my truck at posted speed limit in the left lane and a thai girl on a scooter was behind me about 50 to 70 meters in the lane not on the shoulder. About 100 feet before my soi I put on my turn signal and started to slow down. Check to the right and looked behind me as I was reaching the turn.  She was closer, about 25 meters but still in the lane behind me. I slowed more to make the turn which was a sharp left and at the last second she decided to try to pass me on the shoulder on the left side where I was turning. She hit me in the back fender and slide down the whole side of the truck falling in the street in front of me. Several of the locals came over and where yacking at me that it was my fault although no one was outside when it occured. I picked the bike up off the girl who had 2 cuts on her foot and a little road rash on her elbow. Then the locals pushed me away and wouldnt let me near her. Ambulance came and took her away and police showed up a few minutes later. all the locals claimed she was beside me when I hit her, well partially true she did hit me in the side. No CCTV anywhere. Cop talked to me and the locals and draw a picture showing exactly what I just described. We went to the police station and my insurance guy showed up, she had none. Cop showed the insurance guy the pic he had drawn which was accurate and they spoke in thai to each other. The insurance guy then says to me that I am at fault as I was turning and she was going straight so she had right of way ??????? and I was suppose to stop and let her pass me before I turned. I said no and explained again what happened and showed the pic the cop had drawn and said she tried to pass me on the shoulder knowing I was turning. He just kept smiling and said ok wait here and went back to talk to the cop. Cop comes back with the insurance guy and with a straight face says Im at fault because I cant prove my story and the locals all claimed they saw it. He then says the damage to the truck looks like you described though BUT if I agree to just say I did not see her when she was passing me as I was turning no charges would be filed and the insurance guy would agree to pay for her bike and medical damages and lost wages. The cop said if I dont agree the girls family already want to press charges against me and he doesnt want that as it can be solved easily and he promised that no charges or court and fees to me. SO the insurance guys writes up the report just as I described but inserts a line that said "as I was making my turn I did not see the girl start to pass me on the shoulder and we collided. Insurance agrees to accept responsibility for the damages and medical and no charges are filed." I read it over a couple times and was not happy about it and told the insurance guy and cop that.  The cop, who was actually a pretty decent guy, says to me, look your a foreigner and I have nothing I can put into the report and no cctv to back up your explanation. They have the locals that claim they saw it and if it goes to court who do you think will win? So I say ok and he took the insurance report and on his official police accident report just made a note saying see accident diagram and insurance report. I signed the insurance report, no charges or fees and the cop kept his word and actually told the family at one point they needed to be thankful everything was paid for and she wasnt killed for being stupid and hoped she will remember this.

A good solution for all.  Nice to see that the myth about always blaming the foreigner is indeed a myth.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

A good solution for all.  Nice to see that the myth about always blaming the foreigner is indeed a myth.

I wast overly happy as the girl was clearly at fault but the policeman was trying to go down the middle, make everyone whole as possible and was pretty honest that what he saw wasn't my fault but he or I couldn't  provide anything to back it up. He was also honest that if the family was able to make him press charges i would lose and cost more and be a big hassle for all. He did hold the family in check as he promised as they saw $ signs. He even threw the brother out of the station at one point that night as the brother came in pressed him on why they didn't drug or alcohol test. Cop just looked at him and asked him was he saying that he didn't know how to investigate an accident ? He said i wasn't on drugs or drinking and actually went out of my way to make sure the girl was ok. Told him to go home or he wouldnt like how the next conversation was going to go. He never asked or implied any donation needed to him in any way either. So the myth of all the cops are after money or against foreigners isn't accurate although I'm sure it happens more in the highly tourist areas. I live down in NST in a smaller town so not a tourist area in any way. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Nice to see that the myth about always blaming the foreigner is indeed a myth.

 

I can confirm that one.

I tried to make a U-turn with my bike and I waited for the traffic.

A guy with a shiny new red forza decided he wanted to do that faster. So he made a U-turn next to me. And then he scrapped his bike against the front axle of my bike. 

I saw some paint on the metal axle, no problem.

He had a good visible scratch on his shiny new bike. 

He complained. I told him it's his fault. He insisted we go to the next police booth.

When we arrived there, maybe 500m away from the place where it happened, the Thai guy told the police and obviously he blamed me.

I told the police officer in Thai what happened and that I don't think I am guilty in any way.

The police officer decided I am innocent and sent us away.

 

That was obviously only a small incident. But I guess a paint job or new plastic part for that bike would have cost a couple of thousand THB. So, it was good that the police officer confirmed that I didn't do anything wrong.

[kwilco]

On 4/2/2024 at 3:15 PM, NorthernRyland said:

Today I was on my road bike and some guy on very tall motorbike passed me dangerously close with a young kid sitting on the back, maybe 8 or so years old. This happens all the time and it always gets me thinking. One of these days I'm going to swerve 1 or 2 feet to avoid something or raise my arm and we're going to collide. If it was today that kid would be fall off the bike and if he survived probably get ran over by a passing car. It would be horrible and I can't believe I don't see this type of accident more often since people so often pass within feet of each other.

 

What does Thai law say here? I'm sure there's some legal passing limit but obviously no one follows the laws here. I believe that they simply blame the person who caused the most damage which could be me. Would I possibly be on the line for killing some guys kids? Was it my fault for lifting my arm and hitting the poor guy just trying to home? In absence of laws anything seems possible to me.

 

Oh and if you ever got in one of these yourself please share your story. 🙏

1 - the law - If you swerved, it's your fault. Simple. You re meant to drive in such a way as to stop before hitting an obstacle in front of you.

 

2 - To understand roa safety you have to stop using the blame game and take a holisitc view of the situation.

Edited April 4 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:12 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

lots of crazy riders who ignore any safety margins.

so what are these 'margins" - and is it only motorcyclists who "ignore" them?