Thailand’s PTT Plc sees future in hydrogen fuel for vehicles

[webfact]

 

PTT Plc, Thailand’s national oil and gas conglomerate, is forecasting a future where hydrogen could potentially replace oil-powered vehicles, contributing to the reduction of air pollutants. This year, the company’s subsidiary Arun Plus, in collaboration with Taiwan’s Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., is planning to domestically produce electric vehicles (EVs).

 

Additionally, PTT is partnering with various companies to advance the development of hydrogen fuel.

 

Recently, PTT signed a memorandum of understanding with the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand and ACWA Power, a Saudi Arabian renewable energy company, to jointly develop green hydrogen. The objective of the collaboration is to make green hydrogen production financially feasible.

 

Buranin Rattanasombat, PTT’s head of new business and infrastructure, acknowledged that creating hydrogen fuel on a commercial scale for the automotive industry is a challenging task. He noted that Japanese automakers have spent years researching this fuel.

Addressing the comparison between batteries and hydrogen for cars, he conceded that currently, batteries are the superior option. However, he was quick to add that this does not negate the potential importance of hydrogen fuel development.

Hydrogen has already found application in larger vehicles, such as trucks and buses, and in some factories, Buranin stated. The cost of producing green hydrogen is significant since renewable energy is used to separate water molecules into oxygen and hydrogen.

 

He suggested that countries eager to transition to hydrogen fuel could initially opt for grey hydrogen, which is derived from natural gas. Though not the ideal choice for carbon reduction campaigns, it is a more feasible option. As per a World Economic Forum article, grey hydrogen is produced through a steam reforming process. This method generates fewer emissions compared to using black or brown coal for hydrogen production, reported Bangkok Post.

 

“Producing grey hydrogen at a gas separation plant or an oil refinery is simpler than manufacturing batteries for cars,” Buranin contended. He expressed his belief that a key reason for Japanese firms’ interest in hydrogen fuel development is that it necessitates fewer alterations in oil-powered engine technology than a switch to electric mobility technology would require.

 

by Alex Morgan

Picture courtesy of Bangkok Post

 

Source: The Thaiger 2024-04-18

 

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[dinsdale]

Thailand’s PTT Plc sees future in hydrogen fuel for vehicles

Thailand: The HUB of being late to the party.

PTT Plc, Thailand’s national oil and gas conglomerate, is forecasting a future where hydrogen could potentially replace oil-powered vehicles,

Edited April 18 by dinsdale

[mfd101]

It's going to be fascinating to watch the hydrogen vs EV contest over the next 20 years. Too early to tell which will win. Both are in their infancy, though EV is clearly well ahead at this stage.

 

Meantime - here in Isaan - I'm sticking with petrol.

Edited April 18 by mfd101

[Artisi]

Thailand would be better off concentrating on reducing pollution from all other "Thai-induced " pollutants like crop burn-offs etc than worrying about the pipe dreaming of being a hub of hydrogen or electric vehicle development.     

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

It's going to be fascinating to watch the hydrogen vs EV contest over the next 20 years. Too early to tell which will win. Both are in their infancy, though EV is clearly well ahead at this stage.

 

Meantime - here in Isaan - I'm sticking with petrol.

I think if properly managed Hydrogen is the way to go... It can be mass produced and no need to dig up the planet to make batteries.

[KhunLA]

Anything is better than petrol & especially diesel 

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Thailand’s PTT Plc sees future in hydrogen fuel for vehicles

Thailand: The HUB of being late to the party.

PTT Plc, Thailand’s national oil and gas conglomerate, is forecasting a future where hydrogen could potentially replace oil-powered vehicles,

Appears everyone else is late to the party also, since H2 tech has been around for well over 25 yrs, and nobody seems to want to make use of it, for personal vehicles anyway.  4 countries using, but doubt if much is used for personal vehicles.

 

source

Edited April 18 by KhunLA

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

creating hydrogen fuel on a commercial scale for the automotive industry is a challenging task. He noted that Japanese automakers have spent years researching this fuel.

Technology has been around for years (decades?). Not commercially viable, adaptable, distributive, and dangerous to the environment. 

"Why hydrogen cars are not the answer," by Russell Hayes

January 27, 2023 thecarexpert.co.uk

• Infrastructure - Hydrogen storage demands purpose-built facilities, which can’t simply be pluged into the national grid like a battery charging point. 
• Car makers (ie., Japan) who have already built production hydrogen fuel cell cars have tended to be those who want to showcase their technical expertise rather than make a profit from them. 

 

 

[Burma Bill]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

where hydrogen could potentially replace oil-powered vehicles,

 

Well I never - like Corporal Jones Butchers Van (Dads Army, UK comedy):

 

[dinsdale]

41 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Technology has been around for years (decades?). Not commercially viable, adaptable, distributive, and dangerous to the environment. 

"Why hydrogen cars are not the answer," by Russell Hayes

January 27, 2023 thecarexpert.co.uk

• Infrastructure - Hydrogen storage demands purpose-built facilities, which can’t simply be pluged into the national grid like a battery charging point. 
• Car makers (ie., Japan) who have already built production hydrogen fuel cell cars have tended to be those who want to showcase their technical expertise rather than make a profit from them. 

 

 

New battery technology and hyrdrogen cell/liquid hydrogen technology isn't too far away. Lithium ion batteries are on the way out. This was my point. 

Edited April 18 by dinsdale

[KhunLA]

34 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Technology has been around for years (decades?). Not commercially viable, adaptable, distributive, and dangerous to the environment. 

"Why hydrogen cars are not the answer," by Russell Hayes

January 27, 2023 thecarexpert.co.uk

• Infrastructure - Hydrogen storage demands purpose-built facilities, which can’t simply be pluged into the national grid like a battery charging point. 
• Car makers (ie., Japan) who have already built production hydrogen fuel cell cars have tended to be those who want to showcase their technical expertise rather than make a profit from them. 

Yep ... keep it in the news, anything to not promote BEVs and make people think there's an alternative right around the corner.   They and big oil/fossil fuel conglomerates ain't giving up the profits of their high maintenance ICEVs.

 

Why BEV development has be stifled outside of CH.

[edwinchester]

51 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

 

Well I never - like Corporal Jones Butchers Van (Dads Army, UK comedy):

 

They used coal gas in WW2.

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Appears everyone else is late to the party also, since H2 tech has been around for well over 25 yrs, and nobody seems to want to make use of it, for personal vehicles anyway.  4 countries using, but doubt if much is used for personal vehicles.

 

source

Hydrogen fueling stations are very expensive unfortunately.

I'd love to be able to generate my own hydrogen from solar/wind and use it to power my home and transport. Hopefully will happen one day.

[digger70]

future in hydrogen fuel for vehicles

 

Yes .no EV's no need for dirty electric cars . 

IC Engine cars  run on Hydrogen and are Clean .

No need for expensive EV's & dirty Batteries .

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

New battery technology and hyrdrogen cell/liquid hydrogen technology isn't too far away. Lithium ion batteries are on the way out. This was my point. 

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

future in hydrogen fuel for vehicles

 

Yes .no EV's no need for dirty electric cars . 

IC Engine cars  run on Hydrogen and are Clean .

No need for expensive EV's & dirty Batteries .

 

 

Lithium Ion is being replaced with Lithium Iron Phosphate in all but extended range/performance variants and there will be huge improvements in battery technology.

 

Hydrogen Fuel Cell will find its way into long distance haulage/transportation but it’s too expensive for the humble motor car.  It costs 5 times more per kilometer than a BEV because of inefficiencies of either ICE or HFCEV.

 

Liquid Hydrogen is a non-starter (despite Toyota announcing it this month) for several reasons, principally you use a third of the energy in the hydrogen to compress it into a liquid, secondly, it has to be stored in cryogenic tanks at -253°C  that means you can’t park it up for a few days.

[Burma Bill]

1 hour ago, edwinchester said:

They used coal gas in WW2.

 

With respect, yes indeed and coal gas contains hydrogen (Google)

 

 

Common characteristic of coal-derived gases is to be chiefly composed of hydrogen which in- cludes high amounts of energy. In addition to this, coke oven and town gases comprise of near about methane of 25 % that is essential component of natural gas.

 

[xtrnuno41]

They must look further. In Rayong you have industrie, For heating process you use gas, oil .

You change to hydrogen, instantly used by industrie for heat generation. Proces gets cleaner.

Generated by solar, means green. Electrolyse.

For cars, mostly you have membrane technology and they are driving on the roads these days.

However problem is always storage with hydrogen. The cars have a tank of 5 kg, good enough for 500 km.

Trucks 80 kg for 800 km, but ok they are bigger, more weight.

But then it is 5 kg under 700 bar pressure. Better hope the tank will never fail.

And the other thing is the cells are quite expensive.

For industrie they are working on it in "my country" and even want to use the existing gas pipelines, so pressure is way lower.

Making H2 by wind energy, windmill, elektrolyse of water.

At least if they can find a way of all kinds of arguing about the production, transportation, controlling and so on.

After all it is only about the money. Climate is just second.

 

Lithium winning is not green at all. They are now working on a sodium battery, a solid state battery.

An SSB is the new kind of battery, now also made but then still with Li.

Sodium we have a lot. Lithium way less and harder to get.

  

[rickudon]

All the hydrogen enthusiasts - if you want green hydrogen, you need electricity. If you have electricity, cheaper to use directly than use it to hydrolyse water. (you need 50 KWH to make 1 kg Hydrogen). Then burning hydrogen will involve another loss of energy as waste heat. And the extra transformational steps mean that their are additional production costs. Currently, hydrogen as a fuel for cars would be about 3-5 more expensive than petrol.

 

The new sodium ion batteries are the future. Cheaper, safer, less dangerous to the environment and longer lasting. Just not as powerful as Lithium ones.