Frozen pension policy turns British expat's dream into a nightmare

[Hugh Jarse]

21 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Wow ok 24yrs ago.

 

Sounds like piss poor planning from those whinging about it now !

Why poor planning? Brit’s were not told about this when the moved abroad and believed they would be entitled to a pension based on their contributions not their residency!

[transam]

2 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

How does this frozen pension thing affect guys who have been abroad decades?

If you move to any country that does not have social security agreement your pension is locked.

There are veterans that moved to Canada, and get a few pounds pension..😥..I read where one bloke gets 45 quid a week.......🥴

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Has this policy changed recently?

 

I thought this was an old policy.

 

Why is everyone talking about it again now?

 

The wrongs of the past are never old, how do you think women got the vote or gay men avoided prison.

A recent petition on the subject reached a level that required an answer in the House. This brought about media coverage that has never been seen in the past and a significant increase in public awareness, the majority of the UK public have no idea.

Petition and answer can be seen here.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2024-02-19/debates/24021975000085/FrozenBritishPensions

[bkk_mike]

1 minute ago, trainman34014 said:

I paid in huge amounts of NI for the full 50 years of my working life but will never get a rise in Pension living here !   However; i knew that before coming here and prepared myself financially.     Those that don't do so are just poor Managers of money and should live where they can get the increases, simple is it not  ?

Admittedly, as I know the pension would be frozen if we lived in Thailand full-time, our plan is to winter in Thailand, and stay in the UK in the summers,,,

Means we can fly in October/March when flights are cheap, and has the added side-benefit of keeping us from having to deal with Thai tax returns.

 

But I'm not dependent on the UK state pension. It's just icing on the cake.

[trainman34014]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jarse said:

Why poor planning? Brit’s were not told about this when the moved abroad and believed they would be entitled to a pension based on their contributions not their residency!

Didn't read the small print then did they or do enough homework !

[trainman34014]

3 minutes ago, bkk_mike said:

Admittedly, as I know the pension would be frozen if we lived in Thailand full-time, our plan is to winter in Thailand, and stay in the UK in the summers,,,

Means we can fly in October/March when flights are cheap, and has the added side-benefit of keeping us from having to deal with Thai tax returns.

 

But I'm not dependent on the UK state pension. It's just icing on the cake.

Good plan if that's what you wanted because as long as you spend 6 months of the year in Blighty you are entitled to a full Pension.

[superal]

2 hours ago, delgarcon said:

For those of you that are already living here, as far as the uk gov is concerned, youve missed the boat I'm afraid. For those who are thinking about retiring in Thailand, here's some advice on how to keep your pension up to date.

1) Keep your UK bank account open to use for the payment of your pension

2)You need an address where HM Gov can write to you (a family member, an ex wife who still loves you😄 for example) who will e-mail you the correspondence, particularly life certs, which you can download, print and get the local pharmacist, for example,to sign and stamp.

3)You have 16 weeks from the date of the letter accompanying the certificate, to return the certificate IN THE BROWN ENVELOPE, which your co conspirator must keep and post when he/she receives the signed cert from you.

4)Keep a record of the dates of correspondence in case you get a letter from HM gov asking you where you have been living for the last year. You have to tell them you were in Thailand when you were sent the L.C. for example.

I don't believe that you will be asked for proof of where you were living (I wasn't), just make sure you don't drop yourself in it. Remember that the Pension service is very busy and that they're not going to waste time chasing a few quid. In 12 years I've never been asked why some of .my life certificates have been signed in Thailand.

Are you saying that the HM gov will accept a down loaded signed copy of a life cert ? I thought that the signature had to be an original which is signed on the original life cert form . 

[Andycoops]

2 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

Yes two weeks out of the full year if you are lucky.

Complete <deleted>.

 

I pay income tax on my pensions because my combined income means they they are over the 12570 GBP allowed tax free.

So in fact I pay for UK services I never use and haven't in nearly 16 years but can't have any increase to my 40 years of NI contributions to my state pension.

 

Get the facts right.

 

If your income is over the minimum for tax and your income arises in the UK you will be paying income tax, regardless of where you live.

[delgarcon]

24 minutes ago, transam said:

Noooooo, whodathought, but you forgot, use your daughter to do all the paperwork and signing for you, plus pay your pension to your daughter, then she can send out here to you in LOS..

Cos DWP would never work that one out........................🤣

wtf are you talking about?

[Jiggo]

21 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

interesting:

 

Most British Commonwealth countries are included in the frozen list;[8] these include countries, such as Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, Thailand and India, as well as British overseas territories such as the Falkland Islands.[9]

 

Wonder if Thailand knows the Brits claim it.

 

from here:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_state_pension

But not frozen if you reside in the Philippines.

[transam]

1 minute ago, superal said:

Are you saying that the HM gov will accept a down loaded signed copy of a life cert ? I thought that the signature had to be an original which is signed on the original life cert form . 

........and witnessed, signed and dated by  a witness in your presence stating what evidence they are witnessing if sent by post.

They do nothing by email except send you a Life Cert if requested.

Few weeks back I told them about an address spelling mistake and change of phone number, had an email back saying must do by post or talk on the phone/skype, of course using that method they know exactly where you are.. 

 

So I downloaded a form, got it witnessed and sent it off, about 10 days later I had a message on my phone saying....

"We have processed your Life Certificate. You do not need to contact us"..

[sungod]

20 hours ago, dinsdale said:

 Apart from this once again this AI article lacks any editing demonstated in the subheading.

 

I thought Michael Bridge was bad, but compared to plagiarized AI articles I may start a campaign to bring him back!

[transam]

7 minutes ago, delgarcon said:

wtf are you talking about?

If you can't work it out, forget it..................🤭

[kiwikeith]

20 hours ago, Keeps said:

It is my mother's 80th birthday today. She has received a letter from the DWP advising that she will be receiving a 25 PENCE per week increase in her state pension for reaching this milestone.

 

It probably cost a months worth of the increase just to notify her by post.  

Ok translation, does this mean you will still get your govt pension, but no increase, not no pension at all, if so your lucky, because they could stop it being portable, then all of us, Aussie and kiwi would follow suit, disaster waiting to happen, we all know they want to take pensions off us. Australians have to return to Aussie every 6 months to continue their pension, now it's turned into a govt scandal if we let them. 

Stupid Thai tax started the whole thing. 

[delgarcon]

10 minutes ago, superal said:

Are you saying that the HM gov will accept a down loaded signed copy of a life cert ? I thought that the signature had to be an original which is signed on the original life cert form . 

Work it out superal. You download a copy, print it, get it signed and return it to your partner in crime who then puts it into the brown envelope and posts it.

[transam]

A couple of years back a friend died, his pension was paid for months more, his wife showed me the letters regarding paying the overpayment back. It was about 2000+ quid....

 

I told her the overpayments are nothing to do with you, you have no knowledge of his financial stuff. Ignore it, think one more letter, then nothing.  🤗

 

Though, it proves they have a department dealing with lost taxpayers money...🤔

So if you are still alive......Hmmmmm............🤭

[Toby1947]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Tell them you live in the Philippines then you get full pension!

Great idea, but when they send you correspondence to the Philippines and they receive no response. Guess what happens you got it payment is totally stopped. Happening all the time with those fiddlers who try to tell them they are still living in the UK. 

[dinsdale]

8 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

Ok translation, does this mean you will still get your govt pension, but no increase, not no pension at all, if so your lucky, because they could stop it being portable, then all of us, Aussie and kiwi would follow suit, disaster waiting to happen, we all know they want to take pensions off us. Australians have to return to Aussie every 6 months to continue their pension, now it's turned into a govt scandal if we let them. 

Stupid Thai tax started the whole thing. 

Or have to go back Aus and live there for 5 years I think it is before you can claim an overseas old age pension. There are also other big obstacles but no need to go into it.

 

[BritManToo]

Just now, Toby1947 said:

Great idea, but when they send you correspondence to the Philippines and they receive no response. Guess what happens you got it payment is totally stopped. Happening all the time with those fiddlers who try to tell them they are still living in the UK. 

The only reason they can stop your pension is if they think you're dead.

[VBF]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They take my word that I still live in England without any documentation.

So why wouldn't they believe I was living in the Philippines without any documentation?

 

As for looking at passport stamps, I always tell everyone I don't have a passport.

There's no requirement for Brit citizens living in the UK to have a passport.

And you don't think that the DWP (a government department) cannot get access to the Passport Office  (a government department) records if they suspect wrongdoing's?

Your faith in the promised privacy is, IMO. a little naïve! 

[sambum]

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), despite mounting criticism, stands by this policy, asserting that "it has been in place for over 70 years."

 

I was at a Managment Training Course a few years ago, and the instructor said that one of the biggest hurdles to progress in the workplace was "But, we've always done it this way!"

 

Remarkably similar standpoint from the DWP! Just because the system has been in place for over 70 years doesn't necessarily mean that it is right or fair.

 

 

[In Full Agreement]

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

"and a bottle of whisky daily all for £170 a week". 

 

 

 

Better keep close tabs on your alcohol consumption if you want to live a long life.

[Chivas]

37 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

Correct there have been recent articles in the UK press about the state pension being tax free because the threshold for paying tax is being outstripped by the triple lock increases, putting pensioners in the the tax bracket...

 

Yes Pensioners may have been dragged (marginally) into the taxation bracket but only over and above the tax code that we all have to the day we die

 

All income is grouped together but normally any tax due is collected from other income(private pensions/ dividends etc) but if there is not additional income than yes the state pension could suffer slight taxation but only on the excess over and above tax coding which many simply dont grasp

 

The state pension (like all income_ in retirement is subject to tax where applicable ie in excess of tax coding

[VBF]

9 hours ago, Chongalulu said:

No,it doesn’t work like that. You’d get the unfrozen amount for the time you were there then it’s refrozen when you leave at the rate it was originally frozen at. There’s no reset.

I believe that's wrong - it would be unfrozen when you claimed it (as you say), but then refrozen at the now prevailing rate when you left.

[sambum]

22 hours ago, orchis said:

I think 2000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_state_pension

 

From the OP above:- 

"The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), despite mounting criticism, stands by this policy, asserting that it has been in place for over 70 years." 

 

 

[sambum]

22 hours ago, worgeordie said:

it's called  inflation , Brexit did not help , Then Covid  , ,I don't think anyone thought  things

would turn out like this , I am still on 90 quid a week ,good job I don't need it as provided

for myself before retiring at 42 , But I can feel for those relying here on pension only, no

way will we get any relief from the British Government ,too busy looking after immigrants.

 

regards Worgeordie

 

Spot on, Geordie lad!

[delgarcon]

4 minutes ago, VBF said:

And you don't think that the DWP (a government department) cannot get access to the Passport Office  (a government department) records if they suspect wrongdoing's?

Your faith in the promised privacy is, IMO. a little naïve! 

I don't believe they would because it would be a waste of time. The passport holder is the  the only person that has the arrival and departure records inside the extra pages.

[superal]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), despite mounting criticism, stands by this policy, asserting that "it has been in place for over 70 years."

 

I was at a Managment Training Course a few years ago, and the instructor said that one of the biggest hurdles to progress in the workplace was "But, we've always done it this way!"

 

Remarkably similar standpoint from the DWP! Just because the system has been in place for over 70 years doesn't necessarily mean that it is right or fair.

 

 

Agree and I cannot understand how appeals against the current frozen pensions have never been successful . There are so many wrongs that the DWP defence has little chance of winning , or so you would think . Furthermore the demand should not only be to unfreeze but also to pay the back what has been frozen over the last  few years as the DWP do if a benefit has been wrongly claimed . Smells a bit like the UK Post Office scandal .

[VBF]

7 minutes ago, delgarcon said:

I don't believe they would because it would be a waste of time. The passport holder is the  the only person that has the arrival and departure records inside the extra pages.

Yes but I was replying to a post that said that there's no compulsion to have a PP if you live in UK. That is of course true, BUT if you deny having one AND the DWP suspect you of lying they could than find out and issue some sort of summons. In this instance possibly "freeze" pension payments pro tem.

 

UPDATE

Here is evidence of that from this very thread

https://aseannow.com/topic/1325999-frozen-pension-policy-turns-british-expats-dream-into-a-nightmare/?do=findComment&comment=18873536

 

Edited April 27 by VBF
Update info.

[Chivas]

15 minutes ago, VBF said:

And you don't think that the DWP (a government department) cannot get access to the Passport Office  (a government department) records if they suspect wrongdoing's?

Your faith in the promised privacy is, IMO. a little naïve! 

 

Its beyone comedy gold let alone naive I agree

 

Every time the passport (any nationality) is used its logged automatically......if its not been used than the last immigration entry (wherever) is exactly where the passport holder actually is (obviously)

 

If that other guy says the Phillipines is where he is it will take DWP a few seconds to cross reference that information to realise he's lying

 

(I have every real reason to know exactly just how much information our governments hold on us lol)

 

Edited April 27 by Chivas